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Talk me OUT of Sonlight…please!

This topic has 24 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 10 months ago by AussieMummy.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)

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June 14, 2011 at 7:41 pm
blessedmom
Member
I spend so much time researching, planning, trying, tweaking, looking for books, etc….that it’s driving me crazy! … and it’s taking precious time away from my children. I LOVE the idea of CM, but this year (our first CM attempt) really didn’t turn out like I’d hoped. We would be in Module 6 of SCM…hence the constant “planning.” My oldest ds will be in 10th and my younger ds will be in 6th…so combining them is getting even harder.
Sonlight has all the discussion points, integrated writing that I have been missing trying to do CM narrations with older students…and we have just not been successful. It is all.planned.out…all my time would be able to be spent WITH my kids, reading and discussing, rather than on the computer or in bookstores.
I have found good books, many from SCM recommendations…I just don’t know what to DO with them!! They read, and that’s it. Our composition skills were nil this year…since I am only a CM-wannabe. I don’t know what to require of them on a daily basis. My guys definitely need those written communication skills, especially my 10th grader. I look at the sample written compositions in SCM’s Language Arts book…and my guys just can’t do that.
I’ve run the gamut in my searching: Queen’s Language Lessons (but it’s not integrated into other subjects), Write Shop (maybe TOO structured), Bravewriter (great philosophy, but no structure). I’ve all but given up on combining them, so 2 Sonlight Cores wouldn’t really deter me. I have just let them down this year in preparing them for communicating and writing. I really don’t want to spend my whole summer planning…and re-planning…searching and re-searching.
Talk me down from the ledge…because I’m ready to jump!
June 14, 2011 at 8:52 pm
martajoy
Participant
I totally understand what you are feeling right now! I got the book “Planning your CM education”…and even with this book I am slightly overwhelmed. What I have found is that I have to do it in small steps. What I found very helpful FOR ME is spending 20 minutes a day! HMMM! There is a CM philosophy! BUT I find that it even works for adults…then I read a bit on Charlotte Mason herself. Little by little…even tho I may not see it I am growing and learning each day. Little by little. SO maybe do a little bit each day and work it out that way. Take brakes. Too much of new information all at once will throw anyone for the loop.
can’t wait what other…more seasoned CM homeschooling moms have to say!
Praying for you!
June 14, 2011 at 9:08 pm
joannarammell
Participant
Well, out of it–hmmm. I called my friend the other day and asked her –when do you plan? She said about 1 to 1.5 hours per weekend. But she then went on to say…but when mine were your children’s ages (little) I didn’t plan a thing. I said, “huh?” She said that’s why I just used Sonlight. EVERYTHING was laid out for me. I am trying to opt out of Sonlight as I have already invested in other items that I am blending into a CM approach…but finding planning time is crazy hard with four under 7. A thought, have you ever looked at Understanding Writing http://familydiscipleshipmin.com/faqs/understanding-writing-info/? With your situation…it might help but only with the composition aspect…not integrated to history, etc. Probably not very helpful, sorry.
Joanna
June 14, 2011 at 10:09 pm
art
Participant
I don’t want to talk negatively about anyone’s curriculum, but since you asked to be talked out of Sonlight…
Have you ever used it before?
I bought a core for kindergarten several years ago, and I ended up returning it because it was WAY more overwhelming to me than planning for myself or not even having a plan.
Then last year, I bought another one for 5th grade (same student), I couldn’t return this one when I changed my mind because I had written my last name in the books–stupid. I had to sell it instead.
I won’t do it again. I feel like for me, using someone else’s “all laid out” lesson plans are just too much. I feel the same way you do about not knowing what to do or not having helped my kids this last year, but I simply cannot use detailed plans laid out by other people. At the beginning of the Sonlight manual, they say you have to study it and how to use us for something like 20 hours (I forget exactly how many) to be able to use it. Then when you do use it you are constantly looking up what you’re supposed to do.
When I had a 10th grader, I gave him 2 week plans. He had to read a book and write a report of some kind about it. Maybe a character study or some other certain aspect. He also had to read a history book and report on it too–same style. Sometimes prepare an oral report.
Math was math, and we used Apologia Science with all the labs and tests. We used his writing in literature and history as English class. We did so little planning it was amazing. I just picked books, due dates, and report topics.
I’m going to have a 6th grader this year, and I’m going to try the same kind of planning for her this year. I think it will work; I’ll just have to be more involved than I was with my high schooler.
Another thing about Sonlight for older kids is that you really have to watch the books. I don’t know how you feel about swearing and other things, but some of their books for older ones have things I object to. They explain why; and I understand, but that doesn’t change the fact.
So there you go. I don’t know if I talked you out of it, but it really is a TON of money and in my experience it is too complicated.
June 14, 2011 at 11:56 pm
joannarammell
Participant
I’m with art about some of the content of Sonlight. When I researched it, I was troubled by the extensive mythology –there was a picture in their catalog of children dressing up as gods for the day. They had to act and speak in character all day. Was just a bit much for me. Don’t get me wrong I have taught my daughter that people make up false gods…how could we not teach that and teach about Egypt and Moses…but I don’t think it is healthy to dwell on it especially when young. So I sort of just brush over it lightly when she asks what is that –pointing to a statue of some god or other…I don’t name it or anything…I just say, an idol or false god. She gets that concept quite thoroughly! And though Sonlight does offer some good books–I don’t like all of their choices…I have found several other sources of good books and I combine them all and give the list to my librarian. She’s a gem! Then she gets them together from wherever–and what comes in is what we read!
June 15, 2011 at 12:32 am
morgrace
Participant
I could have written the first line of your post myself this spring! I have a couple of thoughts and I’ll send a post message later this evening after my kiddos are in bed.
June 15, 2011 at 12:57 am
grace4today
Member
I have used Sonlight before and found it very overwhelming. I also have a high schooler that I was concerned about regarding his writing skills.I used Epi Kardia this past year which helped him with writing the different essays. That seemed to work well. It is set up that you can integrate it with other subjects,which you seem to want to do. It is for high school so that wont help with your younger kids. Hope that helps. Wendy
June 15, 2011 at 1:58 am
blessedmom
Member
You all have such lovely hearts! To reach out and help me…I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. I appreciate your insights, as well, and am taking them all to the Lord tonight when I head to bed! You’ve given me much to consider.
I just want to do right by my children. I want to prepare them, and I feel that piecing things together myself that I may be letting important skills through the cracks. We’ve just read…which is good…but we haven’t acted on what we’ve learned. Narrations are frustrating since we don’t have that CM-from-the-beginning foundation, and without that we have no basis for the written compostitions that are SUPPOSED to flow naturally out of that. There is, therefore, no accountability for them, and nothing but frustration for me in having not led them to do their best.
Thank you all so very much…I am encouraged that I am not alone in this!
June 15, 2011 at 2:41 am
AussieMummy
Participant
Can I confess I haven’t read the replies yet, but I wanted to chime in on this topic. I understand, 100% where you are coming from. I was spending so much time planning and organizing stuff that I was suffering from a huge load of burn-out. My kids LOVED everything we were doing, my husband was happy with it, I enjoyed it. But I was tired of doing ALL that. Kwim?
Plus, my dh and I weren’t seeing each other that much because of the amount of time I was busy all weekend long getting stuff ready to roll for the following week. I told my dh that I felt a need for change was fast upon us. I explained that I felt we never saw each other, that I spent too much time planning, and on and on.
He told me to do the research and let him know. So I did. I researched literature based and CM based curriculum. I was one click away from purchasing the stuff from Sonlight. I didn’t do it. Not because I wasn’t sold on the stuff, but because I wasn’t convinced it was a perfect fit for our family. I wanted to keep the fun in our school and for our family that means hands on crafts and activities as well as good quality books.
I felt Sonlight could meet ONE of those needs, but not all. They had good quality books. In fact, 98% of the books on their list were books I had scheduled to read to my kids this year. There were only a few I wasn’t keen on. They also had the plus of shipping to me which is big in my neck of the woods. Yet, they didn’t completely fit in with my hands approach. I will admit I found a yahoo group of people who use SL for a CM education, but I wasn’t into it. I wasn’t sold on the product{s}.
There were a few CM based curriculums that would have taken the planning out for me, but they were all grade specific and we like to school as a family so I wasn’t happy with those. If I was going to spend a fortune on curriculum it was going to have to fit into each of my little needs. Kwim?
I was one click away from Sonlight when I heard about Winters Promise. They fit into all my needs. They were a CM based curriculum. They have narration, copy work, and picture study. They scheduled great living books, again books on my list for the year, and they also scheduled lots of fun hands on activities. This was what I was after!
Now, having said all that, they do get a bad rap for their Customer Service. I would say this area of their company does lack and I feel it’s fair warning to say so. That said, I had no issues. I ordered stuff and it was shipped out within the time frames they said. They split it into three parcels.
I picked All American 1 because we are in the course of studying American History. The curriculum choice I made {AA1} covers grades 1-7 and has a highschool add on. I don’t need the later but I did find it fun that was possible. I ended up ordering the Guide, Timeline, Picture Study, & Character Traits books. The rest I purchased from other places. This, I suspect ensured that I got speedy and quick delivery. It also ensured that I didn’t pay a fortune for shipping.
The reason I went with this was to have it all scheduled out for me. I needed that for now. It also gave me the oppertunity to work some other things in I normally don’t get to because I’m so busy working on everything else. I also decided to fork out for their science because it included a lot of Nature Walk type stuff. I was happy with that.

After saying ALL that. I’m happy with my purchase. I am! It’s such a relief to know I can work on other things.. I can read the books stacked up around here. That my kids are still growing and learning and that I’m not having to deal EVERY single second of the day. Kwim? WIll I use WP forever? I doubt it, but for this season of my life it’s perfect for us.
I’m also going to disclose that if you’re only after having your child DO more and you’re not fully worried about doing the planning yourself you could keep some notebooking papers on hand. A jar full of Narration ideas, etc. For instance, with WP they won’t say “have your child narrate to you ….” instead they include gobs of ideas for narration. Their suggestion is you cut them out put them in a jar and have the child pick one out after reading. Walla, that’s what they narrate to you for the day.
I’ve really stepped outside my normal comfort zone with this switch and I was really worried I’d be unhappy because I’m not normally a curriculum person. But I’ve been so happy with all the switches I made. I’m not kidding. We switched with everything. We stopped our “living math” lessons on a MAJOR scale and I put the kids in a math programme. They are both above grade level which makes me pleased with the Living Math we did. It shows it worked and I do plan to return to it and do living math lessons x days per week.
We’re doing Spelling Wisdom for dictation and some spelling work. I have one child who’s spelling is so rotten {and he knows it and hates it} I’ve decided to use Spellwell with him. I feel it has a bit of CM flare to it and I wanted to give him that extra boost because of his own concern. I’ll admit I’ve even forked out for English/LA {Queens} this year.
Again, that’s another thing I debated with. We’ve never had formal lessons for that topic. My kids know a HUGE amount of in this area and I’m happy with what they know. I also felt the need to be sure all gaps were filled in. What I’m the absolute happiest with everything is that I can sit back and ENJOY the school year withOUT stressing over planning.
I’m not sure that’s what you WANTED to hear. I’m just sharing my experience. Sometimes, I think we have to sway in an effort to keep our sanity. Kwim? For me it was make the switch to something preplanned, as long as it fit in all my guidelines, or it was have total burnout. If I had total burnout my kids would learn nothing and most likely end up in a public school setting. I didn’t want that for them.
The other thing to consider is.. Are you planning because you need to or are you over planning? It’s easy to get caught up in that and I also think there’s a very vine line between the two.. I also think it’s easier to make a decision if you have specifics. I had NO IDEA there was SO MUCH curriculum out there to choose from! I really didn’t. Can you tell we aren’t curriculum people?!?! I had no idea and if I hadn’t had specifics I was looking for I would have EASILY been overwhelmed and bowled over without a doubt.
June 15, 2011 at 11:28 am
simple home
Member
AussieMummy, your post was great! Thanks for sharing all of your experience with us. I just want to chime in with you and say that I wholeheartedly agree about burn out with planning. I KNOW what I want my kids to be doing, but it takes a lot of prep and work to get ti going. My entire reason for doing SCM recommendations is because I needed simplicity. I can keep it as simple as I need to. My main problem is making the decisions because there is so much good stuff recommended.
I did Sonlight two years, and I got very burned out trying to do their guide everyday. It gets very old, and I like having the freedom to quit or start something as I see fit. But since I PAID for the guide, I felt guilty if I didn’t use it completely.
I like how Sonya is giving for instance, a pre-planned SIMPLE kit for picture study. More options like this really helps us moms who don’t want to take a lot of time for planning, or spend a lot of money on an all inclusive curriculum. I hope for more of these types of
resources in the future.
HTH!
June 15, 2011 at 12:51 pm
blessedmom
Member
First of all…THANK YOU ALL! I am soaking up all your responses and suggestions. Now I have more research to do! 😀
I am familiar with Sonlight but have never used it before, so thank you for the warning about the books. I am worried about it being overwhelming…but this planning has been even more overwhelming to me. I so want to use REAL books instead of textbooks for my guys, and that’s what led me to Sonlight over some of the other curricula. I will have to look over WP and Epi Kardia some more.
I guess my real problem is language arts, and how to integrate it with other subjects. I have just failed at applying CM methods of narration and composition with my guys. It fell flat and never recovered for us, maybe because they are older. If I could utilize those techniques properly, I wouldn’t worry about a schedule so much. I would just have our stack of good books and go through them.
Writing is our big stumbling block. I just don’t want it to be a separate subject. “Tell me about what you learned,” just doesn’t give either me or the kids enough direction, I guess. I know my youngest especially needs more hands-on than we have done also.
I have been trying Diana Waring’s curriculum…which I love. I thought it would be the perfect blend of structure but not too much structure. My problem with trying to schedule that out is that we are at the end of RRR and the beginning of WWW (around the American Revolution time period), and it is mainly World History. So I have been trying to squeeze the American History books we want to read into the Units on World History, to cover it simultaneously. The books are different for both boys. Needless to say, it’s a big jumble!!
I want to cover US and World History from the American Revolution on over the next 2 years for a 10th grader and a 6th grader. My plan was to cover Government this coming year during the 1800’s and Economics during the 1900’s. My youngest expressed an interest in the Time Travelers cds for hands-on. And in all that mix, I am trying to address their writing weaknesses, integrating it into their studies.
Boy, I am exhausted just thinking about it all again. Time to stop for a while!
Thank you all for your thoughts and words…you are a blessing! I appreciate it more than you know!
Christine
June 15, 2011 at 1:08 pm
4myboys
Participant
Blessedmom,
I hear ya! Honestly, I haven’t started homeschooling yet (not until September) so I don’t feel qualified yet to offer much advice, but one thing did occur to me as I read over your last post. I have thought of similar problems with structure and writing and I have come up with something I hope will work for us: using rubics.
Basically my plan is to give them an out line of how the piece will be graded based on the quality of the introduction, body and conclusion. If I am expecting five paragraphs for instance, than they should know that one paragraph will be the introduction which states clearly what the piece is about, then they should include three paragraphs onlining three seperate points relating to the topic outlined in the intro, then a final concluding statement to sum it all up. The rubic will also outline that proper use of conventions such as puctuation, capitlaization, proper sentence structure, grammar, flow of ideas, etc. are required. Giving them a rubic to follow should let them know exactly what is expected, and help me to determin exactly how well they are accomplishing the tasks assigned.
http://www.rubrics4teachers.com/languagearts.php
This is only one of MANY websites where you can find sample rubics.
June 15, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Wings2fly
Participant
I agree with Art about using Sonlight. I could not stick with someone else’s schedule. We like some of the books, but it is easier for me to do our own plan and use some of their books. Use their catalogue for a booklist and take a look at the book from the library before you decide to use it. Use Sonya’s free curriculum guide as a basis. I recommend Sonya’s All Day Seminar, which includes language arts. There is also an audio of Sonya about LA on mp3 for $2.99 at this link:
http://www.iche.org/store/products/audio/2039/language-arts-charlotte-mason-way
Have you looked into the book on SCM of Hearing and Reading, Telling and Writing? The free sample includes a chapter on Narration. Have you read that? Do you have Sonya’s Planning your Charlotte Mason Education?
http://simplycharlottemason.com/books/hearing-and-reading-telling-and-writing-a-charlotte-mason-language-arts-handbook/
You may use someone else’s planned curriculum for a season, but you will be happiest with what you plan for your children. You know them best. It does not have to be perfect. Since you are worried most about language arts, focus more school time on that for now until you find what works. My son is younger, but he was in tears over the Sonlight LA 1 activity sheets. That was the last day we used it. We are trying Queen LL now. I think you have to expect to spend more time planning at first until you find what works best for your family. There is a huge learning curve.
KISS (Keep It Simple Sweetie) and hugs!
June 15, 2011 at 11:41 pm
petitemom
Participant
Aussiemummy your post was very helpful to me. I was actually also considering Sonlight for history. That would not work for me because i do not want to do American history this year and that seems to be the better option w/my kids age. So I looked into Winters promise and got very excited about one of the program. I called them up and got to speak w/someone right away and you can even order over the phone. (Which is not an option w/Sonlight and gets very complicated when you don’t want to buy a whole curriculum)
Thanks for sharing those info.
and plus the swearing, really!?! I’m wondering if I’ll ever look in Sonlight in the future. Am wondering how much,how bad and which age group we are talking.
That is not something acceptable to me.
June 16, 2011 at 2:10 pm
Des
Participant
blessedmom, i’m having the same problem except that i’m wanting to choose MFW and i’m pretty certain that it wouldn’t work, I couldn’t even follow Sonya’s handbook this year so how am I going to follow the schedule from MFW. That’s the reason I haven’t bought it, I can’t afford to buy something that costs that much and then not use it. The ladies have give you some great advice that I intend to use myself hopefully, we’ll both get some peace about our plans.

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