Name: Spreading the Feast Gathering
Start: 2025-07-11T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-07-12T23:59:59-05:00
Location: LaGrange, KY

This topic has 15 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by jenni33.

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December 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm
chesapeakmom
Member
Hello all, I am struggling with my PDD-NOS kid who is 8. Long story short, he lost all language at 15mo and didn’t regain it until age 4. He has been through extensive SLP/OT since that time and was just recently graduated out of those programs. Although he struggles with speech syntax I was told that working at home with grammar would be a better fit for him at this stage and I agree.
He has had a neuropsych a couple of years ago and was given the label Anxiety Not Otherwise Specified and working memory deficit which effects all areas of learning especially math and reading/spelling.
I we had been using MUS but the blocks and methods made him very frustrated. Since then we have changed to CLE math which has been a life saver for all of us. I don’t know where to go with his reading/spelling now. We currently review phonemes with ETC and BTC but that is frustrating for him. My dilemma is that we have finally started reading and yet when he writes anything he is so angry when he misspells. I don’t point it out but he asks me if it is correct and I gently try and work it out with him.
I think at this point we need one more year of phonics and to incorporate spelling in a way he can have success. This is ruining his self-esteem and he has worked so hard. Things I have been thinking about is AAS with Phonics Pathways/Reading Pathways, LLATL because it goes slowly and adding AAS to it, McRuffy (because I use it with my daughter and there isn’t a lot of guessing and its logical), or something completely OG method like Saxon or Wilson.
The problem is his ability to “remember” rules is where his weakness is and I don’t want a program based on his weaknesses. I know a lot of theses progragms aren’t CM style but I need something systematic for him I think. I need help and please give me feedback.
December 29, 2011 at 3:30 pm
jenni33
Participant
Hi Chesapeakemom,
While I don’t have any special needs learners here at home, I can tell you that from what you’ve described, I think your plan sounds pretty good. AAS with LLATL sounds like it would be the right method for you. I’ve used both programs, and they are gentle and repetitive. The problem your son has with memory retention could simply be developmental as well. It may that when he gets a little older, he may begin retaining things better. Of course if CLE math works well for him, CLE Reading and Language Arts might work well for him too. LLATL and CLE language incorporate spelling and handwriting, so you’d either have to figure out how to use those, or just skip them and add in AAS and your own handwriting program. I can’t give you an opinion on Phonics/Reading Pathways as I have never used them. 😉
Can I ask what PPD/NOS and SLP/OT stand for?
Trust your instincts with your child. Do what works for him. Any curriculum can be tweaked and changed to fit the needs of your child. You are the one working with him at home, and you can see what his successes and frustrations are. Don’t doubt yourself, and just keep focusing on what is working for him.

December 29, 2011 at 3:31 pm
jenni33
Participant
Sorry I misspelled your username!!
December 29, 2011 at 3:51 pm
chesapeakmom
Member
Thanks Jenni33. PDD-NOS is a long way of saying Autism that is milder on the scale. He was orginally diagnosed with moderate autism but has worked his way to a milder form on the spectrum. SLP (Speech langugage therapy) & OT (Occupational Therapy).
I am leaning toward LLATL with AAS and adding reading pathways for decoding practice. He loves real books and stories so I am hoping it will appeal to him. Honestly I wanted to put off spelling for another year but he wants to do it.
Thank you for your reply, it’s just so frustrating to see them trying so hard.
December 29, 2011 at 6:43 pm
kerby
Participant
I love AAS, and Phonics Pathways / Reading Pathways are both good. The nice thing w/ AAs is that it starts at the very beginning, so if he’s reading, he will have success even if he doesn’t remember the specific rules. There is review built right in and the hands-on might help him retain better.Also, the rule cards will have just the key points to remember, which he will have worked w/. He will see his progress as you move cards from the review tab to the mastered tab. You might want to review the mastered info a bit more than what is written in the book, though. By keeping that fresh and still under the mastered, he will see that he CAN learn and retain. (Just be aware that the times things go from mastered to review might be a bit harder for him to take. But, again, if he’s only moving one or two back, then that’s still good.
PP has games you can use to help w/ retention/review, too, so again, another aspect to add to what you’re doing. You’re doing a great job, and listening to him will help you know where to go.
K
December 29, 2011 at 8:30 pm
jenni33
Participant
I agree with the above poster kerby. I think AAS would be a great choice with whatever else you choose to use. The only thing I would tell you is this- my daughter is not a hands-on child and the AAS letter tiles were a nightmare for us. She hated using them, and I wasn’t sure what to do. So what I did was, once she mastered the alphabet and alphabetizing the letters, I had her write her words on the whiteboard instead of spelling them with the letter tiles. That was the only thing I did different. Since the tiles are a foundation of AAS, I decided just to do a traditional workbook type spelling with her instead of AAS. However, I do love the program. It has lots of review, and I like the method of teaching. I also like the way the books are written, and I found the cards easy to use and very helpful.
All that to say, that if your son did not do well with MUS because of the blocks, watch for a problem with the letter tiles in AAS. If tactile/kinesthetic learning is not his strong suit, you may find the letter tiles to be a hindrence. Don’t be afraid to put them away, but continue with the method.
I only mention it because that was our issue. My daughter is still using MUS for math, but there again, it’s using the blocks that we struggle with. She’d much rather see things in her head that use the blocks. I am looking more into a math like CLE or Modern Curriculum Press for next year.
I think LLATL is a good choice. We’ve used it some, and I like how it uses literature, is gentle and also incorporates copywork/dictation. I think there is a fair amount of review, but we found that the review in the older books is only at the end of each unit. You might have to see about how much review he’ll need and adjust it accordingly.
December 29, 2011 at 10:53 pm
chesapeakmom
Member
Thank you for the posts. I did just complete AAS level 1 with him and he HATES the tiles so Kirby I hear you. Is there a traditional method you found that works? My husband let me order LLATL and Phonics Pathways so I could truly look at them. I have them both as of today. Personally I loved the LLATL approach because it is so gentle but he saw the readers and said I don’t like that too much. He also looked through the phonics pathways book and started to get so anxious at the sight of the reading words. What his reaction is telling me is that he is terrified of failing to read.
Now where do I go Phonics Pathways and take it all the way back or gently with LLATL with a lot of review? Do I continue with AAS2 without the tiles? I think a heavy picture driven reading program just gives him too much guessing ability but I don’t see that in either LLATL or Phonics Pathways.
F.Y.I
Kirby I used MUS all of last year too and it was tears weekly. The CLE switch has been such a blessing and the continuous reviews gives him the comfort that he needs.
December 29, 2011 at 10:54 pm
chesapeakmom
Member
I meant Jenni33 and I misspelled Kerby…:-) Sorry, it has been a long day.
December 30, 2011 at 12:09 am
jenni33
Participant
That’s okay! We have all had our long days.
Well, with spelling, I started out with Building Spelling Skills from Christian Liberty Press. But, it was way too much writing for her, and there were 20 words, all of which except maybe 1 she could spell right from the beginning. So I am at square 1 with spelling. After our conversation here however, I am seriously considering just going back to AAS and using it without the tiles. I think it will help to solidify her reading skills. She tends to try to guess at some words, and seems to read some words wrong. Though she is a fluent reader, reads independently, and seems to comprehend everything she reads, I think using the AAS will kill 2 birds with 1 stone- solidify the reading and teach spelling at the same time. I am also considering SCM’s Spelling Wisdom for my daughter who is 7, and definitely using it for my son who be a sophomore next year. He is an excellent speller and not much challenges him, though I like the idea of prepared dictation for him because I think it will help to give him a good foundation for proper grammar and writing.
As for your question:
Now where do I go Phonics Pathways and take it all the way back or gently with LLATL with a lot of review?
What level LLATL do you have? What is your instinct about his reading skills? Is he able to sound out words? Does he need to review back to the beginning for retention’s sake? Or do you think he needs the basics again as a foundation? I kind of think that if he struggles with memory deficit as you mentioned above, maybe taking him too far with reading/phonics is not a good idea. Maybe sticking with just the basics, like beginning phonics until you know absolutely for sure that he is ready to move forward is what he can do, should be the plan. Hypothetically- if he’s not able to retain the silent “e” rule that it makes the vowel say it’s name, then why move on until he shows that it has been retained? Unless of course he’s begging to move forward. But even then, I think I would just stick with the very foundational concepts, or wherever it is he seems to be struggling, and just park yourselves right there until he’s completely mastered. Mastery is very important in reading/phonics because if they haven’t mastered the phonics rules, they will not be able to decode as well.
I hope that all makes sense. I guess what I am really trying to say is, don’t rush it. Figure out what point he’s at, go there and stay there until he’s mastered that concept, then move on.

December 30, 2011 at 12:48 am
chesapeakmom
Member
I have the red level of LLATL. It’s scope and sequence states: “long vowel sounds – review first grade phonics – r-controlled vowels: ar, ear, er, ir, ur – root words – short vowel sounds – sounds of: au, augh, aw, ay, ea, ee, ei, ew, ie, oi, oo, or, ou, ough, ow, oy, ue, ui – sounds of: al, ch, el, le, nd, sh, th, tion, ture, war, wor – sounds of : a, c, g, s, y – silent consonant in: ck, dge, gn, igh, kn, mb, ph, tch, wh, ur – syllabication – suffix sounds – words families”
The very beginning book (blue) reviews: auditory discrimination – beginning sounds – blends – consonant sounds – decoding new words – ending sounds – long vowel sounds – short vowel sounds – sight words – silent e – vowel pairs – word families.
Right now I trust his ability to recall and apply short vowels and consonant beginning blends, the silent e rule and the beginning vowel pairs; past that I don’t trust his ability. The red book looks like a good place to go slowly with him and add AAS but I don’t mind going back to blue and doing the last part of the program if I needed to.
December 30, 2011 at 1:59 am
jenni33
Participant
It sounds like you’ve got a good plan in place. I pray that things will go well for him and for you. Keep us posted on his progress. And I’d love to hear how the LLATL works for him after you’ve been using it for a while.
December 30, 2011 at 2:58 am
kerby
Participant
😉 It’s OK. It happens to the best of us.

I would probably adjust AAS for him and just use the white board w/out the tiles. My ds didn’t always use them either. There is so much that is good and would be helpful w/ the program that tweaking it in this way would still be worth it. If you’re still wanting something else that is similar, check out MegaWords. It’s a workbook style but teaches similar things w/ the syllabication. They cover the rules but I don’t think they have them learn them like AAS, I don’t think.
http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?seriesonly=900M
I also like R+S’s spelling program. It is a workbook, and it teaches groupings of words based on spelling rules/sounds. They work w/ the words in context and focus on the spelling of the sounds. It wouldn’t be my first choice in this case, but it’s not off the list. http://www.rodandstaffbooks.com/list/Rod_and_Staff_Spelling/

As for what to do/how to use Phonics Pathways w/ this new info . . .
**I would probably start at the beginning, building up his confidence and taking it slowly. If you notice him getting overwhelmed, then stop.
**Tell him that there is information on the page for you, the teacher. This is particularly so in the first section for the short vowels. As you progress, there are tips you can share w/ him as well as informative info/anecdotes. These are fun, and if it’s something interesting to him, make it part of the lesson, just talking about it.
**Let him know that what he’s seeing in the middle of the book is for a bit later. He will work his way up to that, and by then will be able to do it.
**Ease his mind by telling him that you are only going to do the first couple columns/lines or half the page. Give him a heads up that you’re not expecting him to do it all right now. That you will just take it one step at a time. If it’s easier, set the timer and just see what he can do comfortably in that short period of time. If you look at the pages as you go, you will also see that you can modify how you do the words. So, you could read the list that has rhymes, vs mixing it up and reading across the page. It will even tell you to do this. Use the games, if he wants/needs them.
Oh, you can also tell him that this particular page/section is not necessarily meant to be done all at once. Just let him know the author has grouped them together is all, possibly even saying it’s saving paper. LOL Plus, you can also use a piece of paper to cover parts of the page. This will let him take his focus off that.
There is a page in the back that you can use to chart his progress – the Student Achievement Chart. It’s not all inclusive and it won’t show even increments or really slow progress, though. This is easily remedied, though. You can easily make up a chart in Excel for him to mark off as he goes. Make it for each section w/ individual page number. When he finishes a page, he can put on a sticker or check it off or color it in (whatever piques his interest). Similar to the AAS chart. Example: there are 5 pages in the first section – one for each short vowel. You can have an individual box for each page (showing more progress) or you can have that section be one box (because those will be fairly easy to do at this point). The next section will have more to it – one for each consonant and more on each page because of the beginning blends. So, you would want to have one box for each page. After this, there is more on the page so you will want to break it down, taking a couple of days or so to do them. This will need a box/page.
For those review pages, can you time him? Write down how long it took. Have him do it again another day, and see if he improves. Repeat over a period of time and as he sees his time getting shorter/faster, he’ll see the benefits. Maybe even just timing it every so often vs every time. (This may or may not work. My ds w/ recall issues would not do well w/ this type of thing, and maybe your ds won’t either. It’s just something that came to my mind and thought if it’s not helpful to you, it might be for someone else.)

Do you have the Reading Pathways book, too? Or, just the PP book?

And, just to share (even w/ your ds), my oldest ds struggles w/ spelling due to his LD’s. He was an extremely phonetic speller. I didn’t find AAS until he was in 7th grade. We made it through half of Level 2. He then went to the ps for 2 yrs where they didn’t do a whole lot w/ spelling. But, because of the start we had that I continued (AAS phrasing), plus his continued efforts even when not wanting to, he started making a bit more progress. He’s in 10th gr now. He still struggles w/ spelling, but he’s doing better. When it’s wrong, I can say it is and he asks if it’s spelled this way instead. He’s generally right or very close that time.
All we have ever said is that he has strenths in other areas and we just have to do our best w/ his weak areas. (I’m sure you’re already doing this, too.) Everyone has them – strengths and weaknesses. I share some of mine, dh’s, and my sister’s – different areas. They don’t quite understand at these younger ages, but it does get through, eventually, w/ time. I know, time is the hardest thing to know we are going to face – especially some days.
HTH~ K
December 30, 2011 at 3:31 am
chesapeakmom
Member
Kirby, wow thank you for that lengthy post it really is very helpful. I really think he is doing ALOT of guessing and not much reading which is brilliant of him but frustrates him to no end. I do feel like I need to take it all the way back and just let him gain confidence and to let me know there are no holes. I have decided no matter what to use the AAS without the tiles. He likes the dry erase board so we will just use that in the tiles place.
Yes, I have reading pathways too. I loved your suggestions in using PP because those are his frustration areas. It is too overwhelming to see all of the words on one page and without pictures to guess their meanings. Do you suggest I use the PP/RP with AAS and ditch the idea of LLATL? If I use LLATL I am thinking the red level may be too advanced to start and could start in the first grade book and work quicker through it if he wants to. At this point I don’t want to overcomplicate things.
December 30, 2011 at 4:24 am
kerby
Participant
I’m not familar w/ LLATL enough to say one way or the other. I’m thinking that it may have more than you’re looking for or will use at this point. It might be a bit much w/ the spelling focus you’re doing. I was building on the paragraph where you said you wanted to focus on the phonics/spelling for one more yr. I thought you meant before getting into too much grammar.
For Grammar, we’ve used Climbing to Good English w/ success. (I know, not very CM.) The 2nd gr book focuses on a phonics review and basic grammar/writing. http://www.rodandstaffbooks.com/list/Climbing_to_Good_English/   If you felt you needed to do something in this area, you could still use the book but skip the phonics parts, if you chose. It’s inexpensive enough that it won’t make you feel bad to skip sections you don’t want/need right now.
You’re last sentence makes the most sense to me at this point. You will have your hands full w/ the spelling/reading focus, which is really much more important than grammar at this age. And, honestly, for 2nd/3rd grade grammar, it’s really just knowing that you capitalize the first words of sentences, names, and places; put end marks on sentences, possibly which ones to use; and knowing that sentences have a noun and a verb (a thing that is or does something) – not even necessarily knowing what they are called or do. LOL These will easily be covered well enough over the next several yrs anyway. Besides, using copywork would do the same thing.

OK. W/ the Reading Pathways, you can use the sections that correspond to the parts you have just finished in PP. So, you would start the short vowel pyramids after you have covered the first 2 or 3 sections in PP – which cover short vowels, beginning blends, and then 3 letter words. Take your time on them, too. Again, you can use a chart for progress.
I like PP because it uses nonsense words/phrases at times. This assures us that they are truly learning how to read the letters on the page and not just guessing at what they might be. **These smart dc have the ability to use context clues very well.
Once he starts gaining some confidence, he will be less threatened by the pages, although because of his struggles, it may take a bit of time and the pages may never be totally non-threatening. Really stress that it’s going to be used in sections, not pages. Keep the time in this book very short and sweet. Seriouly. Focus more on the AAS and the other will come, too.
Just a note – we used PP much more than RP, especially at the beginning. So, don’t get too nervous or worried if you don’t get to RP much if at all. If you don’t right now, you can always use it as review in another yr or two. W/ his working memory struggle, this will allow you to keep things fresh and reinforce w/out retraining, too. Plus, it’ll be familiar.

And, did you know that if you need something for record-keeping purposes, you can easily photocopy the white board. When dd was younger, she preferred writing on the board, so we did. But, when taking a spelling test, I didn’t have a hard copy for my state. I stuck it in the copier and it came out beautifully! PERFECT! 😉

K
December 30, 2011 at 11:52 am
chesapeakmom
Member
Ok, K. That does make the most sense and we already read a lot of living books in our literature selections as well as history. I am going to start PP/RP with him and AAS. I do have the R&S book you are talking about (lol, I know I have a lot of things) and I can use that with him a couple times a week to cover it. My speech therapist wanted me to cover grammar just so he practices good syntax. I was also worried about the lack of paper to show my state but I can use the spelling tests for that too. Thank you for sharing your struggles with me and giving encouragement. It feels good to at least have a solid direction to go in.
I wanted to thank both K. and Jenni33 for taking the time to give advice. Have a wonderful day and I will keep you posted.