classical approach

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  • jill smith
    Participant

    Hi all,

    Today we had an outing to a Classical Conversations campus and I was blown away by the amount of stuff they do in a day.My daughter are 10 and 7 and my daughter 10 felt like she was dumb because she didn’t know half of what these kids knew.On that note so did I. She is struggling learning her math fact and I cant believe how much grammar they learned. To be completely honest I really don’t thing I learned what OCN was or a AA is. Can someone tell me if I’m crazy, but I think memorizing is awesome but they will never use it in the real world, will they? I drove 40 minutes to check this out and the girls loved the social and the families were great, but wow a lot of info for those kids. Am I failing my children by not teaching grammar so young? I am failing them by just having them do copy work and I page in their Abeka English books? Maybe we are doing Charlotte Mason all wrong. Oh how I wish we had a support group here where I live. Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts.

    Blessings

    2Corin57
    Participant

    I’m not a fan of classical education. At least not the way they do it today. Way too much, too soon.

    When you look at the history of education, and I mean going way back, typically children didn’t start “school” until around age 7. The first few years were focused solely on the 3Rs. The “grammar” stage of adding in grammar, higher mathematics, science, history, Latin, literature etc… Typically wasn’t until at least 10+ . Today’s “classical” programs really bear little resemblance to what they were originally were intended to be. Unfortunately the world of homeschooling is every bit as much of a victim to early academics as public school. I’d recommend looking at Trivium Pursuits website. They are far more in keeping with a historical classical program (and Charlotte Mason)

    2Corin57
    Participant

    As for memorization, I believe in memorizing Bible verses, and I really don’t mind memorizing poetry at a young age, but otherwise no, I’m not a fan of rote memorization at ANY age. Let children learn through application – THAT is the learning that will stay with them, typically with better success. I memorized scores of history dates as a student. I don’t remember one of them. But I remember events and happenings that were interesting to me, things that I engaged in through projects, special reading etc…

    I learned math facts and grammar through usage, not drill.

    2Corin57
    Participant

    Sorry I’m not done but my phone is acting wonky. I like Bible memorization because the Bible says to imprint it’s words upon your heart – if you’re going to memorize something, what better than verses that will guide and help you throughout life? I try to choose age appropriate and relevant verses – if you can tie them into character training, all the better.

    As for poetry, it’s just fun 🙂 the skill of memorization is important, they will need to know how to do it – be it for speeches, performance, what have you. So it’s a skill to develop, but through meaningful ways, IMO.

    2Corin57
    Participant

    My kids prefer to memorize poems, songs etc – things they can act out and have fun with.

    I think I’m done now, lol.

    Wings2fly
    Participant

    https://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/how-much-do-they-care/

    Don’t think of their education so much “what they know”, but more of “how much they care”.

    Memorization of poetry – saying beautiful words in a beautiful way – will help with speaking, writing, and vocabulary, in a fun way.  My daughter picks the poems to memorize.  We do Scripture Memory Box to store God’s Word in their heart.

    Wings2fly
    Participant

    Grammar is such an abstract subject.  Do you want them to define its terms by rote memorization, and possibly learn to hate it, at a young age?  Or wait until it is more useful to learn it with a good understanding of applying it?  They learn grammar indirectly in the lower grades through copywork, literature, and poetry.  That sets a foundation for later when grammar is taught more formally and directly.

    Monica
    Participant

    We do a combination of both – we do a co-op similar to CC (but with a more gentle approach).  My kids enjoy the challenge, the socialization with some of their best friends, and they do get excited when they learn something and then come across it later in our readings.  I love when that spark goes off in their head.

    That said, at home we are more CM – lots of reading, living books, picture study, poetry study, etc.  I’ve really found that this approach has served us well for the past four years.

    (And I have to admit that I have a tendency to get comfortable and get stuck in a rut.  Our co-op gives me such a nice glimpse into how other moms teach, how other families work.  It’s been great for me, too.)

    ServingwithJoy
    Participant

    We have been participating in Classical Conversations this past year. Honestly, I’m still not sold, but it was a good socialization opportunity for the kids and that’s kind of how I viewed it. And I picked over the things I thought it was useful for the kids to memorize and let the rest go. We won’t be participating again next year, because (hopefully) we are starting a CM coop instead. Now, before I let it rip, I want to clearly state that I love my homeschooling friends who are Classical homeschoolers. I believe that they truly believe in the system they are using. But I can also say that many of my kids’ teachers have asked what we are doing at home, because my kids have a knowledge base and interest level that is lacking in many of the Classically educated kids. This isn’t because my kids are better than theirs! I believe it points back to the difference in methodology between the CM method and the Classical method.

    I just finished “Consider This: Charlotte Mason and the Classical Tradition” and it really helped me understand how CM principles are actually more consistent with how Classical education worked historically and how far afield we have gone in what we are calling Classical education today. I am not against all memory work, and neither was Charlotte. But her method of synthetic learning and ‘setting the child’s feet in a large room’ of ideas is vastly different than feeding them snippets of information or trying to fill a pail with a never ending supply of factoids.

    I do understand the concept that Classical Conversations and other Classical methodologies are trying to incorporate: that the child will build a framework (pegs) of knowledge, which will later be filled in with information in more detail. The problem is that they are viewing the child as a creation of the knowledge they are filled with, rather than a ‘born person’ with the capacity and desire to connect with great thoughts, great literature and great ideas. The trivium was never broken down into age or developmental segments, historically. The emphasis on memory work (and almost exclusively memory work) in the early stages of the child’s education is a modern concept – it was not part of the historical trivium. The trivium we are presenting through these programs is not the trivium that was taught to Greeks, Romans, or our forefathers. The purpose of the trivium was to connect the learner to great literature  (thus the emphasis on Latin, the only language the great books were accessible in historically). And Charlotte Mason’s methods are actually much more consistent with that purpose, in my mind, than the so-called Classical programs of today.

    If you are interested in finding out more about the Classical method and tradition and about Charlotte’s approach to learning, I highly recommend “Consider This”. I am not sure how you feel about the CM method or how it is working for you, but I wouldn’t feel inadequate or try to duplicate what you see in these programs. Ask God to lead you to what will work for you and your kids!

     

    jill smith
    Participant

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Thanks ladies,</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>I will definitely be in prayer of all the wonderful suggestions and comments. I really love cm, but I really don’t understand it in full. Can anyone expand it in English please. 🙂 I just started copy work with my 10 yr dd and she love it. When is to soon for a 7 yr old dd. I don’t have time to read all the CM books and I am a very hands on person as well. If some one can lay it all out for me that would be awesome. 🙂 per grade would be great too.</p>

    sarah2106
    Participant

    At the top of the forum (or home page) select Plan CM and then Free Curriculum Guide. It gives great information and walks you through each grade, and what to do for each subject.

    In our family, 7 or 1st grade, we start copy work. Just short sections at a time and build up to longer sections.

    HollyS
    Participant

    Have you read the blog articles here?  They are a great introduction to CM methods.  There is also the Learning Library link (at the top of the page) where the articles and videos are organized by subject.

    I agree with Sarah, the Free Curriculum Guide is a great place to start if you want to look at each grade level.  We’ve been using CM methods for years and I still like to look at the curriculum guide before I start planning for the coming school year.

    jill smith
    Participant

    Holly and Sara,

    I have seen and used the guide this year and it is a great resource for what to use. I am trying to understand her methods and how to act them out in the school day. For example: for the elementary years when to introduce grammar, writing, spelling ect, How  and what to use. I will take a look at the curriculum  guide and sort it all out. I may need some guidance along the way.

     

    Karen Smith
    Moderator

    For an overview of when to introduce the different language arts subjects, you may find our The Natural Progression of Language Arts video helpful.

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