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Tell Me Again…
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Someone please remind me why having the child tell as much as possible in a narration vs. summarizing a passage is better….
Also, do any of you have your children outline? If so, at what age?
Well, I’m not sure the goal is “as much as possible” but “what the child gained from the reading.” I don’t want a long meandering poorly organized regurgitation–I want to know what struck them, what affected them, what ideas or characters or events made an imprint on their minds. What from what we read will make them a different person? Know or care about more things or ideas? Make larger the room in which they set their feet? Summarizing doesn’t really tell me that. It tells me they were able to separate out a few bloodless facts. This can be somewhat useful at times, but it doesn’t tell me if they pulled the living ideas out of my carefully-selected living book.
I teach outlining when I teach note-taking and organization for writing projects (longer essays, research papers.) Junior high to high school seems appropriate. It can be taught in about thirty minutes. Susan Wise Bauer notwithstanding, it just is not something that most children need to practice for hours from the age of six on. It isn’t that hard. I was taught it in ninth grade and have used it profitably at times ever since.
Thank you 🙂 I will copy and paste so that I won’t have to ask AGAIN LOL!! It always makes so much sense….I just forget it so easily when I get the “am I doing this right” syndrome.
I SO needed to read this. I was using Writing With Ease…I loved the copywork and passage in book one. I just had her narrate (for the most part) instead of asking the questions and it really helped her narrations come along. I bought it for this reason…to help my narration-reluctant daughter gain some confidence with the short passages. And I completly agree with her philosophy on reading good lit before WRITING anything.
But Book two is talking about summarizing…and I haven’t started it yet. I feel horrible telling her to only tell me two sentences when, for two years, I’ve been breaking my neck trying to get MORE than two sentences out of her! lol So…it’s still shelved and I’ve been agonizing over it.
I may still use her passages…she has GREAT excerpts to help with narration if you have a child who is hesitant…and more than once, these passages have caused my daughter to want to read the full book. But…I’ll do something else with them. 🙂
To me, narrations help cement what the child has learned. If they only ever summarize – then that is what they will likely remember. If they add more details – they will remember more.
Just wanted to add on the topic of outlining, that I taught dd11 how to outline in church. I outline all of the pastor’s sermons, this is how I take notes. So she started watching me and I would explain it to her afterwards. Then I had her try it and we would compare notes. She is now doing it by herself. We outline her history reading once a week together to make sure she gets it. I also have dropped WWE and have went back to narrations not summaries.
Just to clarify. When you ask for a narration (and use whatever words you choose, like, “Tell me all you remember.”) you are allowing them to share it ALL, right?? Things can come up from inside of the dc that may not have risen to the surface if you asked them to squeeze out, shrink down, and get to the point. Right?? When I ask for a narration I’m listening and, not exactly waiting, but giving them enough time to come across the possible value in the reading. So I don’t know if I’m allowing meandering or not (I don’t know if my kids do that
). Yesterday, my 9yo was narrating A New Coat for Anna (I know it’s a bit young, but I didn’t realize he probably could’ve manage the 4-6 suggested reading material in Mod. 6, that’s why we’re reading some aloud) and he’s very specific, detailed, may throw something out that “connects” to something he read, and just likes to give it all, especially if it’s something that made sense to him or that he really seemed to enjoy. He even drew some very detailed pictures of all the human characters in the story. He is still a beginner (in some ways) to narrating, so other than making sure he “keeps to the text” (he has a great imagination), I allow him to share all he remembers. My goal is that they do come away with a new idea, maybe “changed” in some way (for the good, of course) by having read the story.
I’m sorry to have hijacked your thread, Amanda, but as you can see from my other posts (narration examples) this topic fascinates me as much as it frightens me. I worry that in some way I’m not doing it right.
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Can I just say that this part of the CM philosophy is the most interesting to me. This part of our day, whether it’s oral narration or having the dc draw, is the best form of expression to observe my kids partake in. With my oldest (and younger 2 sometimes) it brings discussions I don’t know would have happened otherwise, or time that is set aside specifically for us to connect through the book. My two younger ones have come to expect it and enjoy it. They WANT to express themselves after we’ve (or they) read something, almost like, “Now I get to comment, share what has been stirred.” Does that sound crazy?? I know it sounds a little sappy, but I also know what we did before CM and it was not near as meaningful.
I hope I’m on the right thought process in regards to narration, if not, please advise, I’m all ears.
my3boys,
I like how you expressed your thoughts on narration. 🙂
I just borrowed some of all these ideas and tried them with my children. I saw a difference in their willingness to share what they had been reading about this morning. Instead of saying the ususal “Okay. After you read you need to give me a narration.” I said to my son, “So tell me what’s going on in Viking Adventures.” I got an excited narration of the first three chapters AND Sister had to stop doing math so that she could hear what Brother’s book was about. I have been approaching it all wrong! Instead of making narration a time for sharing I had made it something like a dreaded test.
Sister is working a lot on her own so I said to her that as she finishes a subject I would love for her to come and tell me about what she had learned today. Again…longer, better, and more excited narrations for science, Bible, and history readings. I had no idea that MY way of asking for a narration could make or break their eagerness to share!
Thanks to all of you for sharing.
Do all of you handle narrations (oral especially) by always, always having them narrate to you immediately after having read the passage? Or do you, at some point, have the more experienced narrators give you their oral narrations (or work on written ones) at the end of the school day? If you do the latter, when do you start doing that and for which subject?
Just curious, because I am looking forward to reaching a point with my youngest where she doesn’t need to narrate after such a short passage (i.e., just a few sentences or a paragraph). She’s getting the how-to of narration and has improved, but it’s still early in this skill for her.
Unfortunately, I can relate, lol. Awhile back I think my way of asking only prompted fear and judgment in my dc. They were looking at me like at any moment I was going to hit some buzzer and shout, “Wrong!” Or that when they were finished I was going to point out what they forgot, didn’t get, or just plain messed up. Why would anyone want to narrate (share their feelings) with someone that already had it in their minds they were going to miss the boat before they even attempted to get in??
I’m so glad that we/I did not give up in this area of CM. It’s like anything worth waiting for. The process of getting “there” may be difficult but the end result is actually what you’ve been wanting the whole time, well, for most people.
@Amanda, thanks for “questioning” this part of CM. All of the discussions on it have helped ME so much.
Great post, thanks for asking the qu., Amanda! I think I’m too often guilty of expecting a certain answer out of them to make sure they get the main points (history and science mainly)….which probably can feel stifling for them. It’s so true that they remember best what THEY care about, not what *I* care about! Such a delicate balance.Thanks, Gina
I’m glad you all have also been helped by my questions. I was just telling my husband today at lunch that after all my reading, studying, and questioning…I can finally see how to apply this new knowledge in our everyday lives and it WORKS! How exciting is that?
🙂
I’m so glad to see people discovering the real power of narration! If only the rest of the world got this . . . it is one of those things that has effects even far beyond what we see immediately. It is so worth it!
Sue, I vary some for WHEN I expect a narration. I actually had a “ponderer” who could narrate better to me LATER. I would often ask him right after anyway, but I’d get a stilted short thing, and if I asked him to tell us about his reading a few hours later over dinner, I’d get this amazing fluent narration. LOL One of the reasons I’m a big proponent of “Tell Daddy when he comes home” both to help with those “ponderers” and also to involve Daddy and let him see CM methods in action. When I have several kids working at many levels, sometimes they just have to wait. They know they can either 1. hold it in until later or 2. write it down now and I’ll read it later if I can’t listen to them right away.
(Sorry this is so long and late in the discussion)
I really enjoyed Sonya’s recent blog post, Ready-Made Opinions. http://simplycharlottemason.com/2012/01/18/ready-made-opinions/
I think it expressed (indirectly) a great reason why narrating is one of the primary methods used in a Charlotte Mason inspired education. I thought it was well said by Sonya that we ought to “…make sure we demonstrate the justice of honestly thinking out our opinions rather than grabbing them ready-made.” Isn’t that the point of narrations, to provide children with opportunities to express their own opinions about their readings without any constraints?
It is fine to use narrations for instruction in spelling, grammar, and format writing (copywork and dictation are also effective for these lessons). However, with narrations, I believe that the content ought never to take a backseat. A child should feel that the content of his/her retelling was heard and respected. Charlotte Mason style narrations, in my opinion ;-), were not intended to be “ready-made” using a certain mold, standard, or format.
For example, my eldest daughter has dyslexic tendencies and prefers to read aloud her written narrations to me before we look it over to edit together. She is sensitive because I had made much ado about her spelling, grammar, and format in the past instead of praising her content, those ideas that were spinning around in her mind and finally pinned down on paper. She is skilled in imagination and continually amazes me when I actually stop and listen to her fully rather than focus on a completed and error-free page.
This brings to mind a story about Francis Schaeffer and his dyslexia. Supposedly, one of his college professors was very enthralled reading his papers and recognized a great thinker. Because Schaeffer’s spelling and grammar were atrocious, the professor gladly agreed to grade his work based solely on the thought-provoking content. Encouraged to share this content, Schaeffer later wrote many popular theological books (with the assistance of an editor as most great writers).
My favorite line from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr’s “I have a Dream” speech is: “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” The content of a person’s character is who he/she really is at the heart and is visible through the thoughts, opinions, and actions of the person. In a small but sweet way, the content of the simplest narration provides a peak into a child’s thinking heart, the mind. And the little details, for some children, never go without notice and are quite fascinating, Yes, I know that this is a bit out of context of the speech, but it is fresh in my mind since listening to the recording this week on MLK Day.
Amanda, I humbly suggest that you trust your motherly instinct, release this idea of the summary-narration to the wind if it’s stifling, and rest in the confidence that your children are great thinkers waiting for the opportunity for a motherly audience. I am ever so thankful for Charlotte Mason’s teachings on education because her methods encourage us “to do our duty in our thoughts and form just opinions.” (Charlotte Mason quote from Sonya’s blog post, Ready-Made Opinions) I enjoy listening to or reading my children’s narrations because they usually bring something to light that I would have missed (…out of the mouth of babes…You have ordained strength…Psalm 8).
Janell
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