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Teaching textbooks, multiplication facts problems
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I only have one child doing teaching textbooks, the rest are doing Math U See, and so far I’m not impressed with how they have taught multiplication facts, but maybe I wrongly assumed she wouldn’t need extra time outside of TT3? I am ending up spending so much time with her, way more than the MUS kids, trying to fix the holes she has with multiplication facts (leading to problems with finding area, factors, etc.). I looked back at some lessons and it seems they show her the facts one time in the lecture, then expect her to remember them throughout the lessons. Maybe I’m just expecting too much from TT?
Do those of you that use TT supplement/drill facts, etc? If so, how do you know when you need to drill/supplement, and then do you stop with the TT until they have mastered them?
Thank you
I’m having the same issue with my ds using Math 4, also our first time using TT. It did take him quite a while to get the addition and subtraction facts down, so I am not surprised. We are doing extra drills online using mathisfun.com. There is another site, xtramath.com, that you may want to check out, as well. It keeps track of progress through the facts table. Even if you don’t want to use an online option, it would probably be good to spend some extra time working on those facts. I’m seriously considering not using TT next year. However, I had let ds choose from several math options I was looking at (he is almost 11), so not sure how that will go. Math has been our biggest challenge in finding something that works for him.
Melissa
Yes. Two of mine already had their multiplication facts down before they started. The 3rd is learning them through TT, not RightStart like the others. We’ve paused for a bit and are working on memorizing them better then will pick TT back up. We had to pause in RS as well to help them really get them down. The overall reduction of stress and time has been so lovely that we’ll be sticking with TT, even if we have to pause now and then for additional help.
We use http://www.xtramath.org for facts practice no matter which curriculum the kids are using.
We use xtramath.org, cardstock flashcards and a brilliant little handheld thing called a Flashmaster for all math facts practise. For us it didn’t matter whether it MUS or TT…my kids still needed to put in the time to memorize their multiplication tables and all the facts.
FWIW, I have viewed the lectures on multiplication from BOTH MUS and TT. In terms of presenting what multiplication really means and how to understand it conceptually…the two programs and their respective ways of presenting made little difference to my boys. I have one boy who found the MUS presentation quite muddled, but he still got the idea behind multiplication. My other DS saw only the TT lecture on conceptual understanding of multiplication and he got the without problem. The initial conceptual understanding made no difference in the end though; what HAD to happen for six months afterwards was daily drill to memorize. So that’s what we did (and still do!)
The only other point that might be worth knowing is the fact that in TT, after the initial lecture on conceptual understanding you go through a new multiplication table EACH day/lecture. So if you are doing math every day, your kid is getting the ENTIRE set of tables in about a 2 week period. They spiral through all previously “learned” facts daily (I say “learned” because clearly it wouldn’t yet be memorized) but certainly, without extra practise I think it would take a VERY mathy kid to get all the multiplication facts memorized with only the TT material. And yes, I do think that TT could do a favour to parents and point this out so that parents are prepared and know that they should schedule in extra drill time.
The fact that TT requires the extra drill didn’t seem a fussy point to me in the least – again, because my kids also needed tons of extra drill, worksheets, flashcards etc when they were on MUS. We finished Alpha, then Beta, and still had very few of the facts truly (instant recall) memorized. Maybe that’s just us, though.
HTH! The good news is that with xtramath.org (which is free), other free online resources and the simple use of flashcards every day, this situation is pretty easily to deal with.
Blessings, Angie
PS – like crazy4boys above, we took a pause (2-3 weeks maybe?) in doing TT daily during the time we were first working to memorize x/facts. After the initial multiplication memorizing “blitz” we went back to daily TT and doing drills on xtramath and via flashcards every 2nd day or so.
Thanks everyone. We have used xtramath before, and it caused grief because even though they know the correct answer(i checked many times) they were bumping the wrong numbers on the keypad, or just can’t find them fast enough, so they couldn’t ever progress which made them dread xtramath.
I guess MUS hasn’t caused us such a problem because through learning the skip counting first, they have transitioned nicely into the multiplication, although I’m remembering I did do Times Tales with my son when he was just stuck on the 8s and 9s.
School was just really hectic today with the 3 older ones needing me much more than usual for math help/spelling, etc. and then the 3 younger ones bickering so much today for some reason! So I think it was just frustrating to find she is so behind in the TT, not to mention she’s the only child that gets a horrible attitude when it comes to math, basically just shuts down about it and will end up having to do it all day long just to finish one problem with a cheerful heart (not TT, back when she did MUS or flashcards). So it’s back to the flashcards we go:)
Another thing I did with my first that he enjoyed was to make memory match cards for each set of multiplication facts, 8×9 on one card, 72 on the other, etc. http://www.multiplication.com is a good website too because I can pick the facts they need to work on, and there are a lot of different games. Thanks again for all the thoughts
Angelina, so if the kids are going through the whole set of facts in 2 weeks, some of them might not do very well on the lessons, and I’ve always had her redo hers if they are less than 90%, So do you have yours just keep redoing the lessons until they get the facts or do they just keep the bad scores and keep pushing through? Thanks
At the risk of causing everyone to gasp in shock… I actually let them reference the math multiplication chart to just look up the answer! This might sound completely strange, but after looking ahead in the lessons I knew that having multiplication tables memorized at that very moment was not going to make or break the next series of topics/skills being learned. So we did both at once — worked on memorization alongside moving ahead. And you know what? Having them look up the answer THAT often motivated them to get it memorized. To be honest, I think it might be kind of similar to the CM philosophy on spelling…if you put forth/see a wrong spelling you will forever have your memory of the right spelling slightly compromised. If you are doing your daily math and you don’t have a way to verify that 6×7=42 and you wonder whether it might be 44…and you battle it out in your mind….you might always have “that one” confused a little. But having a reference chart right there beside you eliminates the confusion. Similarly, whenever they ask me the answer to a multiplication fact I tell them immediately (and by golly, I sure have gotten stronger on my times tables, LOL)
Another one you might try given that your kids don’t like xtramath (and I’m guessing won’t love other computer based programs) is CalcuLadder…You print off a sheet or two for every week or so, and just photocopy – it’s really easy because they do the same sheet several times; the entire drill program is structured in patterns to help with retention. I had one kid who loved it (because he’s okay with handwriting) and another son who didn’t love it because he complained of an aching hand at the end of each drill.
There are other people on the forum using another popular pencil/paper format (Math Facts Now?). Christie maybe?
I used Rapid Recall from Little Giant Steps for dd13 to +-x/ facts. DS9 has used it for +-x so far. It was wonderful. I simply like the idea of xtramath and flashmaster for occ. review.
Gasp! Just kidding, only a chuckle. The chart might be a good idea for her, and you make a good point about the spelling not being seen incorrectly, it doesn’t do any good to enter the same wrong product over and over in the math lesson! Thanks
My younger son is doing TT3 right now. We’re doing multiplication facts every day, on top of his regular math. So far we use:
-Timez Attach (it’s a little video game that requires you do to multiplication facts to conquer the monster. My 100% boy loves this)
-Flashmaster
-Math Facts bottle tops (that I saw on Pinterest and made)
-drills with me, where I’ll teach him shortcuts I know
-him reviewing his multiplication chart
Although I don’t like to use things like “video games” to learn, I have to say that Timez Attack is working very well for him. He looks forward to it and is motivated to learn his facts.
Thanks for the idea about Xtra Math. I’ll have to check that out. (Why do all these “learning” programs spell things incorrectly? Xtra? Timez? Just a pet peeve of mine.)
So a follow-up question, have you drilled addition/subtraction facts also all the way through TT? Since I’m not used to the spiral approach, I never know what she’s learning when, or when I need to be drilling things like that. I can’t imagine having all 6 of my kids in TT and trying to keep up with figuring out when to do those things. At least with MUS (even though it takes a lot of my time) I know when they need extra practice in certain areas.
No. Since it starts in grade/level 3 my kids had their +/- memorized before they started. We use RightStart for the earlier years. The one currently in TT3 did up through RS Level C. I check their grades (actually they tell me their grades every day) so I have a good idea where/if they are struggling and we take a bit to help them through then they’re back on their own.
My dd tried TT3 and the spiral was not good for her. She would get the problems correct on the computer, but then get them wrong in the book and as we went along, she didn’t understand how to do things or why.
So I switched her to MUS and she finally got over her year-long math hump. I also have used the drills on MUS’s website but mainly just the drill portions from my Ray’s book.
I previously drilled both of mine with adding and subtr. from Ray’s as well. Without the foundational immediate recall of these answers, they would have so many problems later.
Hope you find what works. Spiral is just not for this household. If MUS takes to long to go through something, we can skip problems and/or move faster. If I find they have forgotten any previous topics, then I can give them an extra sheet here and there (but this doesn’t happen normally since they do 2-3 of the systematic review worksheets).
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