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feeling about done with CM
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Hi all,
Ive posted here several times and I love this community. I am feeling like my kids aren’t learning very much with CM. Maybe I am doing it all wrong. I need some encouragement at this stage of being January and overwhelmed and frustrated at the fact that spelling in my house stinks, math is good, writing is horrible, need I go on. We are using the History and doing narrations and Science seems good. I’ve switched to All About Spelling. My dd 11 still cant spell larger words no matter how much copy work she does. I feel that she copies it just to check it off her list. I may not be teaching this whole CM properly. I don’t have time to read all Charlottes books. Today we rose at 8am and finished at 2pm. I don’t want to be the one who fails my children. A friend of mine said, “Why are you not doing Abeka or BOB Jones?” My replie to this was “I don’t like it.” So, what else can I do? Put them on the yellow bus? I wish we had a CM group here for support. I feel like when days are horrible and I feel like throwing in the towel that I could just call a fellow CM mom and discuss my day.
What do you all use for teaching writing at age 8,11? I’ve heard a lot of good about Brave writer but really don’t know a lot about it. if someone can chime in that would be great. I want to be a better HM. Sorry to be so negative, that isn’t my intentions. What all do you use for Bible? Do you just read the Bible and discuss? My kids just sit and are nonresponsive to my questions. I wondered if there was something else? Sorry to be so lengthy.
I think everyone gets frustrated and worried in the winter! I know I do, every year. Usually February for me. Let me see what I can answer of your questions.
1. Spelling – using just copywork and dictation has not worked for some of my kids (two seem to be fine with it so far, two not, and 5 yet to reach the spelling stage). All About Spelling is what we have for those who need more explicit instruction. It still will take time to learn to spell and some people struggle with it into adulthood. So don’t panic.
2. Writing and Brave Writer – I can chime in here! First, overall for writing, I love that CM wants your child to focus on narrating. It is hard for a child to write if they don’t have ideas filling their head to write about. Then CM has you begin a child doing one of those narrations written down each week beginning around 4th grade. This does not need to have great spelling, punctuation, and handwriting. It’s the ideas they are sharing that you really want to know.
Brave Writer takes it one step further. They break learning to write down into stages. Ages 5-8 are just narration – while mom Jots down the child’s words. There is a book available with 10 months of projects (1 per month) called Jot it Down, but basically, you spend a month working a couple times a week. Week 1 the child is soaking their brain with information. If you’re going to have them rewrite a fairy tale then in week 1 they read several versions of Rapunzel or The Frog Prince or Cinderella (etc). They are just soaking up information. (If they were older kids doing a report/poster about the gold rush they would spend the week reading books and watching videos or browsing websites about the topic). Week 2 for the fairy tale they might pick new characters and start narrating their story to you to write down. Each time they finish part of it they can illustrate. So maybe they are writing The Turkey Prince. (A Gold Rush week 2 could be writing down on index cards different things they found interesting about the gold rush, where it happened, when, what tools a prospector needed, how to recognize gold, etc. Anything they learned. They can open up those books again to help them find info.) Week 3 fairy tale would have them copying their words and gluing the illustrations on those pages. Or making a cover. Or continuing with telling their story to you and making illustrations. (Week 3 gold rush report/poster they would take those index cards of interesting facts and sort into the order they want it written about for a report and write it, or design the poster and where each piece of information goes like on an infographic, and start creating it.) Week 4 for both is finishing their publication/creation so it can be shared.
In Brave Writer around age 9 kids transition to Partnership Writing, which just means now you take turns with them doing some of the writing by hand (or typing) and you doing some while they narrate. This corresponds to CM beginning written narrations. 🙂 Then a couple years later they move more to Faltering Ownership – they are writing most or all of it, you become their sounding board, brainstorm buddy, and occasional scribe to get ideas on paper when they need it that support. There are more stages after that where kids are even more independent (Transition to Ownership is roughly early teen ages, you really are just a sounding board and editor usually at this stage).
Brave Writer also has project books out for stage 2 and 3 (Partnership Writing and Faltering Ownership). They offer other materials too for copywork and such, I don’t use them though generally. They suggest a whole lifestyle of activities in their project books that includes watching and discussing movies, copywork and dictation, poetry tea time, art appreciation, conversation, etc. Very CM friendly.
The best part is the ages are not set in stone. You start where your child is now stage wise and ignore the ages. You know what stage comes next and watch for signs that they are ready to move into that, support it, and just keep going.
I hope that helps!
I have many similar frustrations. I don’t have experience with Brave Writer, but have heard good things & interested in others experiences. I did want to recommend the spelling that has worked well for us is Sequential Spelling.
I have one natural speller and one unnatural speller. My natural speller does fine with dictation, but my unnatural speller needs spelling lessons. She absolutely loves AAS! It makes spelling so much easier for her.
For Bible, check out Precept’s Discover 4 Yourself series. It is a Bible study for kids. Your child acts like a detective looking for “clues” – they color code repeated words; answer who, what, when, where, and why; fill in a newspaper article or something similar; answer questions about the text and apply it to their lives. It is geared toward ages 8-12 who read and write. Younger children and non-readers can follow along orally. It can be done as a family or independently. I would recommend doing it together for the first book at least, esp if your kids are on the younger end. You can quiz them after a weekly lesson is completed for fun. Jonah is the easiest study and recommended as the first one, but there are a number of studies from which to choose.
http://store.precept.org/By-Series/discover-4-yourself-student-workbooks/
While there is no substitute for Charlotte Mason’s own writings to learn about her philosophy and methods for learning, our Learning Library has many articles and videos to help you understand how to teach each subject using Charlotte Mason’s methods and to encourage you as you homeschool your children.
My 9 year old is a struggling speller – he just can’t hear the sounds. Evidently my husband is the same way. That realization helped us tremendously b/c I finally started understanding the “whys” behind his struggles and our frustrations (when he was younger we butted heads a LOT, and I finally just quit phonics for a spell). Spelling You See has been a fantastic fit for him this year – he is finally spelling! It took until 9 years old, but he is spelling 3, 4, and (starting) 5 letter words! He has also gained a LOT of confidence as well, which is worth far more than book knowledge IMO. He started in book B, content wise it’s young for him, but skill level was perfect. He and his younger sister (7) are only a week apart in lessons.
No advice on Brave Writer, I have looked at it numerous times… Going to read Tristan’s post in more detail later on when I can focus – I think a “been there, done that” review will help me understand the mechanics of it a bit better.
Okay, well, for starters – take a deep breath. They’re not “struggling”, they’re exactly where they should be for CM 🙂
I’m going to copy the recommendations from Ambleside Online for language arts, which are based on Charlotte Mason’s own writings. I think you’ll find some comfort in them 😉
Ambleside Online Scope and Sequence for Language Arts
This may look a little different from the usual scope-and-sequences you will find, but it is based on the methods of Charlotte Mason, combined with the practical experience of Advisory members. No one should feel “locked in” to doing exactly what is in the scope and sequence. You may choose to use curricula not mentioned here to achieve the same goals. However, this scope and sequence provides an overview of the way language arts, as a whole, are covered in a Charlotte Mason education.
Grades 1-3
Phonics/Reading instruction plus Oral Narration (oral composition) of various subjects–literature, history, picture study, and so on: This is absolutely foundational to the entire Charlotte Mason method. Allow your student a year or two to develop into a fluent narrator, but do not neglect this part of language arts. Copywork: (This will expose children to the form of written sentences on a page, and be the beginning of learning to spell, as well as covering handwriting practice). You may choose to use a handwriting curriculum as well, but be careful not to burden young children with too much written work. Less is more, and children should write only as much as they can write perfectly.
Grades 4-6
Reading: Children should begin reading most of their schoolbooks for themselves during this time. Oral Narration of various subjects: This continues to be an important part of “composition.” Written Narration: begun around age 10-11. (Handwritten or typed narrations are fine) You should accept most written narrations without attempting to correct all the mistakes. Becoming proficient with written narration will take a couple of years. Begin with one written narration per week, and increase to 2, then 3, as your child is ready to do more writing. Once a month, perhaps, you may want to edit and correct one narration.) Beginning Grammar. (Once the child is writing, he has more use for grammar. You may choose to use a purchased curriculum, such as Simply Grammar, but it will also be sufficient during these years to teach more informally, limiting instruction to the eight or nine parts of speech, the four basic types of sentences (declarative, interrogative, imperative, exclamative), and a couple of simple punctuation and capitalization rules.) Dictation: This exercise will improve a child’s spelling, but it does take time. You may choose to use a spelling curriculum, but many parents find that a child’s spelling improves dramatically after a year or two of dictation. Typing: A typing program such as Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing can prepare your child for written narration, and will remove the burden of handwriting from the process of composition. Charlotte Mason didn’t advocate this, but she never had the option. If a child learns to touch type–speed is not important–during the year that he is nine, he may find written narration much easier at age 10 or so.
So, what do you notice for grade 1-3? What is NOT listed? Writing and spelling. Why? Because CM did not teach these to children this age. It is perfectly acceptable for an 8 year old to be a poor speller. She did not do any written narrations, compositions etc… with 8 year old children. It was merely copywork and oral narration. That it’s. So I wouldn’t worry one iota about your 8 year old.
For grade 4-6, notice that she said begin written narrations around age 10 or 11. This means that it is perfectly fine for an 11 year old to be just beginning writing. The key word is: beginning. Do we expect a beginner to be an expert? No. It takes time, years of practice. Writing is no exception (notice they specifically state this). Also notice that when starting written narrations, she recommended starting with only one a week. So, again, with your 11 year old, that they are struggling with writing, really nothing to worry about at this point. Instead, look to their oral narrations? How are they? Are they well thought out and composed? Focus more on the oral compositions if you want to strengthen the written ones.
As for the spelling, by this stage you should be doing dictation, not just copywork. Are you doing dictation daily for spelling? If not, start. That may very well be your problem. Again – notice that they say it can take a couple years of dictation to notice improvements in spelling. So, before you rush out and buy a program – start your daily dictation, and give it a full year. If, after a year you’re not seeing any improvements, then look into a spelling program.
In all honesty, I highly doubt you need Brave Writer for either child, and you definitely don’t need spelling yet for your youngest, possibly not for your oldest (though again, another year will give you a better idea). More than anything, I think you just need to trust the process. Charlotte Mason followed a developmentally appropriate scope and sequence for learning, one that gives the child time to develop a skill, instead of trying to rush it. It’s a completely different approach to most homeschool and public school curriculums today. It feels odd, and it’s easy to worry when you get to comparing to the “box”, but trust it.
Renee… Your son sounds just like my daughter! She is also 9 and using SYS Jack and Jill and finally gaining some confidence. Her 6yo brother is only a few weeks behind her.
2corinth57… Thanks for posting that. I’ve wondered how in the world I was going to start written narrations with this girl next fall, but you’ve reminded me it’s OK to wait till 11 if she’s not ready. 🙂
Don’t give up!! I have been there so many times over the last year. I have 5th, 6th and 7th grade this year plus pre-school. We switched to CM about three months into the school year. That really helped bring back our “love” for school. Right now we are not doing everything I want to do each day because my health has been down (due to stress) and our house is on the market (big factor in my stress). So now I am thinking about next year and planning for next year when I swore they were going back to public school after we moved.
Everyone needs a love for learning and if they don’t love it and you don’t love it then its going to be a struggle. My 7th grader is horrible at spelling. We started out with AAS this year and they basically looked at me like it was a joke. We are going to use the Spelling Wisdom next year. I really like that it covers the 6,000 most frequently used words.
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