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Grammar – is diagramming really important?
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The English program I was schooled with teaches things that college students have said they didn’t learn. It was an awesome program and I learned things that have definitely helped in learning a foreign language.
I will make my kids learn to diagram (using the program I learned from) even if they hate it. Never hurts to have extra tools. 🙂
I wonder if this has something to do with “whole to part” learners versus “part to whole” learners. Just a thought. Perhaps the whole to part’s take in the big picture of the sentence and then are able to break it down into parts, and the part to whole’s break the sentence into parts, and then take in the big picture of the sentence. I don’t even know if I worded that in a way that makes sense. I have one child whose mind seems to work this “part to whole” way and I could see him getting great benefit from diagramming. My two oldest girls and I are definitely “whole to part” so perhaps that’s why I haven’t seen it as necessary for us.
I get your point, Bookworm, about the steak knife versus the chef’s knife. Do you have an example you could share? A sentence that we might not be getting the full meaning of? Not in the interest of arguing or proving anyone wrong… just because I’m curious.
If I come to a difficult sentence that I really can’t make sense of, I do break it down in my head. I honestly can’t see how diagramming it on paper would make a difference. If I’m wrong, I’d like to know. Maybe I am only able to do this in my head because of the years I spent diagramming. I honestly don’t know.
This is an interesting topic to me. I love to try to figure out how and why certain things are highly beneficial for some while seemingly meaningless for others.
We haven’t done any diagramming at all and my daughter is a good writer. One of the most beneficial aspects of homeschooling is the opportunity to school our children according to our preferences. What is great for one child may be totally unneccessary for others.
I’m reposting my earlier post. It included a sentence that has been diagrammed. Discussion of intended meaning base on diagramming clarifies what might be misunderstood upon first glance.
HTH,
Becca<><
This is an example of discussion that may result from diagramming sentences with your children and how it can bring better understanding. We did this one during the 2011/12 school year.
Becca, I look at that diagram and want to run screaming in the other direction. I am never going to do anything like this in the real world.
LOL! That is what I felt like doing too! I am like, what is the big deal? I can understand the preamble w/out diagramming it, as long as I take it in slow and steady! 🙂
I found that diagramming was pretty helpful for my children when they started learning Latin. Diagramming helped them to understand better the different parts of speech and the functions they serve in the sentence. Obviously, it is possible to learn a foreign language without diagramming; I’ve just found it to be a useful tool. That said, my kids can’t diagram every sentence they come across. Neither can I, and I have a B.A. in English and actually enjoy diagramming. So while I think a basic knowledge of diagramming is (more or less) important, I also think you don’t have to go crazy learning the more complicated, advanced bits if you don’t want to.
Heh. I know it looks ridiculous, but with regards to state’s rights, diagramming the sentence is helpful. 🙂
I’m quite certain this is the place to start.
I am.
🙂
Blessings,
Becca<><
I’ve also found that the challenge of it tended to make my kids feel brilliant when they began to understand diagramming. It was a puzzle to be solved, not a drudgery at all. We tend to work together and discuss each word as we go.
My 13yos thought it ridiculous at first. Now he gets his sentence for the day finished in record time. I liken it to the language version of sudoku. ;0) sentences might be easy-difficult in level.
I just had to chime in that while I agree that what works for some may not work for others, when I was in college my Spanish professor took me aside after a class period one day and asked if I had gone to private school. When I told her yes, I had, she replied that most private schools require their students to learn to diagram in English classes and had I learned to do this because I had such a firm grasp of grammar.
Now, I don’t know if all the tedious diagramming I did in school actually did help me have a firm grasp of English grammar or not, but I can say that fully understanding English grammar really, really helps in learning a foreign language, particularly in college. There were so many students in my Spanish class who didn’t know what a direct object in English was, so how could they learn them in Spanish?
Just a thought. 🙂
I just wanted to quickly chime in to make a point to be considered: just because one doesn’t use a particular skill in the post-schooling world, it doesn’t mean that the mental discipline that is developed while learning that skill isn’t useful, and quite needed, in the real world; no matter what the future career or vocation.
Also, I agree with the Preamble/State’s Rights statement above; as well as the references to the deeper language studies and the enhancement that it provides in understanding G-D’s Word.
Okay, just following up on my previous post. I took some time to read through the link given above and loved it! It was fun to read through the diagramming pattern; it also make you think more, IMO; and the distinction made concerning using are and have versus is and has when referring to the United States makes perfect sense and is so important to the principles of our founding.
Our modern society has lost the tradition that words mean something and that how you put words together mean something, so that, to some degree, everyone does what is right in his own eyes.
Thanks for sharing the link; I will save it and be incorporating the lessons. My two will begin using R & S 5 next week and formal diagramming. I, too, look at it as a puzzle; it brings to life the words and makes you ask questions in your mind about the relationship of the words one to the other. I know that when I’m excited about something, showing that this is a way to mine for golden nuggets within the language, that kind of enthusiasm is contagious, even if it may prove a little tough for one or the other. Not to mention the value of the mental discipline that I think diagramming develops that is useful and worthwhile in-and-of-itself.
I enjoyed reading this thread. I also love to diagram sentences. I did not teach it to my oldest daughter. We really didn’t even “do” grammar. She did a ton of writing and reading good lit…and she made a perfect score on the English section of the ACT. She knows her grammar and uses it in her foreign language study without knowing the names of many of the parts. We learned subject, verb, adjective and adverb…she may have learned a bit about prepositions on her own…but that’s where it ends. We never used a curriculum for grammar. I think the “whole to part”/”part to whole” makes sense…and I think it’s personal preference and what you feel a need for as you go along. She didn’t really need it. But I’m glad I had it so I could tell that she had a good grasp and I could have helped her if she needed it. I probably would have taught her briefly how to do it if she hadn’t had five younger sibs. Maybe I’ll get around to it with some of them. But I’m not stressing over it. You have to prioritize sometimes, and what is a priority in a home with all older kids, often really can’t be in a home with many younger ones. The basic needs are too many. They can always learn these things later on their own if and when they need to. That applies to chemistry and any number of other things too. Teach them to learn. Then teach whatever else you can manage.
I agree with you, anniepeter. Priorities are a must in this area. Our eldest son learned diagramming in 7th grade with OMT. He is 21 now. I’m not sure he diagrams sentences very often. 🙂
The next two dc (now 20 & 18) learned diagramming when their younger brother (13 now, but 11 at the time) was learning it through CC’s Essentials assignments. It was part of his daily work while enrolled in CC for 1 year. They were curious about his endeavor and decided to participate in the daily sentence crunching he did that year. It was a great family game.
13yo is on his second tour of Essentials and it’s much easier for him this year than it was back in 2011-12. His younger sister is only 7. I don’t have plans for her to diagram a sentence for quite some time. This might not even happen until she’s the only one I’m homeschooling, but she’ll certainly be capable before that time.
All this to say that diagramming happened(s) at our house with older kids and when the younger ones are past toddlerhood. The older ones study it independently, or together during younger sibling nap time. :0). If any of them had missed it, I wouldn’t have felt they weren’t equipped for life, but I do feel they are more capable to comprehend complicated language situations (ex. The Preamble, Scripture, legal documents) as compared to their peers.
It’s certainly worth the effort, but not worth fear if it just can’t happen. To keep it in perspective, I approach it in a very simplistic CM fashion. Well, I don’t mean to say that I know how she taught/scheduled diagramming. It’s a one sentence per day, very short amount of time spent sort of mental sharpening activity. If it doesn’t happen, I don’t fret. The next sentence just keeps moving forward in time until it gets tackled (think CMO type scheduling.)
HTH,
Becca<><
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