The true name of the Messiah

I found this article:

Yahshua, Yehoshua, Y’shua, Yeshua, Iesous, Iesus Or Jesus: The Sacred Name or True Name

I did not read the whole article but found this part interesting:

The Greek Iesous then got transliterated into Latin as Iesu, and then into Old English as Jesus, but initially the J was at that time, still pronounced like the German J, which was pronounced with more of a ‘Y’ sound. This is the way that it still is spoken in Germany today. Over time, the J sound eventually began to harden into sounding more like the the French J which is where the Modern English J originated from. The end result is the current English pronunciation of Jesus.

God knows who I am referring to when I say “Jesus” – the One who is called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasing Father, The Prince of Peace, The Word who was with God, and WAS God, was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Okay, I have studied biblical Hebrew at a graduate level. I am not sure quite what your question is getting at. It seems to confuse two things–the name Jesus and the name of the Lord revealed to Moses.

Jesus is of course an English version coming to us through Greek. It is the same name in Hebrew as Joshua and would be pronounced Yeshua. But while we do call on the name of Jesus, it is really the person we are calling on and through whom God views us. I don’t think He cares that we use an anglicized version of the name. We tend not to name our kids Jesus but this is not true in other cultures (I know particularly of hispanic cultures). It is just a person’s name. Though of course the person was more than a person.

The name of God as revealed to Moses in the OT is a different story. The correct pronunciation of this name has been lost. This is because Hebrews (and later Jews) were so careful about not taking it in vain that they wouldn’t say it. Originally Hebrew was written only with consonants. The consonants in the name are YHWH. But when Jews read this name they would not say the name but say the Hebrew word for “lord” which is adonai. So when they added vowels, they put in the vowels from adonai with the original consonants. Which actually makes an unpronouncable combination in Hebrew which has rules about consonant-vowel combinations. But it was just there to remind them to say “the lord” (ie adonai) instead if trying to say the name. Most of our bibles translate the name as “The Lord” with capitals when it appears. Yahweh may be a good attempt at what it sounded like but we don’t know for sure and I believe the Hebrew consonants themselves changed their pronunciations over time as well. Jehovah is also a version of thsi name that came to us via German in which the letter “j” is pronounced as we pronounce “y”.

Does all this help? I think the important thing is that we have a relationship with God. He calls Himself lots of things and we can use those designations for Him. I don’t think we need to know this secret name. The power of God is in the relationship. I am happy to answer more questions though if I haven’t made myself clear.

It is true that early English did not have a letter J, nor a few other letters and punctuation we use now. It also didn’t have standardized spelling and it was not unusual to see the same word spelled in different ways from different authors. This really doesn’t set apart the way “Jesus” is spelled or pronounced as special or mystical. It’s just how the English language has evolved over time, and continues to do so. Other words and names were spelled differently as well. It just happens that back then the letter “J” had not been introduced yet.

It’s not unlike how people in other cultures or from areas with differnet languages or dialects pronounce the same words differently and use different letters to represent certain sounds. For example, the way a double “L” is pronounced differently in Spanish than English (think “tortilla”) or the way the letter “W” is pronounced like our English letter “V” in German. That’s just how language developed among localized populations.

Just for fun, here are a few passages from the 1611 KJV. It’s not only different from how we spell words in common use today, but it’s also vastly different from the KJV of today. Punctuation was also different with no quote marks and spaces around both sides of a colon.

In the beginning God created the Heauen, and the Earth. And the earth was without forme, and voyd, and darknesse was vpon the face of the deepe : and the Spirit of God mooued vpon the face of the waters. (Gen 1:1)

The same day went Iesus out of the house, and sate by the sea side. And great multitudes were gathered together vnto him, so that hee went into a ship, and sate, and the whole multitude stood on the shore. And hee spake many things vnto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went foorth to sow. (Matt 13:1-3)

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I haue workes : shew mee thy faith without thy workes, and I will shew thee my faith by my workes. (James 2:18)

Studie to shewe thy selfe approued vnto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly diuiding the word of trueth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Don’t you just love the double vowels and swapping of “V” and “U”? My favored it probably “mooued” (“moved”).

As you see, what we know in modern English as “Jesus” was spelled “Iesus”. That’s a transliteration of the greek word “Ἰησοῦς” using our roman alphabet, which comes out “Iēsous”.

As others have mentioned, it is true that the Jews of the Old Testament did not speak or write God’s special name. I do find it interesting that God never specifically commanded that, though. I have to wonder if that was part of the pharisaical system (going above and beyond God’s commands) that Jesus often condemend in His public teaching.

But even so, keep in mind that the word “God” or “Lord” that we use now is not His special name anyway. For example, what we often have translated as “God” is the Greek word “θεός”, which when transliterated into our alphabet is “theos”.

And “Jesus” is a totally different name. His name was not left unspoken or held as special at the time. In fact, it was a common name held by other people. The New Testament writers used it freely, many of them who were of a Jewish background themselves. They also used the words that we translate to the English “God” and “Lord” freely. (Of course, those were the Greek words at the time of that writing.)

You might then wonder about what the Bible says about the name of Jesus being above every other name if was so common. The phrase we have translated “the name of” carries with it much more than a particular set of sounds or letters. It’s all about the authority and power behind that name. So even though other people had, and still have, the name “Jesus” it is the power and authority of the one and only redeemer Jesus that is above every other name. The first chapter of the book of Hebrews begins a detailed argument about how the name of Jesus is superior because of who Jesus is. 

I love how some of this gets put together in Hebrews 4:14-16. The book of Hebrews was written specifically to Jewish Christians and freely uses the words we translate to “God” and “Jesus”. And that beautiful last sentence of this passage tells us to draw near to the throne of grace with confidence. As I understand that phrase, it carries the idea that God has given us permission to approach His thone and speak freely.

Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

By the way, no offense to others who may hold different views. These are my conclusions as I’ve studied and I enourage you to study it for yourself.

I just saw this.  I’ll ask my husband what he knows.  He speaks and studies Hebrew daily, although he’ll tell you he doesn’t know much (he really does!).  He’s working swings this week so won’t be able to get back to you until tomorrow morning/afternoon. 

Heather

I still think 2 different things are being talked about here. The name of your savior is Jesus. There is another name of God which He revelaed to Moses. It doens;t matter how much you have studied it–no on knows the pronunciation for sure. That has been lost for the reasons I explained in my previous post.

Names are important in the Bible. God has lots of names. He has revealed many of them to us and each tells us a little somethign about His character. However He has allowed the name we translate as “the LORD” (or Yahweh or Jehovah) to be lost. But He has given us what we need to know of Him.

Forgive the length in advance (everyone knows how wordy I am!)

What your speaking about exists within what is referred to as The Sacred Name movement. It’s been around since the early 20th Cen., I believe.

I’d like to direct you to an article, rather cerebral so make sure you concentrate, that is a good and thorough study on this topic: http://www.torahresource.com/EnglishArticles/Sacred%20Name%20parts%201-3.pdf

I am far from where I want to be in Hebrew and look forward to crazy4boys’s dh to chime in, though I’d like to mention that regarding the Four Letter Name (tetragrammaton), it’s YHVH in it’s actual written form; there’s not a W in Hebrew. However, SOME people have rendered Biblical Hebrew VAV with a w sound, hence Yahveh or Yahweh. Nebby’s right when she says it’s hard to know for sure, though the TaNaKh is the most meticulously copied parchment through the centuries. If a Sofer makes a mistake on G-d’s Name, then he must start all over again; also there is counting involved to make sure all the letters are there. HaShem is the traditional replacement for saying G-d’s Name given at Sinai, meaning just “The Name”; it’s very respectful thing to do, esp. since we don’t know for sure. Adonai (L-rd) is the other one that is used, too.

As others have mentioned, it is true that the Jews of the Old Testament did not speak or write God’s special name. I do find it interesting that God never specifically commanded that, though. I have to wonder if that was part of the pharisaical system (going above and beyond God’s commands) that Jesus often condemend in His public teaching.

I think that started at the Dispersion into Babylon and it continues to this day. It would have been part of the Traditions of the Elders, as Talmudic Law had not been solidified yet (not till the 2nd cen.). Although it’s true that G-d doesn’t specifically command you to honor His Name like that, it stems from the Third Commandment and in the warning of Exodus 20:7. It is not a contradiction of Scripture and not a legalistic action; therefore it wouldn’t fall under Yeshua’s condemnation of extra-biblical traditions. I believe we need more of that type honor of His Name in today’s culture, not for mystical reasons or superiority reasons, but just to honor Him rooted in His Greatness and the spirit behind the third commandment and His admonition to keep His Name honored properly.

Jehovah is a miss-translation, IMO. Like said above by Nebby, they applied the vowels of Adonai to the characters of the tetragrammaton. I do not use Jehovah.

It is the mysticism of Kabbalah that gives The Name (HaShem) some sort of special power in saying it; hence the story of Golem from the Middle Ages Prague of a mystical creature being created to protect the people from persecution by building it from dirt/mud and writing the tetragrammaton on it and speaking the four letters over it, I believe 3x, (an attempt at the recreation of G-d breathing life into Adam) and then it comes alive.

Being a Messianic Jewish family, we stress the importance of the culture of the Scripture and G-d’s Language-Hebrew. Hebrew has much more depth than Greek and Latin translations; names and their meanings do have great import in the Bible and we think it’s honoring G-d and getting closer to His Message, since He chose to reveal it through the Hebrews; even though the New Covenant was written in Greek (except they do have some of Matthew in Hebrew), they thought in Hebrew; it’s not superior, just common sense. There’s a big difference between the Western way of thinking and the Eastern way; therefore there has been much misunderstanding when the Good News and the Life of Our L-rd is stripped from that Hebraic context. We think His Names are very Important; in Hebraic thought they tell the character of the person or even mission, the meanings are far more in depth than English counterparts. I don’t have a problem with an anglicized version, however, it does miss something and I would hope that in whatever language one calls upon G-d, then it will be as close to the original as possible. Of course, He knows when one is calling HIm by looking at their heart if they don’t know a language to use; after that they can be instructed on who He is from His Word, He who distinguishes Himself in very specific ways.

True, Hebrew has no vowels; they are spoken but not written. Even in Israel today, in Modern Hebrew, there aren’t vowels in the newspapers, on the street signs and definitely not in the Torah Scrolls (Biblical Hebrew) that are read during a Bar/Bat Mitzvah and in a regular service. The vowels are used in the learning process, but ultimately the vowels are not used. The name given by G-d through His Angel to Miriam was Yeshua (or Y’shua), NOT Yahsua. A name like that doesn’t exist; I bring it up because many in the Sacred Name movement use that, but Hebrew Language scholars have confirmed that that is a wrong rendering.

The Hebrew letters for Yeshua are yod-shin-vav-ayin. The vav functions as a vowel here- an “oo” sounding one. No last name except that Hebrew name passed down from his earthly father, son of Yoseph; Messiah is a title, from Mashiach meaning Anointed One; His title was better translated into the Greek and English that His actual Hebrew Name was.

Agreed, Yeshua was a very common name in the 1st Cen.

G-d has chosen to reveal himself (his character) by many names and Y’shua is one of them. I do believe He should be called by His correct name if known and other languages should derive their translation or transliteration from that source, not Jesus, if possible, IMO. However, I don’t think there is a mystical or extra-spiritual quality in doing it, I just think it’s important because it’s G-d’s Character and His revelations of Himself to us. If you use Jesus, I think you’re still “getting through”, so-to-speak; I don’t want any one here to misunderstand me.

I think you’ve gotten great advice from those here. If you’d like more resources for the Hebrew language and/or other resources to dig into, then PM me. My heart was called to be the same as Ruth ( I’m not Jewish nor have a become Jewish) and if Adonai is calling you in that manner, to go deeper into the Hebraic nature of Messiah and His teachings as you are one who is “grafted in”-Romans 11- then perhaps I can help. There’s a lot of misinformation out there that will take you down a variety of paths.

Blessings in your search,

Rachel