Name: Spreading the Feast Gathering
Start: 2025-07-11T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-07-12T23:59:59-05:00
Location: LaGrange, KY

This topic has 17 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by Sonya Shafer.

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November 3, 2011 at 1:06 pm
JennNC
Participant
We are in Module 6 and have had difficulty finding a good spine for my high schooler. We are using TCOO for the family readings. Someone suggested (Linda? Bookworm? can’t remember for sure) that we use Johnson’s book for additional high school reading at a deeper level. The trouble is, my son struggles sometimes with the text because of frequent references or allusions to things he doesn’t know about or understand. Naturally he asks me to explain — and I am finding that my education has apparently been even more lacking than I thought it was and I often don’t have a clear enough understanding to explain things very well.
So I feel kind of stupid posting this but frankly I’m not sure how to come up to speed at this point. If I try to research everything that comes up — well, we won’t make any forward progress.
As an example, in the section on banks on page 285 and following, I find that I don’t understand enough about economics to really explain what happened here or even know what a “chartered” bank is/was.
Should we start with something else first? Or try to find the time to research everything that comes up? Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
~Jenn
November 3, 2011 at 1:19 pm
JennNC
Participant
It might be important to add that we did not start this book at the beginning — we started with Part 3, because that is where we are in our history studies. So… maybe that is part of the problem? I am just thinking it is possible that Johnson is referencing things he already covered in more detail in earlier sections of the book.
You guys have to promise NOT TO LAUGH AT ME! I feel so silly asking these questions. [sheepish grin]
November 3, 2011 at 1:38 pm
missingtheshire
Member
We used Johnson from the beginning, however I need to add that the girls lpve to read and enjoy history. Are you doing his American book? You may prefer A Patriots History of the United States – here is the amazon link.
http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-History-United-States-Columbuss/dp/1595230017
We read both and really enjoyed them. I don’t like starting a book in the middle, at least not this type of book – these are not the easiest of books but they are thorough and well written. As I did not use the SCM modules I cannot speak to that, because we built our own history study using books I already had or that were recommended by HEO. If he is not understanding, then it is not likely to work well for him. Some history that is written assumes you know some background and it can be more of a slog if you don’t know and have to do the research. When the girls did not know about something they asked me, and then if it was something that I could not answer – which was often in the US history as I studied British and European in college – then they would research for their answers. This worked in the plans we had – it may not in the schedule you have. Your question is a valid one, and not stupid (remember there are no stupid questions, ever) because I love history and studied a great deal of it and still do, I assume that people are familiar with things…the girls had to use many more or their research skills in the US history book than in the other history we have studied, because I was less familiar. It may well have been me that recommended the book as I love Johnson’s work, but I may have assumed that you would have started at the beginning which gives a more rounded picture of the times and to be honest I would have your son research the things he is unsure of – how old is he? I also love the Notgrass history and government and economics books, we have used those for extra reading as well – yes we rather overdo history I admit it….but we don’t follow the curriculum as written – if the Johnson book is too much of a slog try the Patriots or Notgrass they may be better. Not every book is right for everyone – however I like the girls to research the things they don’t know, so if the chartered bank came up, I would have them look it up – a good skill to have, I do it with unfamiliar words as well – even though I know the answer I won’t tell them I expect them to use the dictionary and do the work, not take the easy way out. I am sorry if this is not working for you – let me know if you have any other questions. Linda
November 3, 2011 at 1:38 pm
missingtheshire
Member
sorry double post –
November 3, 2011 at 10:37 pm
JennNC
Participant
Linda you always make me feel better… and you are right, there are no stupid questions, I guess I just am feeling like I should know this stuff! But I am hoping to give my kids a much better education than I had and that means learning along with them. After reading your response I have decided to have him start back at the beginning of the book and we’ll just go through it at the pace we can, researching along the way as we need to — today we spent time looking up banks and it was really fun, actually.
He is 14 and in 9th grade, a great student, but this is the first time he has read something of this thinking level. Years ago when he was a K’er we started with CM but quickly went the workbook route. We are just coming back to CM little by little the last couple of years (this is our first almost completely CM year) and I think he is used to being spoon fed the information.
I will look at the other book you linked to… I may look at Notgrass too, although I really don’t want to give up on Johnson. I would like to find a way to make one of his books work. I would like to be able to read Johnson and know what he is talking about! Anyway, thank you again for your encouragement Linda. 🙂 We’re going to give it a go.
~Jenn
November 3, 2011 at 10:46 pm
JennNC
Participant
Linda — if you have time, would you mind explaining just a bit what the main difference is between the Patriot’s History that you linked to and A History of the American People (the one I already have)?
November 4, 2011 at 12:46 am
missingtheshire
Member
Jenn, I have always been a fan of Paul Johnson, he was once a socialist and then began to see through Margaret Thatcher and other things the reasons why socialism is a disaster and fails – I am a huge fan of Margaret Thatcher and as he was one of her closest advisors I started reading his work. I also like the fact that he is very fond of the US and is an admirer, so it was a no brainer for me to have books for our high school.
Here is a piece from Wiki about him
Johnson began to advocate future British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s message of less government and less taxation. He was eventually won over to the Right and became one of Thatcher’s closest advisers. “In the 1970s Britain was on its knees. The Left had no answers. I became disgusted by the over-powerful trade unions which were destroying Britain,” he recalled later.] After Thatcher’s victory in the general election of 1979 Johnson advised on changes to legislation concerning trade unions, and was also one of Thatcher’s speechwriters. “I was instantly drawn to her,” he recalls. “I’d known Margaret at Oxford. She was not a party person. She was an individual who made up her own mind. People would say that she was much influenced by Karl Popper or Frederick Hayek. The result was that Thatcher followed three guiding principles: truthfulness, honesty and never borrowing money,” says Johnson.
Of course he is British so I thought it would be good to read a book from a US author, and The Patriots History was the one I came up with….it is an excellent read and I think in some ways a slightly easier and more personable read. I read it first and gained a lot of interesting stuff from it, US history is my weak spot and I have learned along with the girls on that as well. It also goes up to recent times past 9/11 so adds a bit to Johnson’s book. If you do find Johnson too much of a slog I like the Patriots book a lot, so you could use that.
I also have Johnson’s Modern Times, and The History of the Jews, and Renaissance and Reformation, which are also very good.
Another author I like who we used for Modern History as well is Sir Martin Gilbert’s A History of the Twentieth Century: The Concise Edition of the Acclaimed World History, it is a brilliant book. He was the official biographer of Winston Churchill and is a favorite historian of mine. He has written some wonderful books on the Holocaust and Jewish history as well. So if you are looking for books to read for the modern period by a different author, then this book is fantastic. Again it is a serious read but well worth while.
All of the author’s of these books are passionate about their subject matter and it shows in the writing, as such I thought it would be excellent and challenging for the girls in high school. The girls had already read a lot of fiction books about the periods in earlier years, so they wanted something a bit meatier. I can say that they enjoyed all these. I wanted them to have to think and discern so they would be better prepared in our current world. They used to read with a notebook alongside and jot down things they needed to look up, and they had fun doing that as well – they are now very fast at gathering information. By having them look the things up themselves it helps them learn at a deeper level and they often come across differing views which then we can discuss. Hope that helps. Linda
November 4, 2011 at 1:26 pm
JennNC
Participant
Oooh lots of interesting info on Paul Johnson! You’ve got me hooked now, I didn’t know about his connection to Margaret Thatcher; that is a very good thing to know! I’ve always much admired her. I am going to have my son read your comments about that.
Patriots does seem a little easier to read from the little bit they have online, and Amazon has a VGC used copy for less than $4 so I may go ahead and pick that up… but truly I am very interested in working through the Johnson book, especially now. Maybe we’ll use a little of both.
I am glad you mentioned the other author as well, I wanted to add a biography of Churchill to the reading list for ds so I think I’ll look that up.
You have inspired me to find time to read a lot of these books myself — you keep talking about *you* reading all these books, not just handing them to your kids, and I think that I just need to do that more, and really work through them with my dc. I was feeling like I don’t have time to do that, but I really see now that it is necessary and I need to FIND the time. Lindafay from Higher Up and Further In (are you familiar with her?) talks about that too, and about how rich the discussions can be if you are reading the books along with the kids.
Thank you, as always. You’ve been very helpful.
~Jenn
November 4, 2011 at 2:29 pm
missingtheshire
Member
Good morning Jenn, yes I am familiar with Lindafay and I am a great advocate of reading the books when I can….this does not mean I have read everything the girls read, but I do try and keep up where I can. The history books are easier for me, because I enjoy them and a lot of them I have read before the girls even had them on their schedule. There were certain books I knew that I wanted the girls to read, a bio on Churchill, a Ronald Reagan book, a Thatcher book and then all of the Real books from American Classics, for example The Real George Washington, The Real Thomas Jefferson etc and some others – I felt those books were important among quite a few others. None are easy reads, but doable and worth the effort. Paul Johnson did a very nice small bio on Churchill, though which I enjoyed along with the Gilbert book.
Here are a few links to the books that are my favorites and some of those I asked the girls to read during high school. They are great for adults to read as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Paul-Johnson/dp/0143117998/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320415426&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Life-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805023968/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320415461&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Reagan-Diaries-Ronald/dp/0061558338/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320415502&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.com/Margaret-Thatcher-Her-Own-Words/dp/1849540551/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320415552&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Real-George-Washington-American-Classic/dp/0880800143/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320415596&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Five-Thousand-Year-Leap-Anniversary/dp/0981559662/ref=pd_sim_b_5
During the high school years, I found the girls have a lot of questions, ideas and thoughts on the things they read, they do narrations written or oral, but naturally they want to discuss things. It is hard to have food discussions when we are unsure ourselves, so I try very hard to read the things they read, especially in the history field and also try and bring some of my own experiences to the discussion – I was born in the late 50s and I was in Germany when the wall came down, and in fact got engaged to my husband at the Berlin Wall just prior to it coming down – so I have lived close to some of the history – I had a German mum and an English dad, so have two sides of the second world war and through their parents two views of the first world war – so it helps me bring some of those things to life. It is impossible to know all history, I am still learning so much about your history here in the US and I hope to continue to learn until my last breath. Do what you can in regards to reading along with him or just a bit ahead of him. People don’t believe it but history can be really enjoyable, it is not just dates and memorization, it is a chance to dig into a time period and learn about people, cultures, mistakes that were made and the events that lead to those mistakes, the victories and failures, human failings and successes – wonderful stuff, and in history there are some wonderful role models for our children to learn from. It does not need to be boring…but I do believe in challenging them in high school and asking them to think a little harder than they would need to if they had a textbook or a fiction book, though both of those can have their uses as well. The above mentioned books do challenge them but they did not rush – it makes them think and question and that is always good. Through their history studies they are clearly now seeing the errors that are being made in our current world, and why we are in serious financial difficulty worldwide…they now find themselves better equipped to understand our times and they are very aware. We supplement these books with documentaries and movies that pertain to the time period as well, that adds to the enjoyment and a lot can be rented or ordered through the library and some important ones we have purchased to watch again.
Regards the Patriot book, that is a good price and I too would snap it up – it is a great addition to a home library whether you read it now or in the future, be careful not to confuse him by reading them at the same time. Anyway, hope this all helps a bit, my hope for all teens is that they can come out of high school enjoying history, so they can continue to learn throughout life – that goes for all subjects really but especially history for me. Anyway, good luck – Linda
November 5, 2011 at 10:46 am
Rachel White
Participant
I second the Patriot’s History…book and Five Thousand Year Leap.
MAy I also recommend William Bennett’s series:
America: The Last Best Hope Vol 1, from Columbus to WW1-http://www.christianbook.com/america-last-best-hope-volume-1/william-bennett/9781595550552/pd/550550?event=CF#curr
Vol. 2, from WW1 to 1989: http://www.christianbook.com/america-volume-2-world-triumph-freedom/william-bennett/9781595550873/pd/550873?event=CF#curr
Vol. 3, from 1988 to 2008 (Obama election):http://www.christianbook.com/america-volume-3-collapse-communism-radical/william-bennett/9781595554284/pd/554284?product_redirect=1&Ntt=554284&item_code=&Ntk=keywords&event=ESRCP#curr

I think Bennett’s books (vol. 3 esp.) are going to be the best hope (pun intended) for high schoolers studying a Mod. 6 time period that is available. He is highly regarded in this area.
Rachel
November 5, 2011 at 12:19 pm
JennNC
Participant
Thanks for all the links Linda and Rachel! Planning to spend part of the morning going through them each. I’m looking forward that. 🙂
Linda your passion for history is infectious…. I have to admit, I did hate history growing up and thought it was the most boring subject on the planet, save chemistry of course. But I never had a teacher who loved history. What I did have was an endless round of textbooks. Over the last 10 years or so, learning with the kids, I have grown to really love history (and thankfully, they do too!) but I find that there is still so much I need to learn. Sometimes I think I didn’t learn a single thing when I was in school. Ok — 1492. I learned that. But truly, not much more than that. What is amazing about that is that I went to the “good” schools! Downright shocking, really.
Thanks for being willing to share all those links and information and have a peek into your life — so interesting! What a cool story about your engagement! Your girls are very fortunate to be taught by you.
Jenn
November 5, 2011 at 12:20 pm
JennNC
Participant
Rachel, is the SCM team considering the Bennett books for the Module 6 guide due out in spring?
November 5, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Rachel White
Participant
I have no idea:maybe we should put a bug in the their ear. I’ll pm Sonya.
Rachel
November 8, 2011 at 1:43 pm
Sonya Shafer
Moderator
Thanks for the tip, Rachel. I have them on hold at the library so I can take a look at them. The excerpts looked inviting.
November 8, 2011 at 2:35 pm
missingtheshire
Member
I like those books as well, they are on my shelf along with the others so I would also recommend them – Bennett has written some wonderful books for all ages to enjoy.