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Struggling with math with one child, would teaching textbooks help both of us?
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I will try to give brief background information, my 7 yr old daughter is a very challenging child and has been ever since she could roll over:) We are very consistent with attitude problems/rebellion,etc. but it’s a never ending battle and it comes out quite a bit in math. I use Math U See and really like it, my first child did/is doing very well in Epsilon, two younger ones are doing great with Primer, and then my 7yr old has done well until we started Gamma, and then said she doesn’t remember any of the review problems. This was concerning because she really didn’t seem to remember them, so we have gone back to Beta and started over, trying to use the manipulative blocks more often than we did first time around. On a good day she takes up almost an hour or two of my time just for her math. I am really discouraged(understatement) and have 5 other children to be helping with school/taking care of. My husband is very willing and does teach her sometimes when I have just had enough, but I would like his evenings/weekends to be with the whole family, not just tied up with her. So I was wondering if teaching textbooks would be a good solution to having her with a different “teacher” than myself, to be able to work through things on her own? I am not very familiar with the program (besides the high cost!). Or maybe there are other math curriculums that would be better? I think Math U See is best for our family, and I’ve seen how it works well for different kinds of learners, but I’m open to trying something if I need to. Thank you
I really like TT for my 11YO, but I don’t know that I would use it for a child as young as 7 unless that child was confident in math.
That said, you can try sample lessons of TT at http://www.teachingtextbooks.com. That’s what sold me on the program for my oldest last year. My 7YO, who just “gets” math, will start TT4 this summer.
About the high cost: don’t forget that if you buy it used and sell it when you are done, you will recoup almost 100% of the cost! TT retains its value because it is a quality, reliable program.
Thank you, I looked at the link and it was helpful, as well as thinking of the resale value. I glanced at the placement tests and she would actually do well on both TT3 and TT4, she just hasn’t done the higher multiplication and fractions yet, but all the rest she understands. I know it is designed to be pretty independent learning, but do you find you are still involved quite a bit? And does the program let her continue even while missing things, or would she have to show mastery in a skill before moving on?
TT is completely independent for my 11YO. I only get involved if he is struggling with comprehending a new topic or if he has a challenging problem.
One thing I love about TT is that it automatically grades each lesson. The students are allowed to progress even if they do not do well on a lesson, but not in our house. 😉 If my son is not understanding something, I’ll go into the gradebook, erase the score, and we’ll work through the lesson again – together.
Teaching Textbooks is a spiral math program. You do not show mastery before moving on. Someone recently did a blog post on the different types of math programs but I don’t remember who it was. I think if you are waffling between TT3 and TT4 you should use TT3. Especially if you want her to work independently it would be better to have something that is not overly challenging.
My 6 year old just started Teaching Textbooks 3. I set the timer for 10 minutes and she works diligently. I know 10 minutes doesn’t really sound like a lot but she is doing a good job staying focused and completes one lesson every other day or so. I am in the room with her in case she has a question. What I’m trying to prevent is what my older girls have struggled with – taking 1 1/2 hours to do math because they weren’t focused. And short lessons is a fundamental CM concept.
In response to JennyMN’s post, the blog post I think she is referring to was:
http://reflectionsfromdrywoodcreek.blogspot.com/2013/02/math-mania.html
http://reflectionsfromdrywoodcreek.blogspot.com/2013/03/math-mania-part-2.html
http://reflectionsfromdrywoodcreek.blogspot.com/2013/03/math-mania-part-3.html
I found this to be a good read on the topic of math curriculums.
Just have a minute, but we also start TT3 at age 6-7 in conjunction with math games,activities, and some drill. We love it!
MountainMamma, thanks for all the links. Has anyone used both TT and MUS and able to compare them for me?
I have used both TT and MUS with my dd- also a handful. She has SPD with behavioral problems and was adopted out of an abusive situation and many foster care homes. She has trouble with the sequential thinking and repetive actions (she won’t follow rules of math, but will do a problem or two, then decide to do something compeletly different-just pluggin in numbers; very exasperating!)
We used TT3 with my then10 yr. old because she had gotten stuck at place value and couldn’t move beyond adding and subtr. single digits! I had started her on Dev. Math, then Math MAmmoth then, thinking that TT would be good for her, I tried that-not good. What happened was she was doing the problems on the computer and in her book, but she wasn’t understading what she was doing at all. Sshe was getting the ones in the book wrong and on the computer correct. I think one part of it was that she wanted to get to the games, so she’d do the problems on the comp. correctly, but wouldn’t try hard enough or concentrate in the book. In addition, since it was spiral, she wasn’t getting the repetition she needed to seal the concepts. It went too fast without enough practice.
Finally, after no improvement I switched to MUS Beta. Since she is kinesthetic (of course, with the SPD), she finally grasped the place value concept and she could move on. We;ve only gotten stuck a couple more times, but I’d have her rewatch the DVD, narrate to me what to do and then do it repeatedly (printing out more worksheets) until I thought she was ready for the test. Sometimes, I’ve had to explain how to do it a slightly different way.
So we’re sticking with MUS. MY suggestion is to stay wiht what you’re doing, but stop doing it for so long. At her age, 15 min. on math is enough-if she’s not getting it, going past that isn’t going to help any. I’ve worked with my dd two times in one day in two 15 min, increments to get what was needed done and still maintain her attention. So you can do some math for 15 min., then stop and switch to something using the other part of her brain and at another time of the day, come back and try again. She’s only 7 and not behind. It’s better to have deeply concentrated 15 min., 2x a day than one poorly concentrated time of 1 1/2hr. with you and her getting frustrated.
If it’s an obstinence problem, the breaking it up into 15 min. increments keeps you in charge and not her. Since the time she’s requiring from you, she’s in control, not you. She may remember more than she thinks, she just may need more practice, too. I find that MUS has a good amt. of review from previous concepts. You can print extra problems from the website and she can rewatch the DVD and narrate to you until she gets it.
What do you think it is that’s got her stumped? Lack of comprehension, obstinence or a little of both? Can she tell you what she doesn’t understand? Not remembering is sort of vague; though with breaking down to only 10-15 min. a lesson, you may see a change in that.
Is she auditory? Would addition/subration facts to music help her? It did mine.
Amama… First, hugs to you. I have a 6yo that is very challenging too. It can be draining trying to keep her on track with learning when she would rather be doing anything but that. I wonder if you stepped back from formal lessons a bit if that might help? Maybe do short 15 minute math lessons each day? Make the 15 min count and then move on to something else. Maybe take a step back further and play some games for math for a while? Games that help solidify those facts in a fun way. My kids like playing math drill games on my kindle.
My thoughts on the two programs….We have used MUS primer through prealgebra and also have used TT4, Prealgebra and are moving on to TT algebra.
I like MUS because it is mastery based. I also like the manipulatives in the younger levels. The drawbacks to me were: 1. the grading. With one child it was not a big problem…with 4 children I found it very time consuming. 2. It required me to be very involved in the math instruction. I tried having my oldest just watch the videos with me and then start on the practice pages, but that was rarely enough instruction. I find the program best suited for my dd that has some memory problems/learning issues. She can focus on one concept instead of having lessons that span multiple concepts. I am very involved in the teaching with her.
What I love about TT…independant learning and daily instruction. My oldest has really had her math skills improve with the daily instruction. I love that kids get feedback for wrong answers and an immediate explanation on how to arrive at the correct answer. The grading in the levels I use is automatic which has been a huge time saver for me. The one drawback is that I think some topics go rather quickly. We took a break for part of this year and had my 8yo go back to MUS to learn her multiplication before moving on. There are times when she doesn’t understand a lesson, but for the most part she is independant. It has freed me up to have more time with my 2 struggling learners.
HTH
amama5: I tried pming you, but it didn’t go through.
If you want to try TT3, without paying the full-price, I have my dd’s unfinished book (124 pages used of 604), the 4 CD-ROM’s and the Answer Book.
I’ll clear out my PM a little and maybe you can PM me; if it doesn’t work, let me know on this post and I’ll give you my email.
Thank you so much for all the thoughts/suggestions. I think and hope/pray I am doing the things you mention, and I was thinking last night that I should maybe just try the TT but use our MUS to help her if she needs more practice.
Yes, MUS involves a lot of checking and time, my oldest teaches himself by video/book then checks himself and has to show me ones he does wrong (but with long division, now fractions that takes a long time for me to figure out how the lesson is taught, where he made a mistake, etc.)
I was concerned thinking about TT that my daughter will just figure out how to do things but not why, and move to quickly like you said, Rachel. I got As in math, but never knew why I was doing anything, just figured out the formula and memorized how the teacher wanted me to do things. My daughter is the same way.
I think what happens is that when she comes to something she doesn’t understand/remember, it hurts her pride so then she starts off on an obstinate/manipulative course. So the long lessons aren’t because of not understanding, but rebellion. On a good day when she’s truly not understanding but has a cheerful heart, we stop after 15 minutes and try again the next day. But on the days when you ask her to write a 2 and she writes a 3 repeatedly, or she won’t look at you, or the paper, or days where she says because it can’t be 20 because it just can’t over and over with a defiant tone/posture, we spend many minutes/hours fixing that. I have learned to have her go lie down until she has a better attitude, that way I can spend time with the other children. We also have taken days/weeks where we just play games for a while, and I try to let them have Fridays for math games.
I don’t think she is auditory, I honestly don’t know how she learns best, she seems to understand well after reading things. My first child really needed the MUS blocks, she doesn’t like them and hasn’t needed them because she picks up things pretty quickly most of the time, but then doesn’t retain them.
pinkchopsticks, what games do you have on the kindle? Thank you all again
Right now we are using Card Droid Math. It is not very fancy, but they like it. I like the fact that I can change the problem sets to match what they are learning.
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