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OT: Home Church?
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We have been attending the same church for approx. 9 years now. I’ts the only church my family has ever known. Without going into too much detail, there have been many bumps along the way. I know we all fall short, we all have planks in our eyes, so I do not want to “bash ” anyone out of respect for a church family I love, in spite of the hurts. My kids have grown up there, and in the early years, their awkward ways (ASD/ADD) were not blatently obvious in the eyes of their young church friends. Now we are in the tween and teen stages of their lives; they are homeschooled, they are not into atheletics, my daugter is not a cheerleader or into make-up and boyfriends, my son has acne. They try to fit in, but the “cliques’ are growing stronger every week. They want friends, they NEED friends, they are good kids; I’m not just saying that as an angry mama bear! Many compliment their manners and kind ways, just not their peers. They are aknowledged by their youth group, but at arms length at best. I have watched with restraint at mockery, group exclusion, and open rudeness and I can’t stand it anymore. We first attempted to talk to the youth minister, but he didn’t bother to return our calls. We talked to the pastor and his wife, and they seemingly minimized the whole thing into “kids will be kids, just have to accept it”. They said that it’s like this in all churches in varying degrees. Tell me, is this true? I told my husband today if it is true, I don’t want to belong to any church; we can have church at home. I can’t listen to a message knowing my kids are treated this way more often than not. My sister (800 miles away) says that church should be the one place you and your kids should feel safe, accepted, in spite of their social quirks or delays. I know that they will have to overcome hurts and disappointments in life on their own. Small doses of pain here and there in their young lives will prepare them for the world we live in. I understand this. But, do safe church families exist, where they can take a break from the garbage we face in our society? Can we find such a church, or was our pastor correct in his opnion. Is home church the only option for kids who “cluck” in the eyes of the”cliques”?
Without going into too much detail (feel free to pm me), there are churches where your kids can feel as you’d like them to feel, but IMHO, it may take being a part of a much smaller congregation. We have experienced what you are looking for for many years in a small church. Now, the larger we grow, which is by the Lord’s doings, I don’t know how things will fair, but so far my family has been incredibly blessed. My prayer for my dc is that they have such a strong sense of their identity in Christ that their peers’ opinion of them will not matter quite as much or at all. Not to say others haven’t been blessed by larger churches, but I do know that the one we associate with (not worship with) is large and what you’re describing happens there. Is it a wonderful, out-reaching church? Absolutely. But, would I want to deal with what you’re describing every week? No way. We already kind of deal with that within our homeschool group and it’s not something that sets well with our group’s leaders (they are working on finding a way to deal with it).
We’ll pray for you and your family.
This post resonates with me My ds11 was just talking to me about the boys in the church who hold him at arms length. We have been going to this church for 1 year. When we first arrived my children were welcomed, but now their “friends” are back in their familiar cliques and my children are left on the outside. It is painful to watch. My dd15 is into archery, books and drawing and not as “domesticated” as the rest of the girls at church. My ds does not have a smartphone, doesnt watch lots of tv and is friendly to everyone. I asked my ds why he wants to continue to go to the youth group if he feels so left out and he said, “because I want to worship God.” Maybe THAT’S what sets him apart~ LOL!! The church we go to is small and 80% of the children are homeschooled. I can’t figure it out! We did home church for a short period many years ago and my children really liked it! I have to add that my ds has LOTS of friends at home! The boys (unsaved, public schooled) are always happiy to see him and are seemingly always ringing the bell for him to come outside and play…go figure!
First–YES there are churches that are different.
Second–PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don’t take your family away from a larger church family. God commanded us not to forsake the gathering of the saints for good reason. After meeting at home with my family for six years as a teen, I found a church to attend… As circumstances have changed over the 15 years since, I have gone to different churches, including one where I got burnt… But nowhere do I feel I was as stunted as when it was “church at home”. With no disrespect meant to my dear parents, I have watched them stagnate in their faith for 20 years, with little significant interaction with other Christians to challenge or mature their faith. And my parents do take their faith very seriously, but God never meant us to go it alone. It’s a very odd and somewhat unnerving feeling to see friends in our church, some of them new Christians, surpassing my parents in maturity.
No church will ever be perfect; every one is made up of imperfect people. Only Christ’s return will change that!
Prayers for you that things change at your current church, or you are able to find somewhere else that truly (if imperfectly) demonstrates the love and truth of the gospel!
Thank you, we will be praying for the Lord to lead us. The church we attend is fairly large, so maybe a smaller group would be worth a try. There is a small country church in a neighboring town we were looking at this afternoon. I just needed a second opinion on our pastor’s opinion, that hopefully he was wrong in his broad statement that all churches are “cliquish” and you just have to force your way in. It just doesn’t sound biblical, esp. according to the Book of Acts. It sounds like we are not the only ones to feel these hurts for our kids; I just never dreamed it would come to this after ll these yearrs. We were open with the families from the very beginning about some of their (oldest two ) delays; we had hoped that by “growing up” with the other children, some safe, empathetic, godly buddies would come along for them over the years. The mom’s would invite our kids to all the birthdays etc., but now that they are older, not one call; not one kid to they can call “my friend”. It’s funny how one mom mentioned that the “unchurched kids’ are seemingly friendlier; this is the case here too! The community kids who wander in (without parents) for Wed. night meals) will play with my dd; they are kind to her, because sadly the others exclude them as well. Will sign off and try to let go of my anger (before midnight hopefully!) The kids were not very keen about church at home. I can see how things might become stagnate; I don’t want them to be stunted by our biblical limitations. Dh and I are still very new in our walk compared to most lifetime believers we know. will sign off and try to let go of my anger (before midnight). Thanks for the affirmation that there is hope for a new beginning somewhere.
I have had a similar struggle, not with my kids, but with myself. I am … particular (lol) … and am really challenged in making true friends. I have found this to be a real struggle in churches (cliques) and have honestly just about gotten to the point in the past where I figured I might as well stay home and listen to a sermon online, since I wasn’t building any community at church. In the spring, the church we were attending asked us to not ever have our infant in the sermon with us. This was a non-negotiable thing for us, so we left the church and went out searching for a new one. This ended up being such a blessing in disguise!! We have absolutely fallen in love with our new church. The people are committed to building relationships – true Christian relationships – with each other. It has been amazing! My husband and I always are grateful for all we went through in the past though, because it has allowed us to be truly grateful for what we have now. Our new church is super tiny, and I think in the past we would have felt that the lack of programs, the lack of matching furniture or terrible carpet, or what have you that our new church has would have been a roadblock for us. Now we know how little that stuff matters. It is the people! We are so blessed in our new church, and that is my prayer for your family, that you find somewhere where your whole family can be safe! Please be encouraged, there are churches out there – God has a place for your children, take heart.
Many blessings,
Rachel
First of all, I think so many of us are right there with you when it comes to our families feeling “different” from the rest of the church body. And we are! I tell people all the time, “This is the standard God has required of our family. We are no better or worse than your family, but we are accountable to meet the standard God has placed on our lives. We do so without judging you, and appreciate that you not judge us.” That said, there is a huge movement (and has been for years) of the enemy to cause strife and disunity in Church (not just a particular denomination, but the CHURCH as a whole). If he can get you to think that you’re right and everyone else is wrong, then he has succeeded! I’m not saying that what the pastor/youth pastor are doing is right or wrong, but their responsibility is to lead the particular body that God has given them charge over, not to change things for one family.
We are the only homeschooling family in our church. Our children rarely attend children’s church. We have no plans for them to attend the youth group when they get older. They sit with us during service. We are a different family all around, and yet, God has called us to this body. My husband is the worship/associate pastor. We don’t do any of these things with the intent of getting noticed or even to show others a “better way”. That is NOT our job. Our job is to love the people right where they’re at and allow the Holy Spirit to work in their lives where He sees fit. The same is true for every member of the body. You and your family are called to love people, not exclude yourselves because you don’t agree with everything that’s going on.
Now, if you are seeing unscriptural things happening, then absolutely bring it to the leadership/elders/pastors! Show them truth and challenge the things that don’t meet God’s Word as Truth. But if it’s simply because some of the youth girls wear make-up and have boyfriends, that’s not a scriptural reason to leave a church. That’s no different than the argument of hymns vs. contemporary songs. Neither is “biblical” or “unbiblical”; it is a matter of preference for each church.
When your sister said that church is the one place that people should feel loved and accepted, I wonder if she’s taking into account the fallenness of humanity? If humans, especially Christians, can’t love and accept one another outside the four walls of the church, what makes us think they’re going to be able to do it inside the church? Yes, we should love and accept others, but unfortunately, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). I don’t mean to sound harsh here, because I really do understand what you’re going through, but we shouldn’t expect people to love and accept us for homeschooling, raising mannerly kids, etc. if we’re not willing to love and accept them for not homeschooling, allowing their daughters to wear make-up, etc. Does that make sense?
How well do you really know the people in your church? Do you have relationships with them beyond Sunday mornings? Have you fellowshipped with any of the families and made an effort to get to know them? It’s very easy to judge people based upon how they behave once a week for an hour, when really, they may not be that way at all.
Vikingkirken alluded to Hebrews 10:25 above. We often hear that verse quoted when people are not going to church or thinking about home church because of some offense or disagreement in the body. Most people quote Hebrews 10:25 out of context. It is the second part of a complete sentence that begins in verse 24: “And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much more as you see the Day approaching.”
Did you catch that? “Consider one another in order to stir up love and good works“! I believe our love for others is stirred up when we are assembled together as a body of Christ. The people who are in our churches are not perfect people. They are hurting, broken, rejected, and abused. They may not have been taught even basic things like how to pray or read their Bibles, how to dress modestly, how to raise their children, how to stay faithful to their spouses, or how to worship God. These are the people God has asked us to stir up love and good works for. The hard people. It is so hard to love someone who hurts you, but we are mandated to do it anyway. Not only are we mandated to love them, but God wants us to go further and do good things for them! That’s tough!
As a pastor’s wife, I can tell you that it is so hard to love people and do good things for them when they don’t act the way I think they should. Recently, we had a MAJOR disagreement with our pastor–to the point that we are praying fervently for God to show us if we’re even supposed to be at this church. God showed us that we are not the ones in the wrong. So even though this man has wronged us and hurt us to the core, we are continuing to be submitted to his authority, to love him publicly and privately, and to bless him and his family in any way that we can. It is one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do in my life, but I know that I’m being obedient to God and that’s what keeps me going. He desires my obedience more than sacrifice (1 Samuel 15:22)!
In my opinion, starting a house church because of an offense against the pastor/people of your church is rebellious. You don’t like the way they’re running things at your church, so you want to take control and do things your way. Please hear my heart in this; I AM NOT trying to preach at you. I don’t even know you personally, but I love you and I want to see you have victory in this and walk in Truth! I have been offended in church so many times–too many to count. And we’ve always been in church leadership, so I wasn’t even allowed to talk about it to anyone because that violates the “Pastor’s Wives Code of Ethics”.
I hear you: you’re hurting, you’re children are hurting, you disagree with things, you feel like you don’t fit in. I know it’s hard, and maybe you do need to find a smaller church. But I strongly encourage you to try loving your church family God’s way first. Instead of trying to change everyone else, ask God how He can change your heart towards His people. It’s hard to be angry with someone when you’re actively loving on them and praying for them.
If you do everything you can and love without restraint or judgment and still feel that you cannot submit to the authority and vision of your current leadership, then it’s probably time to move on. Just be careful that you don’t carry your offense with you, or it will rear its ugly head in the next place. Forgive, learn, love, and move on. I believe that we are required to everything in our power to bring unity to the body of Christ. That’s why it’s almost always a sacrifice to love others, but we are required to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Laying down our lives also means laying down our pride, our control, our view of “how things should be”, and just loving people and always using the Scriptures as our standard.
I leave you with Ephesians 4:1-6, “I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
Blessings to you and your family as you are stretched,
Lindsey
That was good, Lindsey.
Just wanted to say we home church for different reasons. We are convicted in different ways.
I absolutely agree with you (for the most part), Lindsey, but I wanted to say that when I read Marie’s post I took from it that she has been loving others, and has been putting in years of loving other through their bumps. She sounds to have a realistic expectation of expected challenges whenever you get fallen people together.
I would respectfully disagree with you on the make-up and boyfriend concern, though. These tie into modest and sexual appropriateness (in my opinion), which the Bible speaks to in depth. Perhaps you are not convicted similarly on these issues, which is fine, but those that are do feel as if this is a scriptural issue. Especially in the tender teen years (even more especially for girls, I think), there’s a need for community with other like minded Christians, that will love, encourage and hold each other accountable.
Take care,
Rachel
Rachel,
If I did not sufficiently acknowledge MariePowell’s love for her congregation, I apologize. I did read that she loves the people, despite their “bumps”. But I also read, and please correct me if I misunderstood, that she wants to leave this body altogether because her family doesn’t fit in. Am I incorrect?
I completely understand not fitting in. It is hard and it hurts; I will never downplay that or shrug it off. Unfortunately, that is the world we live in. People are selfish, self-seeking, jealous, and prideful. Whether you’re in public school, church, or any other social gathering, there are ALWAYS going to be rude people who exclude others and do things we don’t agree with. That’s not church; that’s LIFE. I hate that those attitudes are in church, but they are. Until people hear Truth and repent themselves, it won’t change. That doesn’t mean that we break fellowship with people though.
If there were outright unscriptural happenings in the church, the first thing I’d do is go to the pastor and elders, armed with Scripture, and challenge them. Whether they listen or not is up to them, but that would be my biblical responsibility. What the original poster listed as her grievances against the church are not outrightly unbiblical. There is no Scripture that FORBIDS wearing make-up or dating. You and I are probably more on the same page than you think. I think little girls are wearing way too much makeup way too soon, and I will coach my daughter on how to properly apply makeup when she is old enough to wear it, if she chooses. My husband and I personally will not allow our children to date, but will guide them through courtships. That personal standard, however, does not give us permission to break fellowship with other parents who do allow dating. That is their choice, and we will choose to respect it, even if we disagree.
I just think it sends a wrong message to our kids if we leave a church over issues such as these. Of course, each family must prayerfully decide what they can handle and what is a deal-breaker.
To MariePowell again, I truly was not trying to imply that you weren’t loving your church people enough. I do hope I didn’t come across that way. It’s just a big deal to think about leaving a body of believers–especially because so much of the New Testament talks about being in unity with one another. 1 Corinthians 11 even warns us not to take the Lord’s Supper if there is division amongst the people because it brings sickness and even death. Unity is a big deal. I just don’t want to see you hurt even more or regretting this down the road, that’s all. I think it’s totally natural for like-minded people to come together and form relationships. All of our close friendships are with people who homeschool, eat healthy, keep their kids with them in church, etc., and none of them goes to church with us. Unfortunately, we have not made any close friendships with people in our church. But I’m OK with that. We still love our people, serve them, and lead them into God’s presence–we don’t have to be best friends with all of them.
If you can find other places for your children to make friends and still stay in your church (or just part of any church), I would encourage that over isolating your family from other believers through a house church. Again, please accept my apology if I offended in any way.
Blessings,
Lindsey
This may sound like a really dumb question but I will ask anyway for clarity. My understanding of a “house church” is that it is still a church in the respect that you are gathering together with other believers other than your own family on an ongoing basis to worship together and fellowship with one another, pray together, build each other up and learn from scriptures together. Wasn’t this exactly what they did in the New Testament early churches? The reason I am asking this is because in some of the posts it seems as though “house church” is being meant to refer to simply staying at home together with your family and having a time set apart to worship as a family. Which, to me, isn’t church but more like family devotions and worship time. Am I way off base here? Did the OP mean finding a house church and joining that as their church family or did you mean just staying at home with your own family and doing a family worship time?
My response to an issue such as this will greatly differ depending on what you meant by “house church”.
I will say, though, that my family deals with very similar issues and I know exactly how difficult it is to deal with!
Blessings,
Miranda
- Just checked in, and wanted to say I so appreciate the encouragement and scriptural references to meditate. Just to clarify, I had heard that some ‘home church” with a few like-minded families; they study, worship etc. in their homes instead of a large congregation. I had nevr heard of this before until I met some families in the new co-op we joined that do this. I just wondered if many do this, and how well does it go for different families. LindseyD., I so appreciate your post and with permission, would like to share it with my husband and kids. It really convicted me. No offenses taken; truth in love may not be what we want to hear, but is needed. We may be allowing the enemy to use anger and emotion to cloud our judgment. I can honestly say, we do ‘know’ these people; “warts and all” we say in good humor. We have been on mission trips with many members, and have travelled from Mexico to Lake Michagan. The parents are wonderful people, that’s what seems so strange to us. It just seems like the kids don’t reflect the kind families they are raised from. I didn’t mean to sound judgemental about make-up and boys , I only meant that my daughter has little if anything in common with the girls her age (in fact, sounds like she could be good friends with the “undomesticated” girl who loves archery and drawing mentioned above!) My son likewise has nothing in common with the boys (since they have outgrown some common interests). All this aside, our pastor does in fact give sound, biblical teachings every Sunday, as does our Sun. school teacher. We just hate to see the kids wilt and dread going to church. But, as you said, this is no light matter. Maybe we could in fact simply let them come to our adult class; avoid the situations (SS & youth group activities) and stick together when at church. We can discuss these options . I don’t want to stumble anyone or cause harm by making the wrong decsion. If the kids are willing to stay, so will dh and myself. Thank you all for honesty, I appreciate this more than you could know.
@Marie Powell: it is ironic that you mentioned that your dd would probably be good friends with my dd (the archer), because one of my dd’s best friends is autistic. I don”t remember where she is on the spectrum but her mother took her out of ps because of the cruel children. she has blossomed tremendously in the hs community! my dd would probably like her just fine!
Permission granted, MariePowell. I breathed a big sigh of relief when I saw your response. I can tell that you’re teachable, and that’s a great place to be! I know God will show you exactly what to do!
Hi Marie,
As an advocate of home church, I just wanted to add a few thoughts to this gracious conversation.
First, I highly recommend you read a few things if you (and your mate) are genuinely interested in home church:
Pagan Chrisianity – George Barna
Reimagining Church – Frank Viola
http://www.site.house2house.com/
An excellent article on the true meaning of ekklesia:
http://ellisabethe.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/i-cant-find-church-in-the-bible/
And now I am really going to stick my foot in it (sorry Lindsey).
The NT church was ‘ekklesia’ – an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ who were committed to prayer and relationship with Him. They didn’t need a building. They usually didn’t have access to a Bible. They were believing that God would reveal Himself to them throught the power of the Holy Spirit as they walked in relationship with Him and with each other in love. And guess what – He DID!
The problems with modern day churches are many. Even the concept of a division in the age groups was not present in the NT church. Jewish children were considered accountable for their own sins at 12 years of age, and were admitted to the church or not based on their own statement of faith (evidenced by baptism, spiritual fruit, etc). So to act in an unlovely, un Christ like manner as a ‘teenager’ would have been addressable by the leaders of the early church. Is it addressable in today’s church? Nope.
Why?
1. Delayed Adolescence of America’s youth (a post WWI phenomenon).
2. The belief that the church should draw in the unsaved – rather than creating believers who are THEN welcomed into the loving arms of Jesus’ body.
Not showing love in church may be ‘real’ in our world, but it doesn’t make it any less wrong in God’s eyes.
I would encourage you to read more, pray more, and follow the Holy Spirit. Read about Whitefield, Moody, Wesley…the great reformers and evangelists were not part of the accepted ‘church’. The reason Whitefield was able to preach to 30,000 at a time in the open air was that the church refused to allow him to preach regeneration from the pulpit.
I love, love, love God’s people (His ekklesia). But I don’t believe you are in rebellion or forsaking the assembly if you choose to meet with others in an environment where issues of your heart are taken seriously and addressed.
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