Writing program advice

I don’t know the answer to your question about BTBR, but I do plan to use Teaching the Essay to my oldest at some point, but not quite yet. 

So far, my plan (I just posted about written narrations for high school on a separate thread) is to have my ds14 give up to 3 written narrations a day in the next few weeks. We decided (his idea, which I’m okay with) is to do 1 written a day (not including what might be built-in to other programs) for the first week of school, 2 a day the next week and 3 a day the following.  He gave a written narration today from the last chapter in Robin Hood (he did not love that book, but did finish it).  His narration was long and detailed…I was very impressed with how much time he spent on it and how neat his writing was.  We hadn’t yet talked about “timing” his narrations, but we did afterward have a conversation about the fact that if he has up to 3 a day, he’s going to have to do the best he can in a limited amount of time (we don’t have all day, really, we don’t :).  He understood.  I did promise him that I was more interested in content, over spelling errors and mechanics (although I think he did a pretty good job on our first day back).  I’m counting on this method, as I understand it, to help my ds in his writing skills without a comprehensive program until we use Teaching the Essay/BTBR.  It is much easier, for me, to just ask for a written narration after history/science-related books/literature, etc., than to use a program (we’ve used Write with the Best).

My 11yo is going to be required to give one a day from a variety of readings.  He read a chapter in Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh and gave about a 2 page (composition book size) narration. I praised his efforts, ask for clarification of characters (haven’t read the book), and ended it on a positive note.  I really want him to write again tomorrow, but he would be reluctant if I trashed his thoughts with my pointing out of errors. 

I did not correct either of their narrations today. I noticed some errors but didn’t want them to think that that was all I was looking for.  I am prone to notice the errors…shame on me!!  I did not have time today, but tomorrow when they give a written narration I will have them read their narrations to me and see if they notice any errors.  If they don’t, I will point out a few misspellings or punctuation. There is a process to it all and I’ve been trying to follow the recommendations in SCM’s LA Handbook and Lindafay’s at Charlotte Mason Help, both have proved to be so helpful in the weeding out of writing programs, for me. I have searched high and low for a program for my ds14 (would’ve liked to have used Jump In, but didn’t, but I plan to in Junior High for my 11yo), but have come to the conclusion that written narrations on books read is the best plan for us.  I even have 4 programs/guides, or more, on my shelves, but just can’t bring myself to use them, yet.

All of this is a process and, for me, it’s taken awhile to fully commit to CM’s ideas (although I would have said that I have) in the LA dept.  I want to “kind of” use her ideas but not all the way…well, that’s where the quandry, for me, begins.  I’ve been trying to find a program that will fit CM’s ideas, but if I just use the “ideas” then I already have a program. 

So, that’s my plan.  No writing program.  Written narrations, daily, along with some oral/fun narrations as I see fit. 

Forgive me for being off-topic, if I am…I have been typing this response out for about an hour.  Had many interruptions, LOL.

Wow, this is the best thread on writing ever!  I have felt stalked by the seemingly ubiquitous IEW program and its band of followers for years; I bet I’ve looked at it and touched it 50 times.  And everytime I came away saying, “No, something’s not right about this. It’s not good for my 8,9,10-year-old boy.” That writing curriculum is crazy intensive — I can’t even understand it, and I’m a writer by trade! Plus I’d shoot myself if I had to do all that outlining and writing. They were using it at a co-op (several of them, actually) that we considered and the training for the PARENT was TWO days long.  Good grief. And my child was only in third grade at the time.  

Yet remarkably I found myself considering the IEW primary program for my Kinder child this year; I mean, I do OWN it (so close I came to using it before), I may as well use it, right?  And my friend used it last year and her boy is reading chapter books and writing paragraphs going into first grade.  So there.  Well, after several nights of trying to muck through the teacher “training” and the manuals and figure out how to drag my 5 year-old through the writing portion, I had a 2 a.m. epiphany — WHAT AM I DOING??  I also own everything Charlotte Mason has ever written and I KNOW better than this. So I said a prayer and did a little Google and found this thread.

Oh yeah. Now I remember. Sanity restored. For now.  We’ll be using SCM Delightful Reading, which I also own, of course. Thank you everybody for the excellent refresher!

P.S.  This is not meant to be a big slander of the IEW folks; I assure you they will not be harmed by my little rant as I have been like a lone being shouting in the forest about it for years … no one is listening.  

I, too, mean no disrespect to anyone’s choices. I do believe there is a curriculum for everyone and some just click w/ certain personalities/family dynamics. I’ve been racking my brain over writing and I finally came to the conclusion (for now) that I already know what I want to do. I just needed to work it out in my own time, I suppose.

Add that to the fact that my ds14 scored just a few points below Advanced in English and that is w/ us really only trying to do Write w/ the Best and some grammar (he did use study island, as well). We just have to keep doing what we are doing because it’s working (just like other do) and add to it as time passes.

Like the previous poster mentioned, well, in a way, we already have the material, all of cm’s writings and are pretty much sold on the idea but we continue to look elsewhere for something. Maybe reassurance, maybe because it seems like a really good product, or because we feel we need hand-holding (I get it!). But, for me, that has added confusion, not relief. Going back to what Miss Mason has prescribed brings clarity to my clouded thinking. I may fall off the wagon when things seem hard, but I’m counting on the information I have to persevere. Lindafay has encouraging words for those of us that want to go down this road. Obviously SCM does, too, but we’re already here so I figure that’s a given:)

Great thread and so encouraging!

Following. Such great advice on here. Soaking in all this wisdome & knowledge. ☺️

bumping this up AGAIN…

I was looking for encouragement this morning and found this thread for the thousandth time!  LOL.

I am counting down the last year and a half with my teen and I need help in the composition area.  We had tried every program (I’m not kidding) available.  They last about two weeks.  So sad to think about all the money I’ve wasted.

This is great information.  I do have a question, though:  My son used to do narrations for History and whatever Literature he was reading at the time.  We got away from doing that over the past few years.  If I wanted to get him back into doing written narrations, how often?  daily?  And, how long should they be?  half a page?  a full page?  I would probably have him do these for his Literature reading, maybe History (he uses a textbook with specific assignments so I don’t want to over do it) and possibly science (Physics).

I don’t know why I quit having him do narrations…other pressing things to get done, I guess.  More math, more science, etc.

Does anyone have a list of generic essay questions that could be applied to any Literature selection?

Thanks,

Robin

Bumping yet again…. And so that I can read, re-read and re-read this through out the school year.

I can defiantly resonate with pretty much everyone on this thread.

Thank you So much for everyone’s comments!

@um.abubakre- First of all, welcome to this forum. Per your questions, at his age, I would start in on grammar/mechanics. It’s very frustrating to write sentences when you can’t spell well or put together a sentence, because it doesn’t come naturally to you and/or haven’t been trained in that department yet. He’s at the right age to begin grammar and official mechanics (punctuation/capitalization).

There’s several options just off the top of my head (not in a particular order):

Jr. Analytical grammar- have no experience. Many on here have and can offer help.

Rod and Staff 5 (my son used this. Was successful with it. He only did the odd questions, since there are so many. If he did poorly, he had to correct and then do evens.)

Growing with Grammar (my dd uses this series. It’s been great. Not CM, but effective. She began at Level 2 when she was 12, as R&S was too much for her. She needed simplicity. She has moved through steadily. She also requires the spiral nature of it)

WWE and ELTL, that you mentioned. Looking at ELTL, I would start him at the beginning or Level 2. You might want to contact the creators of it to ask their opinion. If you go with ELTL, then you should not do additional copywork outside of the curriculum. I suppose he could read the works to himself, since he is older, freeing you up if you have other children.

Don’t know anything about WWE.

There are others…

Has your son had any phonics training? If not, I recommend Megawords. It’s specifically for older children. Some kids pick up the rules naturally (I did and so did my dd, but not my son). I’d recommend using Quizlet for flashcards to memorize the rules. “Whole word” sight recognition isn’t enough. MG works fine together with dictation.

Has he begun cursive, yet? I would if you haven’t. Daily. Also, add in dictation maybe 2x/wk, even if you go to ELTL Level 1 (which doesn’t have it), but he should start it. Personally, I wouldn’t start him on typing yet, as that may reduce his incentive to improve his written work. Just my 2 cents. I’d wait till after his cursive training.

From personal experience, he’s just going to have to deal with writing. He can hate it and make himself miserable, or he can learn these tools (grammar/mechanics/cursive/spelling), choose to deal with it as a part of life and do his best work, so as not to have to re-write things because he hated it and didn’t do his best. Life is full of stuff we don’t like to do, but we have to anyway and one of the habits to instill is the mental discipline it takes to do one’s best even when it’s not something one likes. He’s at the age, IMO, when that lesson really has to start being practiced more fully. That way by high school (which will require much writing), he will have developed the discipline and not burden you (and himself) with complaining.

HTH

This whole thread was SO helpful. Bookworm, you are now my hero! Seriously! You have a gift for laying it out there and making it seem so simple and doable.
My oldest son is 11, starting 6th, and since this is the first time we will be going fully CM, he will have the most transition, having to learn to fully narrate orally, but also having to begin to use written narration as well. I’m trying to have him do one written narration (only a paragraph or two for now) per day from some of his own reading, not from what we are doing together as a family. I can see already that I will have to stay on top of requiring good, solid work from him.
I need to read, read, read more for myself on narration. I keep reading and re-reading, but it’s not sticking in my mom brain, so back to reading I go. This thread has been amazingly helpful.
I plan to keep on with oral narrations with all my children (11,8,6 yo boys) until they get the hang of it. My 6 yo is new to everything school related, and I’m having to be SO patient with him. He can’t seem to remember much about anything, short or long, that I read. But if I let him draw during science time, he make wonderful drawings of the insects and can tell me about them. So yeah. Not worried, just still learning to be ok with the CM gentle, slower pace.
Thanks again for all the wonderful advice and encouragement. I’m so thankful I have found this forum and have finally followed the Lord’s promptings to use SCM. Sooner would have been better, but here we are now! 😉