Very difficult child, not sure I agree with the advice/books Focus on the Family suggested?

Mmmm, my heart goes out to you.  I can certainly relate to this.  My experience with my oldest son (second born child – I’m assuming that may be your case also – is often a rebel) was very similar.  And I can’t say it passed quickly.  There’s an awful lot I still don’t know.  But I’ll throw out a couple of thoughts and questions (and truly that’s all I would call it), and I know you’ll get good ideas here.

How is your husband helping/dealing with this?  Does she behave the same way when he is there?  Sometimes this can be a clue.  Could you catch her doing some things right, and be sure to offer appropriate praise?  Sometimes these children truly believe they can do nothing right, and there’s no sense trying.  And why shouldn’t they feel that way if/when that’s the way they are treated? (And I was guilty of that at times.)  Are you loving this child unconditionally – and does she understand that?  Find ways to make deposits into her emotional bank account.  She has obviously drained her account with you (she’s done a lot of withdrawing and you’re really feeling it), but unfortunately, you’ll just have to suck it up and make the best of it.   Her emotional bank account is probably way overdrawn too.  You’re likely going to have to really come down hard on her to get this licked, but do all you can to say (and do) positive things to her as much as possible too, and find ways to let her know that you love her and have confidence she can be and is better than what you’re seeing at the moment.  We do tend to get what we expect.  You know the warnings about needing to be sure we have more positive interaction than negative…and I’m sure that seems impossible now…but do what you can to correct that.  With my son, I finally came to the realization that as a young man in progress, he desparately needed to feel that I respected him.  And hard as it seemed at the time, I did find that with great effort, I was able to give him that.  Deposits!  With a girl, that will be different…maybe she needs to be assured and reassured of your love, since that is a woman’s deep need.  Maybe you could occasionally even single her out to do something special with you (a walk, a cup of tea after the others are in bed…) even though she doesn’t deserve it.  Seek to understand her.  Maybe you can get into her heart that way.  You probably need to win it over again somehow.

As far as coming down hard…I guess I don’t know what to say.  This is not my strong point.  You’ll get better thoughts from others.  But what I have learned through my mistakes, is that it pays not to escalate the issue and emotions.  I used to feel like I had to win.  And I still do to a point.  But I’ve made the mistake of more or less fighting in order to win…escalating it to the point that it sears awful memories in our brains that are very hard to overcome.  There are better ways, I know.  But I can’t say I’ve learned them yet.  I’m still trying.  I am trying to learn to take action to stop the immediate problem with as little talk as possible, and then wait for a calmer moment to discuss and act further with stiff consequences if necessary.  Hopefully someone else can speak more to that.

Sending up a prayer for you…

What coralloyd said!!

Besides making her feel more loved, quality one-on-one time may help her develop better communication skills. It sounds like she might have trouble relating to her siblings and you–she may be dismissing people saying she “doesn’t care” when really, she does not have the social skills needed to connect with them in healthier ways. Some kids don’t naturally figure that stuff out… My 8yo daughter is naturally a compassionate, gentle soul, while I have had to walk step-by-step training my 5yo son in exactly how to interact with people. I didn’t realize his attitude stemmed from basic inability until I started asking him “why” a lot (“why did you hit your brother? why did you break their toy? why are you yelling at me?”) and got a lot of genuinely frustrated, tearful “I don’t know!!!”s.

Hi amama5, I can hear your frustration in your post. Just so you know where I am coming from I will tell you a little bit about my family. I have 4 kids, three of whom would fit our society’s definition of “strong willed”. I prefer Charoltte’s Weak Willed. All four have “special needs”. When my older kids were young (oldest is 26)  my attitude toward discipline was much like yours- “Just do it when I say so!” I was also very opinionated that kids don’t have ADHD, etc. they just need to get outside and run around more. I tried everything to get an obedient result and I “outlasted” them no matter what the cost so I wouldn’t be “inconsistent”. Still, life was very difficult and I was dismayed at the character issues we still saw daily. Needless to say, 26 years of parenting have changed some of my opionions. 🙂

For my older kids it took some seriously dangerous behavior and a psychiatric evaluation around age 12-13 and then medication before I saw any improvement in behavior. I would be a liar if I told you everything was rosey after that… but it *was* better. Despite their issues both my sons have grown up to serve the Lord and generally behave respectfully toward me and society.

My hubby and I have adopted two younger kids as well. As I learned about the specific issues inherent to adoption and attachment I came across the Connected Child books, videos, etc. I do thinks they are the best all around parenting advice I have ever seen- not because of the methods but because they look at the whole picture. Just like with schooling, methods alone do not get to the real goal, its the principals behind the methods that will get you where you want to be.

Look at the big question of “why is my child behaving like this?” as well as the need to obtain obedience. Depending on what issues are going on inside the child it can be impossible to gain obedeience without addressing the why.

If you are a Christian you can look at it this way, we cannot truly obey Him until we have recieved the grace He sent through His son, Jesus. When our children have a problem they cannot solve themselves *we* have to deal with their problem with grace (they certainly havent “earned” our help)  before we can expect them to learn obedience.

So based on my experiences I respectfully offer some things to consider as to why your daughter may be acting this way. If these areas are a problem and are addressed you may see some improvement in obedience. Please don’t feel obliged to answer publically as I know these are very personal areas. If you want to PM me I would be happy to talk more.

• Consider a mental health evaluation. I would suggest going to a major university for the evaluation rather than a community clinic to get the best eval. If there are mental health issues in other family members (Aunts Uncles Cousins, Parents, etc) this would be especially important.
• Consider attachment problems. If your child is adopted or had medical problems or other things that could have disrupted the process of attachment when she was 0-3yo consider looking more into the Connected Child. You may not feel you have time to wait for the child to decide to obey, but Love is Patient. It may be an area you need to grow in so you can help your child.
• Make sure she feels loved. With one of my older sons in particular his behavior was so difficult all the time and I was a single Mom struggling to survive that I often didn’t make time to make sure he felt loved. I was so frustrated with his behavior I sure didn’t feel like loving him! He needed to feel loved though, so he could eventully do better. There is a ton of information out there on Love Languages. A quick search should turn up plenty of  resources.

I am not sure how this might work for you, but I notice a difference in my daughter (my second child) when I go lie next to her in her bed when everyone has gone to bed and the day has ended.  We talk briefly and I hold her hand or hug her.  Sometimes I fall asleep for maybe an hour and then go to my bed.  Sometimes she goes to sleep and I get up.  It is not every night, but on occasion.  You could plan the same night(s) each week though.  It works well because it is the end of the day and easier to find the time, and I get rest then too.  She gets quality time, words of affirmation, and physical touch (3 of 5 love languages).

This is along the same line, from Sally Clarkson:

http://www.itakejoy.com/closing-each-day-with-a-blessing-the-intentional-routine-that-opens-hearts/

Wait a second – there is a whole BOOK on “The Influence of Older Children on the Younger” ?!!  WOW! 

My DH and I are constantly, constantly talking about this issue.  Our eldest is definitely the “do the right thing” kid.  I am working with him constantly in terms of having more compassion for the younger ones, less condemnation, as you say above.  In any case, the whole issue has most certainly had an impact on our second son (we wonder often the extent to which it sparks his rebellion), but we have been basically just swimming through deep water on how to work on this.

What do you mean by your comment that you REALLY struggle with the author’s delivery?  Is the book extremely psychological or hard to follow?

One simple thing that helps my son with obedience is if I touch his arm, tip his chin, or otherwise physically break his focus on whatever he’s doing before I ask him to do something. He gets tunnel vision and often literally doesn’t hear me if I don’t do that… which predictably leads to conflict as I get frustrated and eventually lose my temper, and he is suddenly snapped out of his deep focus by an angry mom bearing down on him, with no clue as to why I’m upset.

Also, you mentioned her being angry about you mentioning the “b” and “d” reversal–was she mad at YOU, or mad at her MISTAKE? You said you’re a perfectionist, did she inherit that trait,..? It is extremely frustrating to be a perfectionist kid who hasn’t developed skills as quickly and perfectly as she thinks she should–and she might be really sensitive about her mistakes being pointed out, because she takes them SO seriously. Would it help to encourage her to check her own work if you see mistakes? Like, “Are you sure you wrote that word correctly? Take another look…” It’s less embarrassing for them if they catch it “themselves”. Also lots of encouragement ala “What would have happened if Edison gave up the first time his lightbulb didn’t work? Mistakes are nothing to be ashamed of, they help us learn and improve our skills.”

This has been such a helpful thread. I don’t have the same difficulties as the OP, but I often struggle in my relationship with my daughter, who is the oldest child. Thank you for the reminder of the Love Languages, Wings2Fly, as well as the link to Sally Clarkson’s post. My daughter and I took the online love language profiles yesterday, which was enlightening. Jeaninpa, great information . I appreciate the wisdom and advice found here at SCM.

Amama5, don’t lose heart. Trust God and seek Him. I was reminded this week that God is always with us in our storms, and He is bigger than any storm. James 1:5 “If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask if God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.”. We are not promised an easy life, but we are promised God’s wisdom.