Science, Apologia, Dislikes – Why Specifically do you not like it?

Interesting that you brought this up.  We just received our Apologia general science for our dd after MUCH searching, research, comparing, discussion, etc. etc.  I had read a lot of the discussions on high school science from the SCM forum.  We are looking forward to it but I am also (secretly)nervous about it, actually!  Not letting on to dd, though!

Some of the “problems” that some people mentioned that stuck out to me were  mostly involving it being very “dry”, compared to all the living books they had been used to.  Many people also mentioned that it “sucked the fun” out of a previously enjoyable subject.  Another thought that I came across from another online site (which I was surprised at because it seemed to be saying the OPPOSITE of what was being said in this forum) was that it was NOT rigorous enough for adequately preparing students for university or college.  This was from an online catholic school (I think) and they also mentioned being slightly offended by what seemed to be an attitude that was somewhat biased against the catholic church.  I had not read that ANYWHERE else and I also know that there are people on this site that are catholic and have used Apoligia and I don’t remember seeing ANYTHING like this ever mentioned.  So I didn’t really let that sway me in the final decision.

I have been going over the course and all it’s components, it’s recommended schedules, ways to use it properly, etc.  Some of the things that I was seeing people complaning about it from other places were saying it seemed disjointed, difficult to retain information, not set up efficiently, etc..  I came to the conclusion that they were possibly not using it in the way it was intended or in the way that was clearly suggested in the notes to parents section as well as the notes to students section.  We will be attempting to use the course and the notebook in as close to the intended way as possible and see if that doesn’t clear up a lot of those issues.

As far as it being dry, boring, to difficult for non-sciency kids, etc.  we decided to start her in it a half a year earlier than we had originally intented (the original plan was to start and finish in year 8).  She will be starting now, halfway through year 7 and the goal will be to finish in year 8.  This should give her plenty of time to get used to the more difficult work, the set up, the tests, the “boring” first sections (which were the hardest part according to many) and still not feel behind.  She is not a math and science minded person, but we are still going to try our best with this!

If you would like,  I can let you know how it is going when we are a few weeks in!

Hi Claire! My son hated Apologia. He used General Science, Biology and we finally ditched Chemistry half way through the year. I think he disliked it because he was used to living books and had never used a textbook for anything other than math and grammar. I also think it was laziness. :-\

That was my son’s experience. Now, here we are years later and I was worried that my daughter would hate Apologia as well. We’ve always used living science books. Last year we used Ambleside Online’s year 6 science and it went fairly well. I was planning on using their year 7 science this year. We started and things were going pretty good. However, I wasn’t able to use all of their science selections so I was trying to decide what to supplement with. I decided to pull out my old Apologia General Science book just to see how she would handle it. Well, lo and behold, we found it EASY compared with the AO science! In fact, both my daughter and myself actually LIKE it. We are enjoying General Science and find ourselves looking forward to it. Boy was I surprised!

I was just sure my daughter was going to hate  Apologia just like her brother did. I thought that textbooks just weren’t for us. However, Apologia is not your typical textbook. It’s written in a conversational tone by a man who loves God and love science and both come through loud and clear. The text is interesting, straight forward and understandable.

I think the fact that my daughter has read much harder books at a much younger age than my son ever did, is the thing that made the difference.

I started the General Science book last year and stopped after a short while. All the tests were way too much to study for and to remember. It was a lot of work for my son and myself as I had a hard time to find the answers.

I am thinking to give it another try next but skip the tests and do a written narration for each lesson instead. The content seems to be very good.

I don’t know!?!  Some of them I was having a hard time to find.

Can someone else answer this?

Maybe it is just me, I just remember thinking that was way too much work for me and for my son too!

Hi.  Bookworm the science nerd reporting.  I don’t have a ton of time today, but wanted to step in briefly.

There are more secular science books on the market.  Some have all the needed info in them.  They are usually written by a committee of several people.  They are in my experience uniformly dry, and they are rarely well suited to use in the home.  Sometimes the teacher editions are very expensive or even unavailable, and the labs are not designed for use at home.  In my home, we discuss a broad range of science topics as relating to religion. We’ve read the very simple young earth creationist position; we read evolutionary theory.   The very simple manner of the Apologia books in explaining this topic can grate on my kids at times.  But knowing the proclivities of the majority of homeschool families, I think most would be more comfortable with this type of book instead of the typical secular text.  It appears to me that the new Apologia owners are beginning a revision of the high school texts to include much more creationist perspective.  It seems to me that some of this is forced and unnecessary.  I don’t know what I’ll be recommending in the future.  Dr. Wile is actually trying to put out a better chemistry text as the new Apologia edition has a number of very serious weaknesses.  I do NOT recommend Chemistry 2nd ed.  I would stay with the older version if you can find it, or possibly Dr. Wile’s new version which I have not yet seen.  So far Biology and Physics have not been revised again.

Claire, we have also not been very troubled by the “environmentalist” perspective in these texts.  We also read a wide range of opinions on this topic, and find ourselves often somewhere in the middle ground between the extreme black and white sides of the debate.  Sigh.  This happens to us a lot.

College prep science is hard.  I promise you, unless your child goes to a high end liberal arts college with access to courses like “Physics for Poets” (yes, a real course at one school we looked at LOL) that introductory science class in college will be harder.

For Apologia you do need that gray teacher edition book.  The answers for the study guides and tests are in that.  The answers for the on your own problems are at the end of the chapters in the text.  For biology, there IS a study notebook published by Apologia that I really liked. It might soften the blow for that first class.  They did publish a similar guide for chemistry, but only for the 2nd ed. which we will not be using, and it cannot be used with the first ed.  Also Dr. Wile has expressed to me a concern that students will use it as rather a crutch and since nothing like that will be given them in college, he thinks using these is best kept to a minimum.

I do think Apologia an adequate preparation for a beginning college class.  I did myself augment the labs, often with Quality Science Labs, especially for chemistry.  But then I love chemistry labs.  🙂  The more the better!  Dr. Wile’s newer book for chemistry has much better and specially designed labs (more than 40!) that he has designed to be inexpensive and easier for homeschool moms.  Caveat: I have not yet seen the text, I am just going on what he has on his blog and his answers to my questions.

So, in summary.  Apologia should be acceptable to most Christian families, although it can seem simplistic if you are serious about exposing your children to the nitty-gritty details of the issues.  You have to understand that I was preparing my kids for a good likelihood they were going to study science in college (so far they have both jumped ship to the social sciences lol) It is written in a much better style than most secular high school texts.  It has the needed information, an inexpensive teacher manual and labs that can be done at home for reasonable expense.  Most secular books we have looked at have suffered in comparison by not being designed for use in a home by a mom.  Most other Christian texts/programs suffer in comparison by not being rigorous enough and not having the needed information.  College prep science is not a walk in the park.  It will challenge most of our kids at some point.  IMO this is for most kids probably a good thing.  My preference for struggling kids would be instead of going down the scale to a fluffier program, to instead slow down and augment the text.  Do more hands-on, watch videos, teach the child to take notes and how to study vocabulary, whatever it takes.  If it takes you two years to make it through one text, IMO it’s still better than doing an easier program in one year.  Try to give your kids a little idea of just how powerful a window on life on this earth good science can be.  Yes, it’s hard, but it’s so rewarding.  It’s so relevant.  It’s a legacy to us from the God who organized this world, that we can see and begin to understand what He created.

Sorry, you are right, I plead migraine meds this morning.  LOL

Read here for more info:

http://blog.drwile.com/?cat=13

My boys are ones that complain that it’s boring and dry. I have found though, that in the 3 books we’ve used (general, physical, and biology), the first chapter or two are the hardest. Once they get past that they’re better. They HATED general, tolerated physical, and have mostly liked biology. I think the hands-on aspect of biology was more appealing.

One child in particular complains about the author’s ‘agenda’ and hates all the ‘rants about religion’. Having grown up in a very religious home where science and religion are frequently discussed he feels that he doesn’t need it in a text book. It doesn’t necessarily conflict with our beliefs, he just doesn’t want it in his science text. *shrugs shoulders* This same child feels that often a concept is briefly hit upon, but not thoroughly explained. He’s a science thinker and wants a bit more in-depth information than is sometimes offered.

They also get really frustrated when I don’t follow up with narrations or the On Your Own questions. Sometimes I let a few days go without checking in and make sure they’re understanding and I find out they’re lost or haven’t grasped a concept and by then they’re steaming mad “at the author because it’s a stupid book” when in fact they just need to take a few minutes to understand something that is fuzzy. That’s more a reflection on how we use the book vs. the actual book.

I’m excited for the new chemistry book though! It seems more like the direction I’d like to see textbooks go.