Name: CHEC Rocky Mountain Homeschool Conference
Start: 2025-06-12T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-06-14T23:59:59-05:00
Location: Denver, CO

Tagged: art of argument, bluedorn, cap, classical academic press, fallacy detective, Logic

This topic has 15 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 12 months ago by Bookworm.

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June 15, 2012 at 1:02 pm
jeaninpa
Participant
I’m trying to choose which logic program to go with. I already own Fallacy Detective, but the Art of Argument looks good as well. Bookworm already said in another thread that she preferred the Art of Argument plus I really like Classical Academic Press materials, so that’s tipping the scale a bit (‘cuz I really like Bookworm’s opinions as well). Can anyone else chime in with opinions of these? Also, what do I need for them? I think the Fallacy Detective just has the book, whereas Art of Argument has a teacher’s edition and a student book…. I think. Do I need them both?
Thanks,
Jean

June 15, 2012 at 2:14 pm
my3boys
Participant
Yes, I’d like to know, too.
June 15, 2012 at 2:55 pm
crazy4boys
Participant
What ages are you using them for? Not that I’m Bookworm, but I think she uses the Fallacy Dectective and Thinking Toolbox for younger kids (ages 10ish) and then moves into the Classical Academic Press material. If your child is older (junior high/high school) I’d just use the CAP stuff. We’re using Thinking Toolbox with boys ages 8, 11 and 12 and will then do Fallacy Dective then the CAP books. It’s working as a gentle intro to logic for them, something we’ve never tackled before. Just my 2 cents.
June 15, 2012 at 2:59 pm
jeaninpa
Participant
Yep, I should have included ages. I’m looking at using it for my 13 and 14 year old. I have three younger tagging along and most likely listening in, so maybe we could just do Fallacy Detective together this year and do Art of Argument, etc. all together when the youngers get older. I’m a big fan of combining ages if at all possible. How do you think that will work?
June 15, 2012 at 3:26 pm
momto2blessings
Participant
I’m not Bookworm, but have quizzed her on logic programs:) Michelle, please correct me if I’m mistaken!!!
She seemed to think Bluethorn could be a good starting point for me…they’re popular and reasonably priced. But she often disagreed w/the materials and conclusions. She’d have her sons read during the day and they’d discuss at night (once a week). She said she really liked CAP’s materials better and the Art of Argument was doable by 6th or 7th grade.
Michelle, hope you jump in and let us know if I understood you correctly:) Gina
P.S. I’ve bought both Bluethorn books and they look interesting, so I’m planning on doing the Fallacy Detective next year with my 7th grader, and 4th grader tagging along. I plan on using the Art of Argument in h.s.
June 15, 2012 at 3:51 pm
my3boys
Participant
What if you’re behind the times and are just starting out with these ideas/subjects with an 8th grader?? If we did this as a family subject the younger ones would tag along so they would get it at a younger age, but the oldest wouldn’t, obviously. We are about a year or two behind the recommended grades/levels that Bookworm, or most of you, are with your kids, ARGH.
What would be best?? Start with something easier,then for 9th grade jump up OR just go ahead with the something for his age/grade even if he hasn’t done the other stuff??
Hope that made sense…I’m in a hurry.
June 15, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Rachel White
Participant
For the younger set there is a series of books by BOnnie Risby called:
Gr. 3-4- Logic Countdown: http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Countdown-Bonnie-Risby/dp/1593630875/ref=pd_sim_b_4
Gr. 4-6 – Logic Liftoff: http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Liftoff-Bonnie-Risby/dp/1593630883/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b
Gr. 5-7 -Orbiting with Logic: http://www.amazon.com/Orbiting-With-Logic-Bonnie-Risby/dp/1593631162/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c
I didn’t come across them till last year, so I started my 4th and 5th graders (10 and 11) on the first one. Next year, I’m going to start my son w/Orbiting w/Logic for when we are away from home and The Art of Argument at home. My dd will just enter into Logic Liftoff.
However, for those who already have FD and TT, I’d use what you have.
June 15, 2012 at 4:46 pm
my3boys
Participant
So if you don’t have anything as of yet (haven’t purchased anything) would starting at the “beginning” be too juvenile for my 8th grader?? I guess I could look at their website, and I will, but wanted some “expert” advice from my fellow CMers.
Thanks. And, thanks for the links to the Logic books, Rachel.
June 15, 2012 at 5:07 pm
momto2blessings
Participant
I haven’t done a lot….just a bit of Mind Benders and Reading Detective from Critical Thinking Co. We haven’t started Fallacy Detective yet, but I don’t think it would be juvenile. My dd will be newly 13 when we start it. I guess it depends on whether you want to combine younger kids, and what all logic programs you want to complete (to make sure you get in what you’d like w/your oldest). Hopefully the more experienced will chime in! Blessings, Gina
June 15, 2012 at 6:03 pm
my3boys
Participant
Thanks Gina. After rereading some of the other posts, I see that crazy4boys said that the CAP series would be good for a jr. higher.
Crazy that it takes so much discussing/searching just for one thing!! But, I know that I hate to make bad purchases or not purchase what I should’ve purchased. I know, I know….we all make bad purchases, but I really don’t like to, LOL.
I appreciate everyone’s thoughts even though I’m not the OP.
Also, I know that I can always sell or use with my younger peeps.
June 16, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Bookworm
Participant
Hey, one of my favorite topics! Sorry I’m “late” on the conversation, I was away at teen girl’s church camp this week. I got back yesterday and saw the discussion but was too tired to do anything about it. I think I’m recovering now.

Yes, the Bluedorn books are fine. We did have a few quibbles with some of the presentation–we disagreed with some of the conclusions and some of the examples didn’t show what they THOUGHT they showed, for example. We had really, really lively discussions. My two older were about in the junior high range when we did them. My younger listened in, and some ideas he picked up and some went over his head. We just didn’t worry about it. When we started the CAP materials, though, we liked them a lot better. Yes, the teacher’s manual is good unless you are already pretty knowledgeable about the info. We thought they were just clearer. I have let my current 12yo read in the Bluedorn books for fun, but we aren’t going to repeat them as a “course”–we will just do the CAP materials with him, as I think they are clearer. I’m not sure I want to start them with him this year, though, so we are looking at things he might use. One other earlier sort of thing, which SOUNDS interesting but has not been released yet, is a new Critical Thinking Press book called the Basics of Critical Thinking. I check back with them every week or so to see if the sample is on the website. I want to see how “workbooky” they made it.
So I do personally like the CAP books better. They could probably be used junior high but I want that high school credit so I’m not in a hurry to get there. The Bluedorn books are fun and good discussion spurs. And this year, being an election year, is a REALLY REALLY good time to study informal logic. There’s a LOT of nonsense out there these days! Read from the book, listen to a few speeches, watch some political ads, and you’ll have plenty of fodder for discussion!
June 16, 2012 at 4:21 pm
Misty
Participant
Michelle? Girls church camp? You have 3 boys.. am I missing somethiing? LOL Just kidding you I’m sure you had a blast and encouraged those girls a ton!
June 16, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Bookworm
Participant
LOL. Yes, I know. Actually, that’s been my church assignment this last year, and I’ve had a blast “borrowing” people’s daughters. We had a terrific time, even though we had a service project involving hauling gravel uphill in 90 degree heat.
June 16, 2012 at 5:40 pm
crazy4boys
Participant
I love that you went to girl’s camp! I personally love Father-Son campouts at my house. I get to watch girl movies and eat ice cream without anyone complaining about said girl movies.
I think it’s a great idea to save the CAP stuff until high school so they can get a “credit” for doing it.
June 11, 2013 at 3:30 am
missceegee
Participant
Bumping this up for Michele, but I welcome other input as well.
I was planning to use CAP’s The Art of Argument for a fall semester (12 weeks of 60 minute classes) co-op class. I have the books and dvd and just sat down to watch the first couple of segments. I’ve first realized that I see no way of covering all of the material in our alloted class time. Second, I’m concerned that it may be too challenging for new 7th graders and a couple of 8th graders. Frankly, while I consider myself to be a logical, common sense type of gal, this is all new to me! I’m wondering if I’ve made a mistake and if I should modify the class somehow. Also, credits are important, so maybe this is best delayed a bit. In that case, what have you used to fit this need at this age?
Thanks,
Christie