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What kind of math for this kid?
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Ive been trying to figure out what to do with math for my daughter. She is different from me, and a completely opposite type of learner from my oldest, so I’ve had a hard time figuring her out. I feel like I’ve got a few good clues now, but not sure how to interpret them. I’m going to try and describe her and hopefully get some help figuring out what type of math program would be a good fit for her.
She is 8, an auditory learner, an extrovert but shy. Thinking back over her math journey so far, it seems to take repeated exposure to a concept before she really understands it. I covered place value with her via RS A, MUS decimal street, and c rod stairs (spread over 1+ years) before she got it. Similar with single digit addition and subtraction. We covered that with RS A in TK, MEP 1 (just the first half) in K, and a combo of Singapore PM 1, a vintage math text, c rod number walls, and RS go to the dump in first grade. I don’t think it was the variety of ways I taught the concept (in fact teaching too many strategies close together confuses her) so much as it just took repeated exposure. She has been similar with learning to read, she needs more repetition before she masters a word or type of words.
What kind of math would you recommend? Spiral? Mastery? Traditional?
Although I have used and liked RS, Life of Fred, and Christian Light Education and can recommend any of these, I am thinking that in your case, you need something to taylor to your daughter’s needs. You should keep using the AL abacus to supplement any of these as a wonderful hands-on visual. RS Activities for the AL Abacus is available to help you learn the many ways the abacus can be used for you to help your student use it. And play lots of games. The RS author, Joan Cotter, says that games are to learning math what books are to learning to read. Realize that it may take a lot of time and repitition and don’t compare with where they “should” be.
I have not used these, but think they may be worth you looking into:
Simply Charlotte Mason’s Mathematics DVD and book (I plan to buy.)
Math on the Level
You might also check the many options and reviews here, which helped me when I was trying to find something for my son who struggles with math:
https://www.homeschoolmath.net/curriculum_reviews/
http://cathyduffyreviews.com/math/math-index.htm
livingmath.net
Not the most important thing, but what it came down to for me after switching curriculum too many times, was teaching style. I am using Christian Light because it is traditional, and I understand it better than Right Start, etc., so I naturally teach better from it. I am not naturally gifted in math, but I can understand it when it is presented traditionally.
I supplement with Right Start games and manipulatives, as well as use Math U See blocks along with the CLE.
I have two daughters using CLE, and my older children use Videotext and Math U See for high school. My youngest dd needs lots of exposures too, but she loves workbooks so CLE is her favorite. She is in her second Light Unit so far, and loves it.
Math on the Level sounded great to me for a struggling learner, but I was overwhelmed with the teaching format. I needed more of a framework to teach from.
Hope this helps. Don’t feel badly if you end up trying a few curricula before you figure out what works for you and your dd.
I’ve been trying to be a better teacher, making the book fit her, and I think overall it’s been working pretty well. But I’m feeling like its going to become more work for me the further she goes along in Singapore. Just to start with there’s all the books to juggle with Singapore, then I have to figure out how to add in the review she needs, not to mention actually doing it, plus supplementing when she’s not getting something, and filling in when it makes jumps. Using math in focus would cut down on number of books needed and smooth out the jumps. But I would probably still need to add an extra practice book for review and I struggle with how to schedule that. She wouldnt like having to work in two different books every day. Nor do I want to make her do pages and pages every day.
MUS is appealing because its so straightforward and easy to use. Review is built right in, its slower paced, its easy ronuse, and she would only need to do one page a day. I feel like most of my issues would be taken care of, I could then just focus on making sure she understands. I can easily pull out my Singapore textbooks to supplement when needed.
What are the downsides that I’m not seeing? I do wonder what happens when she just can’t get something and we need to take a break and do something else for awhile? I won’t have the option of skipping over to chapters on measurent or time and working on those for awhile before returning to the problem topic.
Another option would be right start. She places into C. I used RS A with her three years ago, first edition. I wasn’t crazy about it, I felt it jumped around too much, I never knew where we were going. I think they’ve fixed some of that with the second edition? She liked it OK. Using several different manipulatives every day was annoying, because she’d want to have time to just play with every one. So math dragged out way too long. And of course she’d only get to use it for a couple years before it ends. And am I really going to play the games? She wasn’t very fond of the abacus back then. When I got c rods she preferred those. I still have an abacus but it never gets used.
Some of the downside for us with Math U See is that when they are struggling with a concept, they have to work on it every day until they get it, which can be frustrating. Gamma (multiplication) was especially difficult for one of my children. I ended up repeating the entire book with him.
When his sister struggled through Beta, I knew that I was not up for doing Gamma with her.
A friend of mine switched from MUS because her dd preferred spiral due to struggling day after day with difficult concepts for her.
With mathy kids this isn’t an issue.
That said, MUS can work for struggling learners, and they have online drills and customer support. It can be taught different ways.
I gather from your second post that you are using Singapore now? If that is working, I would not switch. If she struggles with math, you are going to need to stop and supplement with any curriculum you use, which is why you need to taylor one to fit her needs. I shudder to think where my son would be in math in ps trying to keep up with 20 other kids, not able to take a break and supplement before moving on.
I loved using RS, but it is more work for a teacher. With multiple children to care for, I needed something more independent. This is why I changed curriculum to CLE Sunrise. There was a transition period to catch him up on concepts we had not yet covered, but now he reads his worktext and does the practice and review problems and comes to me if he doesn’t understand. And if he gets stuck on a concept, we set it aside and supplement. I have used various resources at differing times to supplement, including: blue units from Math Mammoth, xtramath.org, Mathtacular DVD, RS card games, AL abacus activities and worksheets. I supplement until he understands and then we move on in CLE. I look forward to the SCM Mathematics book and DVD to help me better supplement CLE when and how he needs it. And I have come to realize and accept the fact that he will likely not make it to Calculus. But I hope to help him go as far as he is able, with a good understanding of basic mathematics that will help him make wise decisions as an adult.
You really can’t schedule math with a struggling learner. You just have to keep moving on and do the next lesson, but set it aside when you need to. So you will likely not finish a whole math book each school year. But it can help to school year-round and take smaller breaks, or still do math on your long school break.
Work in only one book or resource each day. Also, it can help to do two smaller math sessions rather than one long session, taking a break or doing other subjects in between. We do two 20 min. math sessions now in 6th grade.
With my two that are using CLE, I sit with them during math and follow along. My dd11 reads the instructions and problems aloud, as well as her answer, and I check each problem immediately. This helps her to focus, stay on task, and find out right away if she is doing a problem wrong rather than doing the entire section wrong.
I finally figured out that she doesn’t learn math well independently.
OK, RS is out. I just don’t need that complication right now. So I’m debating between MUS and Singapore/MIF (I’ll decide that after I decide about MUS).
I have a copy of beta TM and DVD right now, I’m going to give it a try for a couple weeks (printing worksheets off their website) and see how it goes. If my daughter really clicks with it, I think I will switch, the lack of grade levels would make it easier for her to work behind grade level if needed. And being in a different curriculum than her 5yo brother who is already in Singapore grade 1 would also be helpful in case he passes her. He seems pretty mathy. She doesn’t need another confidence hit (he reads as well as she does, maybe better).
If MUS doesn’t click with her, than I will stick with Singapore (or MIF) and just keep supplementing, taking it slowly. If so, I may need to put the 5yo in a different math next year. He’s also doing miquon, so I could continue that for awhile or use right start with him. Baby boy will be older by then and the tons of manipulatives may be doable.
Looking at MUS and how easy to use it is has made me realize how hard I’m having to work at Singapore. It would be easier to use MUS and supplement beast academy for kids who are mathy than to use Singapore. We don’t get to beast as often as I’d like because I’m struggling to get Singapore done with everyone. Food for thought.
I’ve recently dropped all the bits and pieces I had cobbled together for LA for my son and switched him to LLATL. It has made my life easier. If I end up switching us to MUS, I will have to laugh. I will be back where we started our homeschool journey. Back before I discovered the WTM forums and started thinking I should be doing something ‘better’. Lol. I may have to ban myself from surfing homeschool related sites.
I am using Math On the Level with my struggling 12yo daughter. Many use a spreadsheet to keep track of what is covered each day. But, it can be done with pencil and paper. That’s how I do it. I don’t take notice that you said how old your daughter is. But, with my daughter soon becoming a teenager, at the recommendation of her neuro-psychologist, I need to focus on those areas that will be important for her to function as an adult. He said to focus on time/sequence, using calculators (he doesn’t believe she will understand the relationship between fractions and decimals), and he said to do “checkbook math”. My evaluator also mentioned mentioned measuring, which I know is important for cooking and other real-life situations. Following a textbook is not good, because when we get to a concept she just cannot ‘get’, we are taking away time from those areas that will be most important when she is finished with formal schooling. Math On the Level allows you to choose whatever concepts you wish to work on. They also teach through more games and hands-on activities, ideas given in the curriculum. It is pricey to buy initially, but can be used for years, with the child potentially reaching pre-algebra. Although there are gifted students using MOTL, the author/publisher of MOTL is a former special education teacher, so she has had experience in teaching struggling students. She also will hold webinars for many different topics. She is also available on a personal basis if we need direction/advice. Hope this helps. http://www.mathonthelevel.com
It seems like you’ve tried a lot of non-traditional math curricula with her. But, a child whose not a natural with math, might have a hard time with those.
How about a very traditional non-spiral curriculum?
R&S or Strayer-Upton maybe.
I wanted to talk about the issue mentioned that being on hs forums caused us to switch curriculum, and then we ended up going back to the other curriculum. I have done that, which some would say is a waste of time and money and to stay away from forums. I thought that before, but decided there is more to it than that.
After switching, I am very confident in my convictions of what curriculum works for each of my children, and for me as a teacher.
Also, I have learned of some amazing living books that I had never heard of before.
On top of that, I have received some top notch parenting and home living advice here.
<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>Thanks forum members! </span>
[quote]
It seems like you’ve tried a lot of non-traditional math curricula with her. But, a child whose not a natural with math, might have a hard time with those.
How about a very traditional non-spiral curriculum?[/quote]
She did fine with all these. She liked RS in TK, but I didn’t want to continue with it because of all the manipulatives and how mom intensive it is. She did fine with MEP in K, but it was too mom intense too. She did fine with simgapore math in first grade, but I am so tired of trying to juggle and schedule all the books. And as I use further levels with my older son I see conceptual jumps that I know she will struggle with.
I did wonder if a traditional program would suit her and got conventional arithmetic with spunky the donkey to use as her review book this year (since I had to add review to Singapore anyway. I just got this rather than another Singapore book). And she hated it. She hated the drill drill drill of math facts
retrofam- you make a good point. I have grown as a teacher over my last few years of trial and error. I can now move forward more confident in what works for us. My only thought is to be more particular about which forums I hang out on. I found myself overly influenced by the opinions of people whose goals do not match mine.
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