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Spanking rules?
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I know, I know this is a controversial subject so if you’d rather PM me, that’s fine!
My first child, my DS, is 3. I had decided not to spank and had read a lot on positive parenting/attachment parenting but I’ve had such a hard time gathering what to do within that philosophy.
So now I’m thinking maybe spanking is a better tool, especially for direct defiance, which happens a lot around here. I find that repeating my commands and reasoning with him raises my frustration levels too much and I can’t imagine that a swift pop on the bottom could be more damaging than an angry, frustrated, scolding, impatient mother.
But I didn’t come from a home where spanking happened. (Physical contact, yes. Yelling, yes. Name-calling, yes. Scolding, yes. Shaming, yes. Spanking, no.) I didn’t want to repeat unhealthy patterns with my children but I find my raised, frustrated voice to be going that direction. It seems that spanking would take the emotion out of the discipline which is what I’m after. I don’t get angry at defiance. I get angry at defiance over and over and over and over…my frustration just rises and rises…
So to my question (finally :))… How does a spanking happen, especially before and after? Do you warn that a spanking is going to happen? Do you explain why the spanking happened? Does it just happen with not much said? (Because I can tell you in most instances he’s perfectly, 110% aware of what he’s doing wrong.)
Thanks for the help!!!
Dana
This is just what we do in our house.
Our kids know that direct disobedience (as in: I told you to do this, you heard me and you either told me no or you chose not to do it) gets a spanking. Also, there may be other times that we deem that spanking is necessary, but we always give a warning about this first.
When we do feel that spanking is appropriate, Dad is the one who administers it (I am the step-mom, so I don’t enforce physical punishment). We do it privately, in our bedroom. Before the spanking occurs, we talk to the child about why this is happening, and if the child is old enough they tell us why, and we also talk about as loving parents discipline is necessary to help them grow into the people that God wants them to be. Then, we spank. Afterwards, we have the child pray (with us their) asking for forgiveness for his disobedience and to help him make better choices. Then, we give hugs and kisses and we go on our way.
We spank. It happens immediately upon defiance. As the kids get older, we explain before &/or after why they need a spanking, but at 3, we just say, “You disobeyed. You need a spanking.” And we give one swat that smarts. Not hard, of course, but not soft, either. It must leave an impression. We have been using RaisingGodlyTomatoes.com for our discipline. The entire book is on her website, or you can borrow/buy it. We are far from perfect, but it has given us a good base to come back to when we forget to be immediate. It has helped immensely, even though we’re not 100% consistent. When we first started, we would warn once (twice for our then-almost-4yo), then it was a swat. We only did that the first day or 2 though, then it was immediately upon defiance/disobedience. I should mention, we have not been using this a full year yet, but almost. My 8 and 7yos get it, but it takes a long time to get through to olders, especially with inconsistency. The author, Elizabeth, recommends starting as young as 9 mths (not spanking, but getting them to obey), basically as soon as they can understand a simple command, such as “No.” After 18 mths, you are “starting later,” as she describes in her book.
I hope this was somewhat helpful! Parenting is definitely challenging….. 🙂
Just what we do…
We spank, but only for acts of direct defiance. For as many other things as possible we prefer to use more natural consequences. (Especially with our 5.5 yo, loss of privilige is usually more effective with her over spankings.) We spank immediately, but then when the child has calmed down (since there is usually some crying over it), I (or dh) cuddle the child up on our lap and talk about what happened. (Why did mommy give you a spank? Did you obey/listen to what mommy said? What does the Bible tell us is the right thing to do? Now, let’s try again – can you show mommy what the right thing to do is?) This is with dd 5.5 and ds 3. I don’t have tons of experience, but we are finding that this approach has been fairly effective for us, with kids at the ages that we have.
FWIW!
Jen
I’m suggesting resources more than personal statements as these books explain it better than I. I think one of the best two books for explaining the proper use and and implementation of spanking/child training is:
- Don’t Make Me Count to Three by Ginger PLowman
- Sheperding a Child’s Heart (and there’s a follow-up Instructing a Child’s Heart) by Tedd Tripp
- and those applicable by John Rosemond (let me know if you want o know which ones I have experience with)
- Lastly, Boundaries with Kids would top it off for you as it deals with the emotional manipulative side of the parent/child relationship.
The first two talk very specifically on the how of Biblical implementation; with your background, that would give you a blueprint (the spanking rules as you said) to follow to keep your fears down of going overboard (my husband has the same concerns because of his childhood abuse). They deal with any anger and the emotional issues in yourself surrounding physical punishment that you may need to address so that you can administer spanking properly so that it may “drive the foolishness out the heart of a child” because it’s not meant to be release for us but one tool which some children need (I dare say, most. It’s the rare child, IMO that doesn’t need a wop every now and then)
Those by John Rosemond would encourage you in your G-d given role to be more authoritative (not authoritarian) in your parenting and I think would be helpful.
They are all books you will return to again and again.
Blessings to you dear,
Rachel
Thank you everyone! I hate all this and wish he’d just listen. Grrr… I always come back to this. 🙁 Sigh.
And if you don’t spank could you tell me what does work other than that then?
I’ll give an example of what we have going on here:
Me: seeing him about to do ‘x’, “Don’t do ‘x”.
DS: doesn’t pause, look at me, acknowledge me, but goes full steam ahead, and does ‘x’
Me: in a moment of really wanting to understand this, “Did you hear me tell you not to do ‘x’?”
DS: “Yeah”
Me: “Then why did you do it anyway?”
DS: “Because I just wanted to.”
Honestly the kid scares me to death because a 3 yo boy doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants – well – he’s not capable of sound judgment!
Or let’s see…
Me: Get down!
DS: silence. Doesn’t get down.
Me: I said get down!
DS: “No, but I was just ‘enter justification for actions here'”
Me: raising my voice, “I said get down! Don’t make me tell you again!” (Actually for a get down I probably would have physically removed him but he’s 38 pounds and I’m in my 8th month of pregnancy and can hardly physically handle him anymore. He’s strong!)
So he has to sit in his room 2 minutes which is practically a joke or he gets a lecture from me, whoop-ti-doo.
Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I’m so frustrated!!!
Or! I laminate some of his little activities I print for him (in hopes they will last more than 30 seconds) and he’ll come grabbing at stuff. I’m like, “Stop. Get your hands off. Don’t touch it! Stop grabbing stuff! JUST GET OUT OF HERE IF YOU CAN’T LISTEN TO ME!” And all the while I’m moving his hand off it and moving them further from his grasp… He does this in the kitchen when I’m cooking too. When he has it in his head what he wants to do it’s like pulling teeth to get him off it.
The whining and why’s too. And how many times I say ‘no’ to the same request. Geez.
I’ll stop now. I don’t *really* want to spank but I don’t want
1. Our relationship to go on like this (otherwise we’re very close)
2. Him to get hurt or killed which could happen to a child who doesn’t listen (especially with a 3rd story balcony off the living room, in places like the kitchen, on the road, etc, etc…)
Thanks for listening to my rant! 🙂
Dana
Hi Dana
I still struggle at times – but basically he doesn’t see that he has any consequences for not listening to you. Spanking is an option (and we do sometimes spank) but there are other options too.
The not being able to physically move him may make things a lot harder though.
I think first off you need to talk less. He is 3… don’t ask Why… it is because he wants to…. he doesn’t have another reason and the reason doesn’t matter anyway.
So – if using Timeouts…. I recommend using the Super Nanny method of timeouts… She has a “naughty chair” or “naughty spot”
DS about to do “X” (assuming not a danger issue)
You “Don’t do X or you will go in a timeout”
DS does X (as above)
You Take him to timeout spot – lead by had or carry there. Get down to his level (hard when pregnant) – Say “I told you not to do X and you still did it. You are in the naughty chair and will stay there for 3 minutes” Set a timer. If he gets out of the timeout spot, put him back in not saying anything, and reset timer. continue until he has sat there for 3 minutes without getting out. The timeout spot should be a boring place – no toys, etc. When the timeout is done you go to him and say “You were in a timeout because you did X after I told you not to. Please tell Mom you are sorry”. If he says sorry, he can have a hug and leave. If he won’t say sorry, his stays in the timeout until he is ready too.
For the “get down” thing – again don’t argue, don’t try to reason with him. If he doesn’t get down when you tell him, you will need to physically get him down AND put him in the timeout spot for not getting down when you told him to.
It sounds like right now nothing happens if he doesn’t obey you, so yes, he is going to do what HE wants. Whatever you choose to do for discipline do it right off. Don’t repeat commands over and over.
btw – when the baby comes, I need to warn you that he will probably seem very knowledgable about when it is inconvenient for you to discipline him.
I’d just second the recommendation for Raising Godly Tomatoes. Super awesome, very practical. She gives you step by step how tos, and while she does advocate spanking, she also gives recomendations of what to do if you can’t/won’t spank – she just says the process will take longer. The most important thing is to be consistant with whatever you do, never let anything slide, even the smallest thing, even for the best excuse (he’s tired, sick, hot etc…) Not that you spank for all of these things, but that you get off your katookis and adress every disobedience, bad attitude, etc.. – It’s a LOT of work, but children that are parented this way are an absolute delight to be around.
Okay great. Thanks to everyone (so far)! How long does it take to see fruit usually? When the child is stubborn? (Or does he sound normal?)
It seems to me from reading your posts that you are not wanting to spank but are very frustrated with your child’s behavior and how to handle it, and Honestly he does sound like a normal 3 year old that needs rules and consequences … and it seems like you need some good tools and stress relievers! I think across the board an angry mom is not a good thing… whether it comes out in physical or verbal ‘discipline’ it will be damaging to the child, and your relationship with him.
Have you ever looked on the Gentle Christian Mothers forrum? They have some great discussion threads on non physical and verbal discipline. There is also a good stickied thread over there wiht a booklist of positive discipline books… Some books I’ve enjoyed are Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline, Heartfelt Discipline, Parenting is Heart Work (LOVE LOVE LOVE this book!) and Grace Based Discipline (my other fav)
I personally choose not to be the police and judge the reasoning behind my kids behavior (because honestly how can I ever REALLY know) and simply discipline. Child throws food on floor I take the plate away, I don’t have to analyze whether he did it to get me angry, or because he was being defiant or because he was testing gravity (which is very normal too 😉 ).
Paretning is NOT an easy job! But if you look at the long term of reaching his heart rather than the short term of getting him to behave it may help, he’s not out to get you… be on his side rather than him agains you.
A hearty second/third to the books, Raising Godly Tomatoes (whole book online) and Don’t Make Me Count to Three (AWESOME) and Shepherding a Child’s Heart.
eThe basic rules for any puishment.
1. It has to be immediate (as the behavior is happening is best)
2. No emotion
3. It has to happen EVERY time the behavior happens no letting it slide this time, no I’m too tired…. EVERY time or you will actually strengthen the behavior. In other words if you sometimes spank and sometime don’t he’ll be MORE likely to disobey. So if your not sure about spanking, if your heart is not in it, I would advise you don’t.
I agree with suzukimom, I don’t think you need to spank. Just use fewer word and then stop the behavior. Pick him up, move him, take the toy, leave the park, whatever form it takes, but don’t leave obedience to chance. And again no emotion (which often means no words). For instance today my kids were fighting over some toys. I walked in the room, picked up the toys took them into the kitchen with me and went back to doing the dishes. They didn’t need me to tell them why I took the toys. They know fighting isn’t allowed. Words are often lost when it comes to behaviors. Save the words for other time.
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