Name: Teach Them Diligently (Branson)
Start: 2025-05-15T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-05-17T23:59:59-05:00
Location: Branson, MO

Tagged: arguing, contrary

This topic has 4 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 5 months ago by amama5.

Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)

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October 23, 2015 at 10:28 am
caedmyn
Participant
My 9 YO DD has gotten into the habit of wanting to “discuss” every single thing DH or I say. She’s not speaking in a disrespectful tone or intentionally being disrepectful, but I am really tired of having to explain everything to a child and constantly hearing contrary comments. For example, this morning I told her that she needed to fix the sheet on her bed which keeps coming undone at the corners so she’s not sleeping directly on the mattress. She made a comment about how the sheet on DH’s and my bed doesn’t come undone. I said it does sometimes and she said, “When?” I’ll say that we’re going to go to a certain park, and she’ll ask to go a different park, or comment that we just went to that park. If I made sauteed veggies for dinner, she’ll comment that they’re a little soggy and ask if I can make the crispier ones next time. She started taking riding lessons from a friend of ours and she always is asking to do just a little more–constantly asks if she can trot, asks if she can ride a certain horse, asks if she can hold the reins when her little brother is sitting on the saddle in front of her, etc (the riding instructor isn’t very good at setting limits). It’s like she is never content with the thing she is offered–she always wants something just a little different.
She also wants to know about every little detail of everything, which is ok to a point, but I think she is old enough to start trying to think of some of these answers herself and not ask everything (I really think she is capable of thinking of her own answer to, “Why is that dog barking?-type questions). Also, some of her questioning really borders on nosiness–wanting to have a long discussion on why the neighbors have so many “toys” (RV, dune buggy, multiple trailors, golf carts, etc etc) and how they’re wasting their money. She doesn’t really need to know every detail of someone else’s life, or have an explanation for why her brother just got in trouble.
It seems like every thought that pops into her head comes right out of her mouth. We have had many, many discussions on the difference between arguing and carrying on a polite conversation (ie it’s not a polite conversation if you contradict or offer a differing opinion to everything someone says), but she doesn’t seem to understand that she is actually arguing when she makes all these contrary or questioning comments. We have also had a number of talks about making sure what she says is kind, true, and NECESSARY. I have been trying to correct this habit for years and I don’t feel like any progress is being made. I am so frustrated with this now that I think I probably correct her on some things that are perfectly fine, but I do not know how to separate all the things she shouldn’t be saying from the things that are ok.
October 23, 2015 at 8:48 pm
retrofam
Participant
I would go through the book “Conversations with Character” with her. There is a part two for high school.
If she does start to argue or if you are feeling angry, then end the conversation and discuss it later. I have made my biggest parenting mistakes when I argue with my child.
October 25, 2015 at 8:06 am
Karen
Participant
Maybe it’s a “tween” thing? My 11yo dd has been doing that for years, too! It really annoys me – and I confess to not always being tactful in handling it. The good news is that I notice it less here of late – so am I immune to it? Or is she not asking so many “stupid” questions?
I’ve come to the point of just telling my dd point blank when I don’t see the point in discussing things, too. So, when she starts to rant about why a friend’s mom does or doesn’t do something or why whatever, I just say that it’s a waste of time to even worry about it, much less waste energy speaking about it. It’s not tactful at all, but I don’t know what else to do.
I’ll also just say that my approach doesn’t seem to work, since we still deal with it occasionally.
October 25, 2015 at 9:53 am
Rachel White
Participant
These are my suggestions from personal experience. Firstly, there is no debating with a 9 yr. old. She’s even too young to have reached the level of brain development for more critical thinking abilities.
Much of what you described is that she just doesn’t want to do certain things, so she distracts you with irrelevant questioning. Now, if she has a better, more efficient way of doing what you want, or truly wants to know the reasons, then ya’ll can have a discussion, at your convenience, AFTER what was asked is done. And her questioning what you do or what dad does is not her place, IMO (obviously, unless it’s immoral, which isn’t an issue here).
It takes two to argue and what you’re actually teaching her is to be disrespectful of your G-d-given authority. It’s not immoral what you’re asking, she just doesn’t want to submit to reasonable requests. She’s a child and needs to be reminded of that fact. She isn’t DUE an explanation, but you will be happy to discuss, and take into consideration, better ways of doing something (not arguing to befuddle in order to get out of it, which was your first example). But you are the final decision maker even after that discussion.
Remember, you don’t need her approval or agreement. You are generously taking her thoughts into consideration, that’s all, as she may have some good ideas.
As for comments about neighbors and their property. I would just frankly say “it’s none of your business now (when it’s completely out-of-line) nor when you’re an adult to judge how someone else uses their earned property (i.e.money)” and that you’re not going to discuss it. If she pushes it, remind her of the Bible verses having to do with nosiness. Being nosy is a great distraction from you’re own personal responsibility.
I was raised with a great respect for minding my own “beeswax” as my mom used to say.
As for details of things, much of that is laziness of mind. As Dr. Ben Carson said of his mom (and mine used to say it , too) “You have a brain, use it”. I tell my children that they can’t use my memory and my education, too because it’s easier for them. At her age, you don’t need to do the thinking for both of you; it’s not good for either of you. They need to develop critical thinking skills and common sense, which only comes through practice. You can ask her questions back, like: what do you think? why do you think that? or “go figure it out”. My mom rarely answered these types of questions for us. We either figured it out or moved on.
As for the riding lessons, I would talk to the instructor that you are working on her respect for authority and not to indulge her in any way regarding these statements (your dd doesn’t know she must learn A before moving to B and in her immaturity, she can be disrespectful). She shouldn’t even give her a qualification beyond the basic, you must learn “this” before “that” and then leave it. If your dd still pushes, I think it’d be instructive to have as a natural consequence an early ending to a lesson, as a result of your dd’s unwillingness to be respectful and concentrate on learning that day’s lesson. It would only take a couple of these early endings to get the point across if you and the instructor are supportive of one another.
If you don’t get some of this under control, this will bleed into other subjects that require slow, progressive, and incremental training and lead to irresponsible decisions, and continuing disrespect for the authority that knows better than she does.
I wouldn’t hesitate to tell her that you and the horse-teacher actually KNOW BETTER than she does. Appropriate phrases in these types of situations would apply:
get off your high-horse
getting too big for your britches
you’re going to come down a notch or two
She doesn’t know what she doesn’t know and to be humble and a person willing to learn from others, she must be put in her place, so-to-speak. Being treated with respect and as a person, doesn’t mean to treat her as an adult. It’s impossible. G-d gave her parents for a reason and I suggest, stop letting her place herself as an equal to you, or any other teacher you’ve given authority over her, because she’s not.
Lastly, in regards to the food issue. Question: does she thank you for making the food first then make a suggestion for a future way of making it next time? I would tell her that I don’t consider personal requests until and unless there is a show of thankfulness and appreciation for the effort and food put before her already.
Also, including her in the process to fulfill her request (after the prerequisite is met) would be reasonable. Things just don’t happen out of thin air and as I tell me children frequently”the world doesn’t revolve around you”.
All of these things will continue to worsen and become more obnoxious as she gets older, so the sooner you nip some in the bud, and redirect others, the better. You may be expecting her to act too much like an adult. Honor, respect for authority, humility in her position as a child, willingness to learn from others, and appreciation need to come first before the conversation can be expected. There’s a reason my the more extreme position of “children should be seen and not heard” has it merits in the realities of maturity development. Children should listen more than talk when it comes to adults and adult matters.
May I recommend John Rosemond materials for you.
Life is a much harsher teacher if she doesn’t learn these things at home. The strong will is a great thing when harnessed and channeled in a G-dly manner; but it is a ruinous master if not.
October 27, 2015 at 3:00 pm
amama5
Participant
Great ideas above. My just turned 10 yr old daughter is the same way , she loves to question and push and has to have the last word. We have had many conversations about what is appropriate and what isn’t in a normal parent/child (or other authority figure) relationship, and then we go from there with consequences if it isn’t.
For example, the food comments are a nicely disguised way to complain, and in our house we teach that you eat the food as it’s given and be thankful for it, or you don’t need to eat. I want them to learn to go to other’s homes and simply say thank you for the meal, not complain about how or what food they are served. (not that you can’t ever request something be done differently if you ask in the right way, but in a household of 8 it’s probably not going to change:)
Also, we were given great advice years ago that has helped me greatly with all my children, but especially my strong willed children: they are to say “Yes ma’am/sir”, or “okay mom/dad”, etc. when given a statement/command/request, and then obey. If they don’t understand, or truly think there needs to be a discussion they can say “Yes ma’am may I ask you a question?” I try to be fair and say yes when it’s reasonable, but many times it’s not okay to ask a further question; or she truly has no question, just wants to comment/complain. Then if she makes a comment still after I say no, she has copywork or another consequence about being respectful.
In her future she won’t be allowed to question a professor very long without consequences, or a boss without losing her job.
As for the comments about the neighbors (and this comes from myself as an example), she is getting that from somewhere, maybe comments you and your husband make but more subtle perhaps? Maybe not, but I hear shadows of things I may say that get amplified from her mouth.
I also assign my older children (8 and over) a report due each week on Friday. It can be about whatever topic they choose; a favorite book, or animal, or position paper, etc. Those are great things to suggest when she asks you relentless questions. I just say to her, “What a great topic to look up this week for your report.” Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn’t, but she knows I’m not going to answer it or discuss it further.
I do think it’s so hard because it may not seem blatantly disrespectful to you, but my other daughter would never dream of talking that way to her parents, grandparents, etc. I think it’s because she knows it is, as a heart issue, disrespectful. I also think you know your child, whether she’s just truly curious and wants to learn, vs wants to talk just to talk/correct/take up your time/manipulate others, etc.