Wanting to move back to more CM methods for HS and away from classical

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  • My renewed love for CM is sparked from a conversation I had with a fellow friend who is, like me, not a fan of the classical education’s love of cramming information in, as well as Sonya’s recent blog posts on savoring vs. shoveling and knowing vs. recognizing.

    I love the CM methods and have used them most of the time homeschooling my dd, now about to be a sophmore. We started using MFW in middle school and felt it met our CM ideology well. Now we have just finished 9th grade and looking back over the year I don’t really feel it was CM style.

    Up till this past year we have used Writing Strands/Reading Strands and have had some wonderful book discussions, both from an enjoyment of the book to the literary analysis of how the writer put the story together, how they convey and influence what they want the reader to know about the characters, how they used the setting and mood to influence the reader etc. We have just loved that.

    We have used living books for history till this year. MFW uses some books (I wouldn’t say living books), but also a Notgrass textbook with review questions and some writing assignments. 

    This year was ancient, reading The Illiad, The Odyssey, Gilgamesh. While these are books appropriate for ancient studies, they didn’t feel like living books.

    The writing was not well laid out, in my opinion, as to the expectations or the how to. I just started having my dd write papers last year-mostly essays and she was doing great. This set her back and confused the expectations for writing and the style. We made some modifications later in the year to move back to what we had done previously.

    I have always had people say that CM and classical are almost the same once you get to HS. After this experience, I do not agree. What I need to know is HOW do I implement a CM HS moving forward? I like a mapped out lesson plan, even if it’s a bit loose. My dd likes that as well. 

    I would appreciate feedback from anyone successfully sticking with CM model for HS. Also anyone using MFW for HS and modifying it to be CM style? Hope this makes sense.

    Thanks!

    Julie

     

    my3boys
    Participant

    Hi Julie,

    I have no experience with MFW or the classical method, but just wanted to encourage you in this decision your family has made.  Have you looked at the Free Curriculum Guide here on this site to start making some decisions on what your dd would like to study for next year? Does your state have certain requirements? And, have you looked at Charlotte Mason Help (website)?  There are some great HS suggestions from that site and of course if you search High School on this forum, I’m sure you’ll find some great discussions.

    We are just starting HS next in the Fall with a ds and I’m a bit nervous that I will plan enough to challenge, but not too much to overwhelm.  My ds is not a fast reader but he enjoys reading and discussion following.

    Sorry I didn’t link the discussions for you. I can try to in a bit if you end up not finding any that meet your needs.

    pslively
    Participant

    Barb from Harmony Art Mom blog has a lot of helpful posts about CM and high school and how it all worked out for her family. She also has some lesson plans available for geography, nature study, and art and music. It might be a good place to start your research. You could also look up jimmie’s collage. If I am not mistaken, she recently posted about this topic.

    TailorMade
    Participant

    Hi Julie,

    While we use some Classical memorization tools (especially in the early years,) we are more CM by nature when it comes to homeschooling. The memory work we do is quick practice and sort of acts like a spine/mental timeline for history, science, and other topics. We use living books for real study. 

    It’s certainly possible to move from Classical to CM for highschool. A good list of books, conversation (oral narration and discussion,) and “blue book” type exams (written narration) are CM highschool tools.

    We’re not Shakespeare fans (no rocks, please,) so I have them tackle Julius Caesar either during their study of Rome, or government. Macbeth is studied along the way, too, but that’s it. Other families read all of his plays and act them out in dramatic productions. 

    Basically, it boils down to building strong reading and math skills early on, or in some cases as later as in the case of two of our five DC. Then, help them manage to “eat” a feast of living books during their highschool years. Our older kids keep a BoC, their own Commonplace books (as they are led, not as a mandate,) and study subjects in a similar time frame as some would study textbooks for their highschool “credits.”

    For our older three, I just kinda winged it and had to fill in toward the end with, “Oops! I never had you study this, or that, but there’s still time.” Using suggestions from SCM’s Planning Your CM Education took the mystery out of setting up a path for each of our two younger children. 

    I planned out the rest of our 13yos’s education when he was nearing 12 and got twelve years planned out for his younger sister at the same time. I am having them study Texas history and health & nutrition for a year prior to highschool. Living books and a timeline of events in Texas history are used along with field trips to historical landmarks and museums.

    The Bible, Nourishing Traditions, and other resources like Red Cross CPR classes and possibly a life guarding course are notes I’ve written down for health and nutrition in the possibilities category. We try to use both living books, traditional foods resources, and practical life skills to give them a solid look at how to live a healthy lifestyle.

    I do use IEW methods for writing  after informal grammar with Serl’s Language Lessons.  OMT or Essentials are the only other grammar we use, but it’s a choice left to them at the time on an as needed basis. I think our youngest will have a solid grasp of grammar after Serl’s. I’ll likely just have her write and maybe review w OMT if necessary for entrance type test review if necessary. 

    I have them follow a “Government 101” outline, read source documents, watch some videos, read living books, and listen to lectures to prepare to write essays on the subject. Our younger two will likely have the Uncle Eric series added to their reading lists. 

    For Economics, we like Economics in One Lesson, Godonomics, and other resources. Oh, I have them read On that Day Began Lies during their gov’t/Eco studies. 

    As a family, we enjoy art and music appreciation. During “11th grade,” the kids get season tickets to the symphony. Picture study continues through highschool. Nature journals are not mandatory for them at this age, but kept as they are led to do so. 

    Our children live life outdoors. We have all sorts of animals and, from early on, they learn to care for and train those they consider their own. Fence building/repair, care and feeding, medical attention, and more are a part of everyday at our house. We’re a fresh eggs and raw milk family and our milk cow, Madeleine, think she’s just as human as the rest of us…or does she think we’re bovine? ;0)

    Basically, to pursue a CM highschool education, you must decide to choose life!  It’s about living, loving, and laughing while learning. I’m not sure how to express a written lesson plan other than to stress that the best resource I’ve used to plan it out, feel relieved to “see” how living books can accomplish it all, and see things fall into place easier than winging it is to use SCM’s Planning Your CM Education. Even in those places that we choose a not so CM resource to accomplish a goal, it helped to draw the picture of the education I wanted our children to be free to pursue. 

    Hope that helps a bit. 

    Blessings,

    Becca<><

    Becca, I love your suggestions. Even made a copy of your post to stick in my teacher planner!

    Also, Food Renegade has both a middle and high school Health course based on Nourishing Traditions. Just a fyi to anyone interested.

    ~Rosie

    TailorMade
    Participant

    Yes! I’ve seen Food Renegade in the past. Thanks so much for reminding me that I need to get this for the fall! Whew! I’m excited to use it. Have you used it?

    TailorMade
    Participant

    Ok. But, do I really need to order FR? Is it just a lesson plan for using NT? I’d rather outline it myself according to the order we’d want to pursue it and just gather the books that are referenced…i.e. Sugar Blues, etc.

    jotawatt
    Participant

    Hi, I’m pretty new to this forum but wanted to respond to this post because I’m in a similar boat!  We did MFW’s Ancient History this year with my 10th and 9th graders.  I liked a lot of it, but all year I kept going to SCM’s website, and reading, and kind of drooling.  I figured we had already started down the other road and couldn’t switch, but the more I heard about Charlotte Mason and read her works, the more I wanted to incorporate it.  I did incorporate quite a bit of it into my younger kids’ schooling, but it was more difficult with the older kids in AHL.  I love how it was all laid out for me, but that ended up being a weakness as well!  I guess we can’t have it both ways, lol.

    Long story short, we did decide to make the switch to using SCM.  It really helped to go to Sonya Schafer’s workshops at Teach Them Diligently, and to talk to her about our specific situation and how to get in what my oldest needs for his last 2 years of school.  He has Asperger’s Syndrome, and I can see from how it’s helped my younger children that my oldest will stand to gain so, so much from using CM’s methods.  I’ll probably have him do lots of his narrations orally, because he struggles with his speech.  I am so looking forward to the next few years!      

    Becca, I do have the middle school ebook, it came with a spring bundle I purchased from GNOWFLIGLINS. It looks like it is more than an outline. It has copywork, word find, and a coloring page, as well as the outline. Not sure about the high school curriculum. She has samples on the site, but I really couldn’t tell too much from them.

    If you lived closer you could come over and see the ebook and I could buy some of your raw milk from your bovine girl! 🙂

    ~Rosie

    Thank you all for your encouragement! I am really excited to make the switch back. I talked with my dd and she agreed that this year has been push, push, push. My dh also said he has felt this has been one of the most stressed years he has witnesses. Thinking back on the year some more, I realize that I have been pushed out She was so busy getting stuff done that we didn’t feel we had time to then look everything over. I am in favor of her taking on the main responsibility for her education, but I still want to be looking over her work and discussing things with her.

    I have looked at Beautiful Feet Medieval for next year (not sure yet, just looking). That covers history and literature (no writing). So if I’m understanding you all, we could just switch back to Writing Strands/Reading Strands. Then choose a few books for Bible, or a study, continue with what’s working for science and math etc. I guess I also feel like I am back in the driver’s seat for choosing curriculum for electives. I have wanted to use “Whatever Happened to Penny Candy?” for economics.

    I have more reading and research to do, but I think we will definitely take the leap back over to CM. I already have all the MFW stuff for next year, but I can sell that off and start over. 

    Julie `  </p>

    missceegee
    Participant

    Any chance you can attend the Preschool through High School the Charloote Mason Way by Sonya Shafer from SCM in Jacksonville, FL in August? I’m sure it would be helpful.

    I live in TX. I asked about that being a CD or DVD or written planning tool and this will be the first time for SCM to do this, so they will be recording it there. Might be able to get a copy. I wish I could attend.

    Julie

    I am considering CM for my son who is 14. I’ll be following this thread as we’re moving away from “Tapestry of Grace”.

    We have settled on EpiKardia Brit Lit and a combination of Uncle Eric books with some other living history books. We looked at Tapestry of Grace as an alternative and Veritas, but just never jumped on that. Contrary to what I have heard, classical and CM are not the same, even in high school. My dd 15 is super excited to start school this fall with these curriculums. My plan is to have her read some inspirational stories for her spiritual growth rather than a credit for bible. Books like “I Dared to Call Him Father,” “Green Leaf in Drought Times,” and maybe “How Should We Then Live,” during our ancient Rome study. She’s reading “Do Hard Things” for the second time and really enjoying it asking for more books like that. I want to have time for those during the school year too.

    Super excited to have some great discussions mixed in with some writing, but on a more relaxed pace, picking and chosing how much we cover and what we read. I think it’s hard enough to keep these years under control (not cramming in too much) just with all the options available let alone the push with the classical style (IMHO).

    Hope you find a good fit for your son :  )

    Julie

    Jackie Betancourt
    Participant

    Hi Julie! I am in a similar situation with my dd in 9th. We began AHL in early July, but it just isn’t working for her. Some say to wait it out and try and “tweak” it, but I’m afraid we’ll look back in 6 months and wish we had made the switch. Well, we ended up selling it off and have ordered SCM Module 3 for History/Bible/ Geography, since we did Ancient History with Mystery of History last year. Did the curricula you finally chose fit into a more CM learning style or Classical? You are absolutely right, Classical and CM are definitely NOT the same! I would love to read what you ended up with total. Thanks again for sharing, your experience has really been an encouragement to me!

     

    Blessings, Jackie

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