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Have we outgrown our church? LONG
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I come to you tonight to ask for your prayers and possibly for your advice. I have attended the same church since I was 6 years old. My husband has been there since he was 17. That is where we both accepted Jesus as our Savior, where we both were baptized and where we married. My husband is currently a deacon, we teach Sunday school, etc. (you know the drill) My dilemma is this: Starting about 2 years ago God began changing our family. He called us to home educate right out of the blue and since we began home educating so many more things were brought to our attention that needed to happen in our lives. We were your typical family…church going, tried to live right, etc. Then God began doing a work in us and things changed. BIG TIME. We gradually received revelations from God about certain things in our life. For example: how my daughter and I dressed, what it means for me to be a help meet, home education, things we listened to and watched, things we exposed our kids to, family worship instead of separating at church, among other things. The problem is now we feel like we have nothing in common with anyone we go to church with. Quite frankly we feel like nobody understands us and we are constantly having to defend our choices. There are no other homeschoolers in our church and nobody else who feels the same way about most things as we do. And to be horribly honest, the children in our youth are just allowed to run amuck. They listen to inappropriate music, the girls dress immodestly and yet nobody seems to have a problem with it but us. So as of right now, we do not allow our kids to be a part of the kids’ program. 5 years ago, I don’t think I would have had this problem but God has really opened our eyes and we are not willing to budge on our convictions. At this point we have decided to step back from all our duties and really try to assess what God wants us to do. Our church being a small church this has already caused problems. Last night after our first Wednesday night service without being involved with the youth, our family just worshipping together, the pastor asked to speak with my husband. He had heard that we quit teaching and wanted to make sure nothing was wrong and that we weren’t leaving. After my husband explaining we just wanted to step back, he says…..I wanted to ask you something. I know this is between you and your wife but why don’t you let your kids be involved in the kids’ program?…..My husband goes on to say that we believe in family worship and that as long as our kids want to be in the sanctuary with us and they are not disturbing and they are enjoying it, that’s how it will be. He then asks…..not kidding…..”Do you think they spend too much time with you?” “Don’t you want them to be around other people?” What does that have to do with anything? As a homeschooler and someone who never “goes with the tide” so to speak I expect things like this from the world but your own church! My husband just said no and ended the conversation. The people we got to church with really aren’t bad people, we’re not bashing our church. We just don’t know if we fit there anymore. Ya know? What to do!? We love so many things about our church. The gospel is preached on a weekly basis, but it seems as though we are the only ones hearing it! I have cried out to God everyday for his will on what to do. Do we stay and try to work it out? Do we go? Ultimately I just want to be somewhere that God can use me and my family. My husband is just over it. Please pray for our family. Either choice will be hard. I would love your prayers and advice……Sorry so long and thanks in advance!
Britney,
My family has “been there, done that”. It is an agonizing process, we did much prayer and fasting over it, and to make a long story short, we are now at a family integrated church where our children are just as important in worship as we are. It sounds like the leaders of your current church were giving you direction which is a good thing for them to do, but is it the direction that you and your hubby are being called to? Have you researched other churches in your area? God knows the place for you, just keep praying until you know and be open to new opportunities. We were taken to a different theology in the end! Looking back it is amazing where we came from and now to be in a whole different kind of church is a blessing. It is not a comfortable process. We had to stretch in so many ways!!! But know that God is working it all for His purposes, no matter what.
Here is a good sight for fic churches….http://familyintegratedchurch.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=9
It might help you in contacting someone who could help. We talked to a lot of people along the way! May the Lord bless your family.
Here is an even better source for Family Integrated Churches… Lots more to choose from I think.
Hi Britney,
Before I say anything I would like to preface by stating that only the Lord can tell you and your husband where to go to church. He will direct you, confirm it to you, and you will obey. That said, I am trying to put myself in your shoes. I can see what a difficult place you’re in right now. Kind of between a rock and a hard place, right? I believe God can use anything, including others’ choices, lifestyle, etc., to show me truth (and untruth). What if the Lord has you in the church you’re in so that your family can set an example? I’m not claiming to have a word from God for you, but that could be a possibility. He may have you right where you’re at “for such a time as this”.
You can’t force your convictions on anyone at the church, obviously; but you and your family can live righteously, according to your convictions and remain in the church as wonderful examples (as long as you’re not passing judgment on others…not saying you are though). I think it is wise to step down from your roles as teachers and leaders and examine your hearts and pray for direction. But in your praying and examining, remember that the Gospel of Jesus is not a comfortable gospel. We don’t get to do what makes us comfortable or feel better or whatever. He told us men would hate us because of Him. We can’t escape from the world, even in church unfortunately, but we can do what He told us to do and be a light in the darkness. God has not called me to be comfortable in my Christianity. He has asked us to do some crazy, weird things over the years that made no sense whatsoever to the world around us. We have received criticism for our family’s choices even from Bible-believing “Christians”.
I’m really not trying to preach at you, so please don’t read this that way. I’m simply saying that no church is perfect. No matter where you attend, there’s always going to be something you don’t agree with. There are always going to be people who look at you and judge, or even whisper about you behind your back. It’s the nature of the beast. I just wanted to present the other side of the coin. Your family’s attendance at this church may be one of the things God uses to shed light and truth on this particular body of believers.
One more thing: I recommend reading the book Radical by David Platt. It is challenging and growing my husband and me in a really cool way right now. I recommend it to everyone (but prepare to have your toes stepped on a little bit).
I pray you and your husband hear God’s voice above all things,
Lindsey
I have a very, very long, many years story to tell that you may relate to, but I have the flu and am not alert enough tonight. We have been in your position. It has been a very long process (I would estimate about 14 years from start to finish) but the things the Lord has shown us have taken some time as we had to rid our minds of what we always assumed was right and biblical but was simply the opinion of man.
We are home churching and it has been an answer to many prayers and trials. Leaving, for us, had nothing to do with youth issues or any issues for that matter. It was all about worshipping as a whole family without the separation because this is what the Lord has shown us to be our “right.”
A couple of things that supported our decision were acknowleging that “the church” refers to the believers, the body, and not a building, and Matthew 18:20 which is a promise from God. Also, fellowship with other believers can come in many different ways; park day, field trip day, a Bible study, a Mom’s Night. The list is endless, but you probably get the point.
Praying for peace for you,
Nedra
It has never occured to me that churches purposely have separate worship time for adults and children (unless it is offered and that is what you choose). Could you please describe to me what that means, to not have that choice?
We are members of a body of believers that has a small youth ‘chapel’ time during worship/sermon time, but noone would ever say it was mandatory. It is offered, we utilize it (I help lead it), but some parents/grandparents prefer their children with them…plus our age range for this is baby/toddler-8yo, and even some 8yos would rather stay in for the sermon. Doesn’t hurt my feelings….it’s just an option. When my youngest gets a little older, we’ll all be in the sanctuary together and noone will think anything of it.
By comparison, we are a part of a very small church so we don’t have youth that ‘are running amuck’…but I grew up in a church that was similar to what you describe (speaking of the youth). I definitely grew out of that and grew up and have no desire to make sure my kids have ‘youth’ to hang out with just for the sake of fellow Christian friends, needless to say, our church is so small we don’t have what you would call a ‘youth group’. And I’m okay with that.
I have to go right now, but can’t wait to read more responses. Plus, I have had my own experience with having to leave a church…and it was heartbreaking, to say the least. I’ll post that when I can. Maybe some of you can relate, we’ll I hope not, but ykwim:)
You have been given great advice already. But just one more thing. You can easily pick 1 service to visit another church. There is no harm in that and if at that point to decided to stay where you are then so be it.
I totally see what others are saying. On both sides.
This is just my .02, so please just take it that way. To me a Church is not only a place to worship but the members are a family. Not family just in that we are all Christians, but we build each other up and are there for each other.
While it is human to sometimes judge others we get over ourselves and understand that we all come form different places and are at different places in our Christian walk. If our Church family was totally different from us but accepted us for who we were then we would feel at home and safe enough to worship there. I agree with Lindsey that you cannot expect others to be doing what you are doing and living the way you are living, but you also should not have to go to Church and be shunned. Maybe God is using you as an example or maybe he desires for you to go to a Church where you will be loved and are around other more like you. Only you can decided that.Dear Britney,
I can relate to how you feel. I think that probably most homeschooling families feel like this at some point. I don’t profess to have an answer for you, but I wanted to share with you a very thorough and well-written series of articles I just came across this week that have got me thinking.
Homeschooling mom Karen Campbell has a website called thatmom.com where she offers wonderful food for thought on this topic in her series entitled The Pros and Cons of the Family Integrated Church. She shares her own experiences from over 2 decades of struggling with what you’re describing and what worked and didn’t work for her family.
I’m just getting to know Karen by reading through her blog and as a young mother I’ve been so encouraged!
~Anna
Oh my…is this ever timely and confirming to me. I don’t have any advice, but just felt I need to share recent God confirmation in my life about this topic.
I have been feeling the same way. Thankfully homeschooling is “normal” at our church so that’s not an issue, but they do pride themselves on the children’s ministry. I just wrote an email to our pastor a few weeks ago discussing how I felt the our church was coming across as anti kids in church (backed it up with info from Family Driven Faith and The Family Worship Book). Their bulletin even read something to the effect of bring your children to our safe and loving children’s ministry so that “you and those around you can focus on God’s message for you today.” Whoa! So God doesn’t have a word or message for my children? Hello? They did change the wording, which is a step in the right direction. Thankfully I don’t feel questioned about our decision, but I felt that other’s my read the bulletin and not be at a place to buck the system.
We were considering switching to a new church and yesterday I was talking to a friend that goes to the potential new church. I brought up children in worship and she went on and on and on about the usefulness of it and how great it is for them and so on and so forth. I left the conversation feeling a little beat up. I emailed another friend about my feelings and then went in to a birthday party for a friend of the girls. God was so faithful to meet me last night. There were only 2 other moms–the mom of the birthday girl and one other friend. The 1st mom just removed her daughter from children’s church about 2 months ago and the other family home churches.
Then this morning I get on here to see this conversation! THANK YOU! God is doing so much confirming for me about this. I am just in awe…. Off to check out that blog!
I agree – I think this is a timely topic. It’s hard to leave a church, we left ours recently and it’s hard to tell people and to maintain friendships, I just pray that if you leave, God quickly ushers you into a new fellowship, as we have been blessed greatly by our new church home and the encouragment of being in the “right” place.
Just a word of respectful dissent about the blog mentioned above. I read through a good number of “parts” in the 13 part series and I did not find the title to be representative of the article – I was looking forward to some constructive discussion of pros and cons of Family Integrated Churches and that might have appeared at the VERY end of the series, but the bulk of the series was this family’s own very bad experience with their churches (including their decision to remain at a church for several years AFTER an elder told them they must never mention homeschooling at church.) In between this she talks about the “racist teachings” of the books sold on vision forum lumped in the same paragraph that she discusses some members of her church that believed the KKK had done good things.
I don’t want to discourage something that might be encouraging to someone else, but I’d like to save you some precious minutes by encouraging you to skip the drama of the first 12ish parts in the series to where she gets down to discussing actual traits of family integrated churches – for better or worse.
Blessings,
Rebekah
Hi all,
I’m sorry if I offended anyone by referring to the series on family-integrated churches. I don’t claim to agree with everything that the author says, but I when I read something, I usually glean what I can from it. When I took all of the parts of the series together (and yes, it is long), what I came away with was an older woman simply offering things to think about on the topic and I think she had some points that really should be considered.
Perhaps it was unwise of me to refer Britney to that particular series. Again, I apologize if it has offended.
~Anna
I am just telling you women….this site is such an amazing group of people! I never imagined when I began CM education and joined that I could come to you with anything and I would leave it with such encouragement. Thank you to each and every one of you that have left comments and promises pf prayer. You do not know how much I have needed it. It’s so funny how when you follow the call to homeschool…..you have no idea how God is going to use that as an avenue to change, grow and mature you in so many areas of your life. Five years ago I would never have thought I’d be deciding to leave the church I’ve always called home. But when God starts moving in your life, you can’t help but be changed. Please keep my family in your prayers as my husband has decided that moving on would be best for his family. It will be hard but I know that God is faithful. He has never forsaken me and he never will. When I let my mind ponder all the things years we have poured our heart into this church and it’s people, I am heartbroken. But I know that we cannot continue in the status quo. Things will never be the same. My husband thinks we have just grown up and we have changed. He feels as though now we are looking for something different. As sad as I am , I agree. It’s not really what’s going on there, who said what or what we don’t agree with. I think it’s just a crossroads in our life and God is leading us down an unknown path. I have never been to another church in my whole life so this is all so big of a change. Please pray that God leads us to the place where we belong for the time. God BLess each and every one of you.
By the way…thanks for the book and article suggestions…I plan to sit down tonight and go over them.
Tand C93: What is the Family Worship Book? Sounds interesting!
It’s so hard for any of us to offer advice because we’re not in your shoes and don’t know the people and full situations. So let me share a story from our own lives…
Many years ago we decided not to have our young teens participate in youth group at the church we attended. It was our desire to spur our children on to maturity rather than participate in activities that fostered immaturity or spent much time on how to deal with living in the public school system.
Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ.(Col 1:28)
So I started by taking our son to a midweek men’s Bible study with me. I talked it over with our pastor ahead of time and explained our goals so it wouldn’t be a surprise. He was encouraged by what we wanted to accomplish. It worked out well and we followed suit with our other children as they became teens.
Over the years it has been such a blessing to see our children interact and be accepted by the adults as fellow believers. We’ve seen other families follow our lead with their children too. And as our kids have come to know these wonderful people of all ages, understanding has grown and no one feels like they need to help us make sure our children are properly socialized.
Remember, you are changing things up for people who have only known one way of doing things. Apply much grace. Take your time to teach them and explain your reasoning. None of us grasps everything all at once.
Let some things slide that are just preferences and not Biblically mandated. Some choices are simply chocolate or vanilla where good Christians can choose their own flavor. That’s okay and good.
However, Christians are commanded to deal with sin issues. If there are Biblical or sin problems then they should be confronted . . . with gentleness. Be prepared to back it up with scripture, though. If the the gospel is preached on a weekly basis, as you have said, then this will be appreciated in the long run.
I’ll wrap this up with scripture since it speaks better and more authoritatively than I ever can…
I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (Ephesians 4:1-3)
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. (2 Timothy 23-25)
Thanks for the links in this thread! I was able to spend some time reading and listening yesterday. I’m looking forward to listening to more from the NCFIC site. Interesting! I read through that person’s series on FIC…. Lots of valid points, but I’d probably have taken in more without the overt bias against NCFIC, Doug Philips, Voddie, etc…. I think it would have given her argument more weight.
Thanks again!
Britney, I’ve been trying to read and soul search this one for a while. This wonderful group have some great ideas and book suggestions. I found The Family Worship Book on Amazon and came and asked here about it. Check out this thread on here…
http://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/family-worship#post-25411
I just went back and reread the thread and realized I missed a book suggestion. Need to go check it out!
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