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School seems choppy with so many subjects and such short lessons.
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I know I have read in the past that some people have decided to do concentrate on fewer subjects at a time, such as doing history for a term and then science for a term, or even for a year. Or I’ve thought about doing world history for a term, then Canadian history for a term, then geography for a term. If you’ve done something like this, I’d like to know how well it worked.
We are starting to feel like we are just ‘getting through’ a checklist of books and topics, and don’t really have time to really get into anything. I’ve used AO’s schedule charts as a rough guide, but then swapped out some books for ones that we already own. I know that the basic idea is that by spreading books out, doing just one chapter a week (or even less), the students will have time to really live with each book and the characters, and to make connections with other things they are reading or experiencing. While this makes sense in theory, it just doesn’t seem to be happening. Because we only read each book once a week, my children don’t really seem to care about them. They aren’t connecting with the books. I’m wondering if focusing on fewer books, but reading them more often, would help. For example, with literature, DD8 is reading or listening to: Little Pilgrim’s Progress, Parables from Nature, Tales from Shakespeare, The Heroes, and The Princess and Goblin (not all every week, but she’s done some from each book so far.) It just seems very scattered. Her narrations also seem scattered, so I think she is feeling the same way.
I know some people also do either picture study or music study, but not both at the same time. I’m beginning to like that idea more and more.
The same is true for other topics as well. For example, I have my children do copywork every day. DD8 does 3 lines in cursive, DS6 does 2 lines (shorter because of larger printing) of manuscript. So it takes a few days to complete a passage (right now we are using some copywork books from Lighthome Publications). They grumble and delay and have a hard time getting started. Once they are going, though, they get interested in the passage, and the writing flows quite well. Originally I thought consistent small bits everyday would be the best so they get practice everyday, but now I wonder if just completing the passage in one or two sittings, and then taking a few days off, would be better.
I also wonder if 3 slightly longer periods of math per week would be better than 5 fairly short ones. We just seem to spend too much of our time switching gears and trying to remember what we were doing the last time, and then the short lesson is done and we’re on to something totally different, having to get oriented all over again. I know that CM recommended alternating between short ‘ideas’ type lessons and ‘skills’ type lessons, but I’m wondering if I’ve got us doing too much of a good thing!
So, back to the original question. Do you spread things out, or do more condensed focused work on fewer things at a time? Why, and how is that working for you?
Thanks.
Joanne
I have a friend who focuses on history for a while, like weeks, and then science for a while. So she will spend more time each day in that subject. With my daughter, I need to keep the lessons short, because I lose her if I drag them out. You need to do what works best for your children. As far as the lit, I was wondering why your daughter is reading so many lit books at one time. I’d just do one lit book at a time. That may be why things seem choppy. If you just do one lit book, you could add history and science with no problem. I think it would be better to read the lit at least a few times a week, if not every day. Your children would probably enjoy each book more if they stayed with the same one and didn’t jump around. Just my opinion.
As far as the lit, I was wondering why your daughter is reading so many lit books at one time. I’d just do one lit book at a time. That may be why things seem choppy. If you just do one lit book, you could add history and science with no problem. I think it would be better to read the lit at least a few times a week, if not every day. Your children would probably enjoy each book more if they stayed with the same one and didn’t jump around. Just my opinion.
As I mentioned, I designed our program based on AO, with a few alterations. Those are all the literature books they have scheduled for year 3, term 1. As I said, they are not all scheduled every week. But I think I’m coming to agre with you. I think we would enjoy them more if we were not jumping around as much.
As I’ve been thinking more about this since I posted, I wonder if part of the problem is just that life in general is more scattered this year. It’s the first year with 2 students, my 4yo wants to be more involved, the 2yo twins that we watch every day are becoming more active, it’s our first year with more than one out-of-the-house lesson to get to, and so on. My whole day is just ‘get through the next thing’, so I can see that might be rubbing off on how I feel about school, which of course the kids will pick up on. None of those things can be changed, but perhaps if I simplify school a bit, it will help.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Joanne
We have done things you mentioned before. One year we did history in one semester and science in the other, so we had lots of time to live with one or the other. We don’t read a book once a week – more like once a day, several days a week. We also have done artists studies and music/composer studies in different terms instead of both at once. It works fine.
I’ve got to admit that AO just isn’t for me. I adore having all my kids in the same time period so we’ve got this beautiful family conversation going about it. AO also does a lot more readings simultaneously because you’re doing them less per week and most of my kids do better with fewer books at a time. We usually have:
1 literature book they are reading daily for 20 minutes.
1 history book 4xwk. Often this is a read aloud for my 3rd and under crowd while the 7th grader reads hers independently.
1 read aloud for Book Club.
I think you’ll find what works for you if you’re willing to try things differently and see if they work. I think with AO or any laid out curriculum it can be easy to fall into the trap of rigidly following it (fitting the family to the curriculum) instead of making it work for you flexibly (fitting the curriculum to the family).
Hi Joanne,
From reading your posts, I have a few thoughts to share:
Yes, you are going to be a bit ‘choppy’ with many youngsters. But I think you are on the right track in wanting to slow things down a little and really get into each subject.
I don’t know all your reasons for choosing AO scheduling…but I would say that you will find few AO homeschoolers here. We like SCM and this forum because it is offering a simpler method of implementing CM principles.
We aren’t aiming for the ‘stuffing’ method. We are aiming for ‘marinating’. Hate to compare our lovable, incomparable kids with turkeys….but that is the word picture that comes to mind. We want to saturate them with great wisdom from great minds, not stuff them full of facts.
If you feel like you are working from a checklist, that is a pretty good sign that you need to vary the curriculum and slow it down.
Now, there are ‘disciplined studies’ that are going to require some self-control and focus – you mentioned copywork, and how your kids are learning the habit of perseverence in their work by overcoming their resistence and getting to the work. Those habits should increase as the kids mature. Disciplined studies include things like copywork, math, language studies, etc.
Charlotte’s method was not designed to create people who can ONLY do short lessons! She wanted us to use short lessons to teach the habit of absolute attention. Once that habit is instilled, it can be expanded so that the child can absorb more and do longer periods of study.
All the other studies (most of the things that you think of doing together and aloud) like history, science, literature, picture study, etc…you can really take your time with. Enjoy the learning process with your child.
Remember that Charlotte said, “Education is an atmosphere, a discipline, a life”. Make your home a place where your life centers on learning and growing together. And then you won’t be living a ‘checklist’ – you will be living LIFE!
Tristan, I thought it might have been you that had mentioned doing history for a term, then science. Thanks for chiming in.
I used AO for a base this year for a few reasons. First, I don’t think family studies are ideal for my children. DD8 is very quick in everything she does, reads fast, speaks fast when narrating, and generally flits about the room. DS6 is more deliberate, speaks slowly, with a bit of a stammer, and gets highly distracted very easily. We do some things together, but it takes real effort from me to make sure he is not overshadowed by her. He is actually at the same level in many areas, but I think independent work is best for the most part. So AO seemed like a good way to go. Second, they use lots of ebooks, many of which I already have, so it seemed logical to stick with the AO schedule. Third, they have those nice handy little schedule charts where everything is laid out week by week. It was simple to make a few adjustments for books we don’t have or I didn’t like, and then just plug it all in.
However, as ServingwithJoy reminded me (thank-you), AO isn’t the only approach. I specifically chose this forum to ask the question on because I knew I wouldn’t just get the typical “AO” answers. I already knew what they would be.
I need to rethink what will work best in our home. Right now, I think that means doing fewer things at once. For some things, that will be fewer, slightly longer lessons, and for some it will mean fewer books, more frequently.
Thanks for helping me puzzle this through. It was something I’ve been thinking about, but mostly needed to express it to make it make sense instead of just jostling around in my head.
Joanne
I’m going to walk through a few of your concerns, one at a time. Hopefully something in here helps you.
As far as AO’s Lit choices and how it works, you read one book through, and then do the next, and then do the next, and so on. You don’t do a chapter from one, then a chapter from the next, then a chapter from a 3rd, etc. It’s one chapter at a time from just one book, almost every day, then when you finish that particular book, you move on to the next one in the same way – one chapter a day until it’s finished. Does that help?
As for math, depending on the ages of your kids, I do 15-20 min. daily with my 7yo, and 30 min daily with my 4th and 5th graders. It’s not like with the readings where it is only 10-15 min. You double it for math. I believe CM’s schedule table shows the same thing, but someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
For copywork, it is best to do that daily – for the practice, really. Just like learning to type goes faster and easier doing it every day, learning to write you need to practice every day. Same with learning an instrument. If you just practice for a few days and then take a break, you’re not going to get very far very quickly. For my 7yo, I have Delightful Handwriting for her, and she does one page of that daily. But those are so short, it’s easily done. For my older 2, I have them doing Horizons Penmanship, but instead of doing one page every day, it’s a line or 2 (or 4 for my 5th grader) daily. I number the lines – most pages have about 9 lines – and then I say, “do lines 1-4” or “do line 3-4” or whatever. My kids don’t mind it being broken up like that, it helps them to focus and know that they only have to do a tiny bit, and then it’s over. But too much at one time and their hands cramp and their brains get tired from too much focus on one thing.
For artist study and music study, we do those on the same day, personally, but some people do artist study one day and music study another day. For music study, really you only have to read the bio and then the music you can listen to anytime of the day, multiple times a week, if you want – in the car, during math, during dinner, etc. For artist study, reading the book is the longest part, and I would only read for 5-10 min at a time (because I have a little guy who listens in). But once you are to the actual looking at the pictures stage, it is only like 5 minutes. And then I always hang up the picture in our schoolroom/office/playroom for them to see often. This helps them stay connected to it and the artist all week until our next picture study.
For history, depending on the age of the student, we might have a spine one day and a “regular” book another day, for a total of twice a week. Or we might just do one “regular” book, one chapter a week, until that book is done, and then pull out the next book. Like what we do with literature, only once a week instead of 2-7 times a week. (The literature we do try to do almost every day of the week, or at least a few times, at worst.)
I hope some of this helps you!
I wanted to add that the daily finger practice with writing, typing, instruments, etc. is important to do daily for building up the muscles and technique. We have only one artist/composer bio. going at a time, reading 1 – 2 times a week. But I play the music in the afternoon or earlier at lunch. We study a painting 5-10 min. per week and hang it up all week, or you can go 2 weeks.
Actually Sarah, AO doesn’t have you reading the same lit book each day. It is more like Joanne says. (I have one in AO Year 2, and one in AO Year 3….)
In AO Year 2 and 3, you have 1 main Lit book going – that there is one or more chapters assigned a week. (Year 1 it is 1 chapter a week, in Year 2 so far it is 2 or 3 chapters a week – my son Delta reads them all the same day….)
Then there are the “other” lit books… basically Pilgrim’s Progress, Tales from Shakespeare, and Parables from Nature. Those are roughly every 3rd or 4th week.
Right now, as I’ve recently redone how we are doing things, we do…
Pilgrim’s Progress on Monday. The main Lit book on Tuesday. (Princess & the Goblin for Delta, Understood Betsy for Echo). Shakespeare/Parables from Nature on Wednesday if there is an assignment that week…. Canadian Literature (added) on Thursday. Friday is a catch-up day if somthing didn’t get finished.
I was feeling pretty “scattered” this year too, with one in Year 3, one in Year 2, one in Year 0.5, and the toddler…. I’ve redone our scheduling, and things seem to be running much smoother.
Joanne – You have one of your kids in Year 1 – right? I find that year extremly scattered and disjointed as there are more lit books that are broken up all across the year, and the same with the science reading. I have a modified schedule I plan to use with my next kids that I hope will make it feel a bit more unified like I find Year 2 and 3…. So instead of having Just So Stories, the Blue Fairy Book, etc all scattered throughout the year, it is setup so you have the one main “lit” book, and then the Shakespeare/Parables going and that is it. Same with Science – Herriot’s book together, and Bird Book together. Would you like me to send it to you?
Sara, thank you for your suggestions. Most of what you said is what I had been thinking about switching to. My main purpose in starting the thread was to find out how well that works for others. It sounds like it is working in your home, so there’s my answer.
Wings2fly, thanks for the reminder about the importance of consistent daily practice. That is why I had set up our schedule as it is in the first place. I’m going to think more about this one, but may go to 3 days per week for copywork, with slightly longer lessons, and see how that works. I don’t want to do it less frequently than that, though, or we’ll lose that consistency.
Suzukimom, yes, please send me your set up. My year 1 is the year where I have switched out the most books so it doesn’t look a whole lot like AO anymore, but it sounds like I have it set up similar to what you have said. Each day has it’s designated history and literature books, with Friday as our ‘lite’ day to catch up on anything missed. It will be good to compare how you’ve managed it.
I think the addition of Canadian history/literature may be part of my problem. AO has World and American history both going, so I followed that, but I think I’m doing more Canadian chapters than what AO has in just TCOO. I think I will focus on World History/Geography for 2 terms, condensing things somewhat, and then Canadian for the 3rd term. I do want to hit both every year, but they don’t need to be simultaneous. For literature, I will also divide the books into 2 parts and do some of them for the first half of the year and some for the second half. That will reduce some of the switching around.
I’ve also realized that some of my challenge comes from the fact that DD8 just does everything SO DARNED FAST! She can read and narrate a chapter in far less than 10 minutes. We are doing Spelling Wisdom, using the passage for copywork one day and then dictating in a day or two later. She can copy it in about 1 minute, and then on dictation day she gets out her paper and writes it down from memory faster than I can find the passage I’m supposed to be dictating. I’m guessing that this will slow down as we get to longer passages, which happens soon. I think we’ll do 2 lessons a week for a few weeks to get her further into the book, to reach a level where she is challenged a bit more.
Thanks again everyone for helping me sort this all out. It’s not that we are having a miserable school year. It’s actually going more smoothly than last year did. We just need a little bit of tweaking.
Joanne
You have your 8yo doing Spelling Wisdom? Dictation doesn’t start until Year 4. Great that she can do it, but I wouldn’t have even considered beginning it at that age. 🙂
You have your 8yo doing Spelling Wisdom? Dictation doesn’t start until Year 4. Great that she can do it, but I wouldn’t have even considered beginning it at that age. 🙂
Yes, I know it’s not typical, but she was ready for it. Anything related to the written word is a strength for this girl. She taught herself to read at age four, learned manuscript printing at 5, cursive at 6, and is already a fairly strong speller. She reads several books a day (just in her ‘before breakfast’ and ‘at bedtime’ reading) and writes pages of letters, stories, diary entries, etc. all the time. She dislikes copywork, though, because it’s ‘boring’ just writing someone else’s words. Spelling Wisdom gives a purpose for the copywork, plus she loves learning to spell new words. We do other copywork as well, which she does reluctantly because I’ve told her it’s necessary, but she really enjoys SW. We’ve just done one quick SW lesson each week, and they are very short at the beginning, but as I said, I’m going to bump that up a bit because it’s going so well.
Teach the child, not the curriculum, right?
Suzukimom, are those “lit” books, or really for other subjects? Pilgrim’s Progress is under Personal Development here on SCM, which is where I covered it. Parables from Nature is Science. So yes, you’re reading all those different books, but they are for different subjects, and they are all during the same week, not broken up over different weeks. Technically most of the books we use for CM educations are “lit” books, then, right?
I have poked around the AO site a lot, and I do my own combo of AO and SCM, but I did think I had a handle on how their rotations go…. Maybe I will poke back around over there and have a look-see.
Sara, yes, those are all literature books. You can get a feel for how they are scheduled if you look at the weekly schedule pages on the AO Site. Here is year 3. http://amblesideonline.org/03sch.shtml. Just looking through the list for a couple of weeks will give you a feel for how the books are spread out.
Joanne
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