60-day returns • free shipping on USA orders $129+
We are not enjoying narrating
- This topic has 13 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 10 months ago by
.
Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
- Posts
I’ve been doing lots of thinking lately about narration. I’m appreciating Sonya’s blog series about it, which are very timely.
The challenge is that having to narrate just sucks all the joy and pleasure out of the books for my daughter. She LOVES reading, and will read for long periods of time. She’ll come and tell me about things she has read and learned. Weeks later, she’ll remember something and connect it to something new. She also loves being read to, particularily while she is working on some handicraft or project.
We’ve been doing all the ‘school’ books as read alouds. As soon as I ask her to narrate, though, it turns the reading into work. She grumbles, she complains. She told me today “I hate having to tell you the story that I know already and that you know already. Why do we have to tell it again?” I’ve explained the purposes. I’ve tried different prompts or formats, all with the same reluctance. I’ve tried letting her read silently, but since she knows she’s going to have to narrate, she doesn’t enjoy the books. On a few books I’ve given up the narrations, and just let them be ‘free reads’ at bedtime. Then all of a sudden I start hearing about how interesting the book is and all the things she is learning. She even started voluntarily copying out a poem she liked from one of the books. (Assigned copywork work is also something that she hates.)
Oh, btw, my daughter is 7yo, has been reading since she was 3, and narrating for about 2 years. She can narrate beautifully when she wants to. She just rarely wants to. At first it was something she tolerated, but she’s growing to dislike it more all the time. Sometimes it helps to do have her draw a picture and then I transcribe the story about the picture, but even that has become a chore lately.
I understand the reasons for narration, and agree in theory. Narration helps the reader process ideas, form connections, and remember. In practice, it’s just tedious and painful. I’m starting to wonder if it wouldn’t be better to just let her read and process the books in her own way and at her own pace. If I just let her go, DD would read a dozen books on any given topic. Or, we could continue slowly reading through one or two books, narrating (aka pulling teeth!), as we go through each chapter together. I’m not sure that she wouldn’t gain more understanding and appreciation if I just let her be.
I’m not giving up yet, and want to continue with Sonya’s blog and other things to help me learn better how to approach the narrations, but I just wondered if anyone else has come up against this. This isn’t really a discipline issue. She’ll do it when I ask her to. I just know she hates it and don’t want to kill that love of reading and learning.
Joanne
This is just a thought and may not be “CM” worthy…but could you just have a discussion of the reading instead? Instead of asking her for a narration just have a talk, maybe on a walk, or with a snack or something nice and relaxed. If you worded your own thoughts and questions in the right way and she was open to this format, you could probably still get a rounded view of what she has absorbed, what has struck her and any connections she has made. Just don’t approach the whole thing as a “NARRATION”, but rather just a pleasant discussion about a subject that you have both just learned about.
Do you think she would enjoy that better and have it still be accomplishing the main purposes of narration? I hope you figure something out that works well for the both of you!
-Miranda
My 7yo is a still a beginner reader but does know what narration is. He frequently asks me if he has to “tell back” after the reading, which he doesn’t particularly like. He usually says he hates to be read to, reading, and the telling back thing is yuck! But, much like your dd, he always asks me to read to him, and loves his beginner reading books. So I don’t know where this talk of dislike comes from when they are doing the very thing they say they dislike (your dd naturally narrating and my ds begging to be read to).
What I do is alternate the narrations from book to book and from drawings to sharing w/ me while I write. I will let him know that one book is a non-narrating book and one is a narrating one. I also stop during our some of our readings, so they’re not so long, and discuss throughout the book so there’s not a narration at the end.
Asking for a picture or to share w/ dad at dinner time usually draws out a narration w/o my son feeling on the spot. I think for a 7yo that is a good start. Maybe you could give her a little bit of a break and start fresh in a while??
Just a thought, maybe try drawing or making a video? Or, have her listen for her favorite part and let her use that part for copy work.
My dd is 8yrs. We struggled the first two years of narration. Several weeks ago when Sonya started the blog about narration I just came out and asked my dd what made it so difficult? She told me there was to much to remember and she felt like she was going to get it wrong. After explaining that there is no wrong or right answer (I know we have talked about that before) I asked her if I read less each time if she thought that would help? (It has). Now, when I am reading I stop after a complete thought and she has been able to tell me things she remembers. Another thing we started doing is using various ways of narrating. One day I told her to listen carefully because when I finish you are going to act out the story with your stuffed animals and I am going to video it. She got really excited!!! I have never pictured God as a blue teddybear and I don’t think He said “abracadabra” when he confused the language at the Tower of Babel, but we had a great time. It took an extra hour that day, but somehow it seemed to break the ice on narrating for us. Since then she seems to be a lot more light hearted about narrating. We are only narrating once a day right now (either science or history) and we are trying to vary the way we narrate. I have also been encouraging her to stop me and ask questions if there is something she doesn’t understand or add things that she already knows about.
Sometimes less can be more so don’t be afraid to reevaluate and maybe do a lot less until she develops the skill. From what I understand from reading blogs and such, a child’s reading level has little to do with developing the skill of narration.
One of these days it’s going to click and you will be amazed!!!
I love reading, but I have always hated answering “comprehension” questions. Here’s my opinion: The purpose of narration is to enable pupils to retell and think through what they have read, and to express it in their own words. This helps them gain understanding of what they have read. However, if they have read and understood a story well, and absorbed the lesson of the book, there isn’t much point in forcing a “narration out of them”.
Reinforcing the lessons or examples in a book, I believe, may not have to take the form of “narration”. That was very suitable in a English classroom, with its environment friendly to the chance of “public” recitations of lessons before the governess or the class.
Here are some ways to bring up the topic of a book, and to take it one step further. Each student will probably have his own means of expression but here are some ideas, not meant to be “forced” but rather grown out of.
1) Book-based art – after reading the “ballet shoes”, I enjoyed drawing the characters. not just drawing, but expressing the story or theme through watercolor.
2) Book-based projects -such as trying out recipes from the Little House Books
3) Book reenacting, presenting, story-telling, reading aloud, acting, miming, etc.
4) Book trivia. What avid book-lover doesn’t love fun trivia and quizzes, or making fun trivia and quizzes. This serves a pedagogical purpose, even the ubiquitous “Which Narnia/LOTR/Pride and Prejudice character are you?”
When it comes to children’s stories, there really isn’t much to discuss. But after I turned 14, I grew to love analysis and discussion. I enjoy going through deeper and weighter books one line at a time, making notes, dissecting points, arguing opinions in a very Talmudic agree/disagree way with myself.That, I believe, is the purpose of narration. For example, the writings of Dietrich Bonhoeffer or teachings of the Bible I enjoy chewing over, mulling, and getting “lightbulbs” over. Some books are really, really, alive to me. They are deep, and there is more to them than what’s on the surface. Also, I love rewording by writing. I took one theme from a line of Bonhoeffer’s letters and wrote an essay on it, savouring each different angle and flavor of thought a different synonymous description brings.
I find children who love to read may not love to write, yet. They need very much to develop a flow and freedom of expression and they need to gain the tools for that by good reading. I love reading and absorbing information, researching and reading up on related topics, acquiring knowledge. After all, reading is the gateway to learning more, wherether science, history, to geography.
For me, I believe a child has gained something marvelous and reached a milestone if he had read and discovering a “living idea” that can he can take possesion of, that fills him with the energy of expression, that means something very real. Perhaps not every child is like me, vocal and literary. Some express themselves through music, through art, or food, or other unique facets of their individual personality.
Some may not ever have that (literary inspiration), but those who do have a living treasure.
Actually, I found the breakthrough when memorizing the Bible, the book of Colossians especially, and meditating on it, and having become to real and so alive to me. And now I practice narration and retelling not only with what I read in the Bible, but also with geography, history, and other branches of practical and academic knowledge. Somehow the world has become to relevent, so interelated, when I begin everything from the point of view of the Bible… .. I believe that is the goal of Charlotte Mason was to impute this into her students, to give them, as it were, a second birth.
Two thoughts:
1. Don’t have her narrate ALL her school books just yet orally. Alternate between subjects on different days. It may help, it may not.
2. Check out this wonderful list from Simply Charlotte Mason with a huge variety of ideas for narration: http://simplycharlottemason.com/timesavers/narration/
Agree with Tristan!! Cut the narrations down, a lot! She is so young still, and even though she sounds advanced with reading, there’s a lot of little girl there that just needs to “be”. A big part of CM is letting the child take in their readings for long periods of time, feeding their minds and nourishing their spirits. The ideas that she takes in are hers, no one else’s. We must learn to step back and be masterfully inactive, being patient to see how the livings ideas (the food) takes shape in their minds and hearts.
I have my 7 year old (who is also a BEAUTIFUL narrator) tell back once a week. I know that sounds like too little. But she doesn’t get burned out this way. I pick a story she loves too. Also, I can be a tad sneaky when I say, “I want to tell you my favorite part of this chapter!” Suddenly my doing that encourages her to tell hers.
One more fun way is to use a video recording. It’s for for little ones see themselves talking. I use my iPhone for this.
HTH!
Your daughter is narrating some on her own, it’s just “delayed.” I had a “delayed narrator”. It just worked best for him to process a while and narrate later. I’d keep doing at least one book a day in normal, real-time narration. Just because one doesn’t like something is no reason to fuss and complain and not do it. Here is one of those “how CM builds character” issues. However, for other things, how about reading one reading a day and telling her she doesn’t have to narrate right away, but she does need to decide how to tell Daddy about it when he gets home. Or help her make a “newspaper” once a week to send to Grandma about her stories. Or let her tell you at bedtime which of her readings she liked best and why–insist on the “why.” Or have her present a short “news brief” to tell about her readings this week, and put it up on your blog so she can “see” herself doing it. Bring up conversations casually through the week about the books she’s reading and probe what she’s thinking about them. (Don’t “quiz’ her–just say “I’ve been thinking about what Alice did–what do you think?” or whatever.)
I have a “delayed narrator” too, probably 2 of my kiddos, actually. They do need time, it seems, to process…but I believe it still needs to be done. My opinion is (and this is finally hitting me), if you/we/I don’t do what is prescribed (by CM) then the we will later regret the weak foundation we have built. I’m experiencing a bit of this myself w/ my own kiddos. Not expecting because they don’t know how, or are upset, has not been helpful in the end. Changing my approach or giving choices along side my expectations is what I should’ve done.
The CM method works, but we have to do the work. How you do that is up to you and you should still consider your dc needs/readiness, but to not do it at all, or require it, would not be giving her the full dose.
I would definitely start fresh with some new ideas/approaches and allow her to some choice in the matter.
I haven’t read all the posts here, but I wanted to add a quick comment or two. You say that dd does enjoy coming to you from time to time to share what she has read, and I would consider that narration. Since she is not doing written narration yet, I think you could keep it casual for awhile.
Maybe you could have an agreement with her that, if she hasn’t come to you herself at least twice a week to share what she’s been reading & what she got out of it, you’ll specifically ask her to narrate immediately following a subject’s reading on Friday. If you just make a note that she gave you a narration (for example) on Wednesday for chapter such-and-such of Good Queen Bess, then you can check back on Friday to see that it’s been done. She’s probably doing more narration than you think. Oh, and if she “shares” with her dad when he comes home, that could count, too.
Thank-you for all the input everyone. I think I’m stuck on the quote that “A lesson not narrated is a lesson wasted”. I’m not even sure where the quote came from, but it plays in my head. I need to decide whether I actually agree with it or not! We have been narrating everything Maybe that’s the wrong approach.
I will focus right now on being more creative in how I ask her to narrate, such as acting out a story with puppets, instead of just repeating. We have done some of that, but we need to do more.
Anyway, thanks for lots of things to think about!
Joanne
My ds 7 and 5 will tell me things or seem to interrupt the story with their thoughts and input – narration. as long as it is actually about what we are reading, I’m trying to go with it. I only ask the 7 yr old to narrate our history reading right now, and when I do, I only read one complete thought and stop – I think he’s afraid of getting it “wrong” also, and sometimes only gives me one word answers, but he’s listening. They both seem to get a lot more out of all the rest as we sit and soak it all up. Will have to start trying out some of the other creative ideas like acting out, etc. as we continue on…
I remember sitting on my mom’s kitchen counter while she cooked dinner and talking about everything, often all about whatever book I was reading, but I was probably 9 or so. Narrating can be hard, and from what I’ve read most don’t even start until at least 7 yrs with just a sentence here and there. Also I’ve found if it’s not treated like a Subject of School 😉 and just incorporated naturally, I think it’s more effective and fun for everyone.
My oldest is 5 and I don’t require narrations. But, when his dad reads to him before bed, he usually tells me about it the next day.
He doesn’t do that with things I read to him, but he might tell his dad about it. It makes sense that it would seem redundant to tell you what you just read to a young one. I’d definitely accept her telling anyone about it at a later time as a narration.
Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
- The topic ‘We are not enjoying narrating’ is closed to new replies.