Truthquest question

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • Evergreen
    Member

    I’ve enjoyed reading people’s great reviews of Truthquest, and how powerfully it’s helped their kids in facing big questions once they’re out on their own. I have read some of Michelle’s thoughts on the TQ Yahoo message group, and am impressed with her well-thought out, articulate take on things. I see TQ is recommended by AO, and yet I have a question about how it meshes with CM philosophy. Here’s the thing; I haven’t read all of CM’s books, but I was under the impression from what I’ve read and learned that we’re not supposed to make the connections for the kids, and show them how everything fits together, but that they’re supposed to make these connections as they read and study through the years, integrating their Bible and faith knowledge with what they’re reading and patterns they see through history. Am I right about this?

    If so, how does TQ fit in to this, with pointing things out for the kids (the big beliefs), and leading them in this area? If I’m mistaken in either of these assumptions, feel free to point it out!

    Blessings,

    Aimee

    momto2blessings
    Participant

    Good question.  I know I need to be careful myself with this….I can have a tendency to want the kids to ‘get’ what *I* think is most important:)  I’m currently reading “When Children Love to Learn” and a recent reading really surprised me.  I’m still learning about CM and I’ve had this idea that kids should simply narrate to show what they’ve learned about a lesson and that I should be pretty hands off and let them make their own connections.  I do think it’s true that they need to connect things themselves. The book said, ‘don’t chew up the ideas yourself and hand them over half-digested to the child. Let them have direct access to the source.” It also says, ‘the educator must carefully plan and prepare lessons that provide varied and abundant sustenance.’ 

    What surprised me was the example of a 30 min. history lesson on Alexander the Great for 8 and 9 yo’s. It’s rather long….but the 5 steps in the teacher’s prepared lesson are:

    1) Begin by connecting Alexander the Great with the time of Demosthenes, of whom the class has been reading recently.

    2) Draw from them some account of the times in which Alexander  lived and of Philip of Macedon.

    3) Arouse interest in Alexander by the story of the taming of Bucephalus, which must be read, discussed, and then narrated.

    4) Ask the students what is meant by a hero.  (then had examples of character qualities of heroes)

    5) Recapitulate Step 4 by means of questions.

    I admit I felt like a poor teacher when I read this….I don’t often put this much effort into preparing a lesson. And they had examples like this for composers, phonics, etc. lessons, too!  Who has that much time?! 

    Others please correct me if I’m wrong, but my thoughts are that we should let kids go straight to direct sources and not always tell them what to think.  Let them connect w/what’s important to them and validate that. But it’s also o.k. to share w/them biblical worldview, etc. ideas from living sources. I would consider TQ a ‘living’ source…Michelle is passionate about history and her guides are not twaddly or textbooky. Francis Schaeffer is probably the main expert I would want my kids to learn from on culture and biblical worldview and it would certainly be considered CM-ish to let kids read his works and connect w/him and form their opinions…so why not let them read Michelle Miller’s works, connect w/her, and and learn from her as well?  Just my .02….I appreciate the qu. because I hadn’t really thought about it before!!!  I’d love to hear what others think.  Blessings, Gina

    Evergreen
    Member

    Gina, that’s very interesting, thanks for sharing all that. If those are indeed CM’s sort of plans for a lesson, then yes, she did much more than I think I generally am led to believe I should be doing for a CM education. I’d sort of been given the idea I should read (or let them read), have them narrate and get myself out of the way; I’ve worried that I supply too much information, but they really do need context and how else can the great discussion happen if we don’t discuss? It makes sense, really – her methods were designed to be used in schools as well as home situations, and the teachers didn’t simply hand students books and wait for them to read and narrate, right? Given that sample lesson, it sounds very much like what Michelle Miller does with Truthquest History.

    Thanks for that great food for thought. I too would love to hear what others think.

    Blessings,

    Aimee

    binky
    Participant

    Has anyone actually meshed truth quest with SCM modules. I love truth quest but I also love SCM and would like to use both. Is this way too much or can you pick and choose? Maybe if you combine them you will spend all day on history and no time for the other subjects. Just thinking out loud and I guess a little off topic. Sorry! I like that I can look up a topic and find lots of books to choose from in the TQ guides.

    Sonya Shafer
    Moderator

    I think what is meant by “connecting” in the sample lesson is the idea that each lesson needs to be connected to the previous one from that book, so when the child remembers one aspect, he pulls the whole mental thread from his mental “well.” This is the pre-reading review/introduction step, which we include in the history handbooks.

    Here is Charlotte’s much better explanation.

    You want a child to remember? Then secure his whole attention, the fixed gaze of his mind, as it were, upon the fact to be remembered; then he will have it: by a sort of photographic (!) process, that fact or idea is ‘taken’ by his brain, and when he is an old man, perhaps, the memory of it will flash across him.

    Recollection and the Law of Association.—But it is not enough to have a recollection flash across one incidentally; we want to have the power of recalling at will: and for this, something more is necessary than an occasional act of attention producing a solitary impression. Supposing, for instance, that by good teaching you secure the child’s attention to the verb avoir, he will remember it; that is to say, some infinitely slight growth of brain tissue will record and retain that one French verb. But one verb is nothing; you want the child to learn French, and for this you must not only fix his attention upon each new lesson, but each must be so linked into the last that it is impossible for him to recall one without the other following in its train. The physical effect of such a method appears to be that each new growth of the brain tissue is, so to speak, laid upon the last; that is, to put it figuratively, a certain tract of the brain may be conceived of as being overlaid with French. This is to make a practical use of that law of association of ideas of which one would not willingly become the sport; and it is the neglect of this law which invalidates much good teaching. The teacher is content to produce a solitary impression which is only recalled as it is acted upon by a chance suggestion; whereas he should forge the links of a chain to draw his bucket out of the well. Probably the reader may have heard, or heard of, a Dr Pick, who grounded a really philosophical system of mnemonics on these two principles of attention and association. Whatever we may think of his application of it, the principle he asserted is the right one.

    Every Lesson must recall the Last.—Let every lesson gain the child’s entire attention, and let each new lesson be so interlaced with the last that the one must recall the other; that again, recalls the one before it, and so on to the beginning.

    No Limit to the Recording Power of the Brain.—But the ‘lightly come, lightly go’ of a mere verbal memory follows no such rules. The child gets his exercise ‘by heart,’ says it off like a parrot, and behold, it is gone; there is no record of it upon the brain at all. To secure such a record, there must be time; time for that full gaze of the mind we call attention, and for the growth of the brain tissue to the new idea. Given these conditions, there appears to be no limit of quantity to the recording power of the brain. Except in this way: a girl learns French, and speaks it fairly well; by the time she is a grandmother she has forgotten it entirely, has not a word left. When this is the case, her French has been disused; she has not been in the habit of reading, hearing, or speaking French from youth to age. Whereby it is evident that, to secure right-of-way to that record of French imprinted on her brain, the path should have been kept open by frequent goings and comings.

    But Links of Association a Condition of Recollection.—To acquire any knowledge or power whatsoever, and then to leave it to grow rusty in a neglected corner of the brain, is practically useless. Where there is no chain of association to draw the bucket out of the well, it is all the same as if there were no water there. As to how to form these links, every subject will suggest a suitable method. The child has a lesson about Switzerland to-day, and one about Holland to-morrow, and the one is linked to the other by the very fact that the two countries have hardly anything in common; what the one has, the other has not. Again, the association will be of similarity, and not of contrast. In our own experience we find that colours, places, sounds, odors recall persons or events; but links of this sensuous order can hardly be employed in education. The link between any two things must be found in the nature of the things associated (Vol. 1, ,pp. 158, 159).

    One more point that stood out to me from the sample lesson is that the questions to be asked are discussion-type questions, not direct questions on the content. Discussion questions following a narration are allowed and encouraged. You may want to read the entire lesson plan; it’s taken from Vol. 3, pp. 334-336.

    my3boys
    Participant

    I think we did pretty good without a guide these last 2 years (for history) but I’ll be so glad to use one this coming year. We tried to discuss (and we did in our own way) but I need the reminders and everything else that goes along with the guides. So, thank you SCM team for creating them, can’t wait for this coming school year!

    momto2blessings
    Participant

    Thanks, Sonya! That makes sense. 

    Binky, meshing SCM w/TQ wasn’t hard for me last year because using SCM book selections helped me to narrow the large TQ list and not get overburdened w/too many books.  It’s hard for me to narrow…so many sound wonderful:)  We didn’t use the SCM guide. Next year I’d like the planning done for me, so I plan to buy the SCM guide and just jot a note of what page to read in the TQ commentary at appropriate times. We’re doing ancients, so I don’t think it will be too much since a lot of it is bible time. I’ll also jot in a few TQ ‘don’t miss’ books, I’m sure, and some movies.  I’m hoping I’m not tempted to tweak so much it’s like planning myself again:)  But the SCM guides are so reasonable I think it will be worth it.  Blessings, Gina

    P.S.  Last year, we did history as a family (me reading commentary/occasional spine material or living book) 4-5x/week for 20-30 min.  My 12 yo read SCM history readers 4x/wk and my 9yo read SCM history readers 3x/week. They read 1-2 ch. per reading.

    binky
    Participant

    Thanks, Gina! I enjoy reading your posts. Will this be your first year using the SCM guides? How long have you been using SCM?

    Bookworm
    Participant

    Gina makes some really good points here.  This is a good question, and one that really gets at exactly what we do in a lesson.  I’m glad to see thinking on this.

    Yes, we do NOT want to make all connections for our children.  We don’t spell out every little detail for them and tell them exactly what to think.  We don’t have to slavishly correlate every little detail down to chronological order and make everything “fit” perfectly together.  We don’t color in our children’s paintings ourselves.  🙂

    However, this does NOT mean that every lesson is taught in strict isolation from everything else and all context.  We can draw out a basic FRAMEWORK for our children–help them with a basic OUTLINE–and then they color it in.  In my opinion, Michelle’s commentary and questions (you’ll notice she asks LOTS of questions–her intent is to get us thinking, not tell us exactly WHAT to think) are very helpful in providing that basic framework that the kids can then flesh out and fill in.  One thing I have done in the past is hold off on reading Michelle’s commentary right away, and begin to ask the children what THEY think first, to see if they are beginning to apply the big questions on their own.  Then we can read and enjoy the commentary and discuss.  (This would be for children who are used to the basic approach, obviously, not for the second day using TQ.) 

    We need a balance in our lessons.  Some lessons may not need a whole  lot of advance prep.  Some do!  I do think that the idea that CM lessons are NO PREP, that we ONLY hand a child a book and leave them on their own until narration time, is a common CM fallacy and one that I always ask when someone tells me their kids are not retaining as much as they want.  Retention goes up when we can embed the reading into what they already know.  We don’t want to totally do this FOR them, but they do need some basic info/basic framework at times.  This is where things like timelines/Books of Centuries are so critical. 

    TailorMade
    Participant

    The CM information that Sonya shared on “Recollection and the Law of Association” made me think of the Associative Law in mathematics. 1+2=3 and 3-2=1. That’s the way our history studies seem to work with the combination of timeline study/memorization and reading/discussing wonderful books. And, as Bookworm pointed out, its a balance for which I strive. We look at events backward and forward First, next, results. Where are we now? How do we trace back to a starting point? Cause/effect. (BTW, this works well in other subjects, too, like science and (as the CM quote suggests) foreign languages. Artists and Composers are studied this way when using good resources to plan/study. So, resources like SCM & TQH seem to be tools that basically aid the thought process. They don’t necessarily think for you, or your children. I am thankful for thoughtful people that share their observations for consideration. So Sonya’s and Michelle’s guides basically seem like discussion question brainstorming starting points more than answer keys.

    Hth,

    Becca<><

    Evergreen
    Member

    Thank you so much for all this wonderful input, this is a fantastic discussion. I’ve been told, at a CM study group I attend, different information from what I’m hearing here, but what you are all sharing is making perfect sense, particularly in light of what I know to be true already from my years of teaching my kids. Thank you, Sonya, for taking the time to input Charlotte’s teachings on this, and for directing me to Volume 3 to read the rest – I’ll be pulling it out tonight!

    Blessings,

    Aimee

    missceegee
    Participant

    I think a simple, yet big key to this is what types of questions are being asked of the children. Simple workbook type, fill-in-the blank questions are not going to lead us where we want to go. And we certainly don’t want to interrupt our kids’ narrations to ask such things. Big thinking, discussion type questions after narration are a different thing altogether. Reviewing those big thinking questions and thoughts as we connect the lessons has been a huge part of our success. When I have failed to do this regularly, our retention suffers. The framework is very important.

    ETA: I’m looking forward to adding the TQ commentary to our lessons beginning next year. I think it will add a terrific dimension to our studies. Now to hold myself back from wanting to do it all!

    momto2blessings
    Participant

    Such great food for thought from everyone. I’m always learning something.  I love this forum!!!   Wish you all could be here in town for a CM study group or co-op:)

    Binky, next year will be our first year using the SCM guides.  We’ve been studying American History and the guides weren’t completed yet when we would have needed them.  I’ve also been hesitant to order another guide after I used another curriculum’s…I always felt behind, busywork, etc.  But I really like the looks of SCM’s, esp. how it’s planned out by day rather than by week…just do the next day.  I know I”ll always have additional books I’ll want to add, and I’ll add the TQ commentary, but the guide seems to the point and not time-consuming, so I don’t anticipate it being too much.  But haven’t used it yet:)

    We’ve used SCM history for 2 1/2 yrs. Not exactly as written….but most of it.  We’ve enjoyed the books and being on the same history cycle…which is why we switched from our last CM curriculum.  HTH some:) Gina

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • The topic ‘Truthquest question’ is closed to new replies.