Name: Spreading the Feast Gathering
Start: 2025-07-11T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-07-12T23:59:59-05:00
Location: LaGrange, KY

Tagged: Christian Light, Christian Light Education math, CLE math, CLE Sunrise, Mastery vs Spiral, math, Math Lessons for a Living Education, Rod & Staff Math, RS Math

This topic has 18 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 7 months ago by BlessedMommy.

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June 16, 2014 at 7:06 pm
jenhorsfall
Participant
I am trying to decide whether to purchase R&S math or CLE math for my second grade son. I have only used MUS Alpha and he complains every time I get it out. I have narrowed it down to these two brands. How can I figure out what type of learning is best? R&S is mastery based and CLE is spiral. Ds is a very active child. I do not want to use MUS anymore though and I have spent a lot of time researching Horizons, Right Start, Saxon, ACE, etc. which I just dont think are for our family. I want a program that we can stick with through highschool if needed.
June 16, 2014 at 7:40 pm
Angelina
Participant
I’ve used CLE for my kids from early years through to grade two level. After this we switch to Teaching Textbooks. We are extremely happy with CLE for the early years. Conceptual understanding has been easily accomplished. Lesson length is just right, every day includes speed drill for math facts – either on paper or via flashcards or both. Word problems and mental math start almost immediately in grade 1. The story problems are terrific, sometimes 2-part problems, sometimes purposely “wordy”, requiring the child to really listen and really work to figure out what figures or computation is required. I was thrilled that this task (word problems) was present in the grade 1! Hands-on activities using manipulatives found easily in your home are integrated within the lessons as required, i.e. coins, toothpicks, marbles, square blocks. The TM guides you on how to order the flashcards so that the child is getting constant variety and testing of the facts. We love that the student booklets are in short units. The child moves into a new booklet about every month or so, and it makes the child feel a great sense of accomplishment – “I’m in a whole new book already!”
I can’t speak at all to high school levels. I knew I wanted Teaching Textbooks for the bulk of our homeschooling because of lectures being included for every lesson and the fact that the TT includes grading and even tutorials for each every single problem. This was too juicy to pass up, for me anyway! But if I had not found and loved TT to this extent, I very likely would have kept on with CLE.
June 16, 2014 at 7:58 pm
retrofam
Participant
I like mastery better than spiral. My oldest did not do well with spiral(Saxon). He used Math U See through highschool. In my experience, with two reluctant boys so far, it is rare to find the boy who loves a curriculum so much that they want to use it 2nd-12th grades. By highschool many want a change.
My current plans are Mastering Mathematics and Dr. Wright’s Kitchen Table Math for elementary and Math U See for pre algebra through highschool.
My 2nd son took a break from MUS(used Life of Fred for two years) and is going back to MUS. My 3rd son uses Life of Fred.
I like that R&S and CLE are Christian, but I have a hard time teaching from classroom curriculum.
Hth,
C
June 16, 2014 at 9:12 pm
jenhorsfall
Participant
So they are both written to a classroom? That may change everything for me. That was the main reason why I changed from BJU curriculum. I got tired of filtering out the classroom teching to suit my homeschool needs.
June 16, 2014 at 9:16 pm
Angelina
Participant
That’s an interesting point from retrofam on “classroom curriculum” versus those designed specifically for homeschool. I’ve not previously given a whole lot of thought to this, but now I’m actually seeing a benefit! In the case of CLE, it’s actually really handy because in each lesson you have a clear way of knowing exactly what your child can and should do independently versus guided. I actually really like this as I’ve found it gives me permission to say, “ok buddy, you’re on your now” and to know with confidence that he CAN do it. Yes, there are other things that I need to weed out a bit, but overall I have not been put off by the classroom stuff and in fact, most of it I have been able to incorporate and even have fun with.
June 16, 2014 at 9:41 pm
Wings2fly
Participant
We had tried Saxon and it was not for us, but we do like RightStart, Life of Fred, and have recently used some CLE Light Units. I have the teachers guide, but I have not found much use for it. All of the new lessons are right there in the students’ light units. They can read it themselves. You can go over it together. If it shows pictures of money or pencils, you can get those physical items to demonstrate. I think one thing I hated about Saxon was how scripted it is and to me they seemed to jump around. I have heard some who like CLE did not like Saxon, even though they are both spiral. They are still different enough from each other. As far as being written for a classroom vs. homeschool, we have not noticed anything bothersome. Saxon is secular. I appreciate the little Christian and Bible themes in each light unit of CLE. We had tried MUS, a mastery program, but have not tried R & S. My son had a hard time understanding the MUS blocks. He understands the AL abacus from RightStart, and so he uses it with CLE. He needs the “we remember” review problems. Because even though he can understand the math in a lesson, he needs the practice to keep up retention.
June 16, 2014 at 10:00 pm
retrofam
Participant
Thanks for the descriptions of CLE. I didn’t know that it can be used without the teachers manual, except for the answers. I will keep CLE on my backup list:) I am learning that if I add games and manipulatives many different programs would work as a spine. I tend to get bored with math after many years for many kids, so I like to have other options.
June 16, 2014 at 10:15 pm
Wings2fly
Participant
I should add that we are using levels 200 and 300 in CLE, as a supplement. I do not plan for them to do all 10 light units. It is more for the practice since we were not getting the games played in RightStart. But I like that they thoroughly teach measurements in both standard and metric and drill geometry. In upper levels of CLE, the teachers guide may be needed more. There are several pages per light unit you can print free as sample pdf’s from the CLE website. You can also see the pdf free scope and sequence to try to place him in the right place, being careful to go easier rather than too difficult, to build up confidence rather than to frustrate. Also, I have heard their placement is more advanced than other math. Do not be shocked if he looks to be 1 or 2 grades behind in their curriculum compared to other programs or his actual grade level.
This post is what got me interested in CLE: http://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/questions-about-cle-sunrise
June 16, 2014 at 10:37 pm
Wings2fly
Participant
Also, this is a helpful post on CLE and if teacher’s guide is needed.
http://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/christian-light-education-math
You can have them do less review problems if they are too much. If you want to move through a light unit quicker, skip the two quizzes. You could also do 2 New lesson sections and only one we remember review section in one day, if you find the student is able to keep up with that pace. CLE also has a Yahoo group, but it is not just math.
June 16, 2014 at 11:45 pm
kerby
Participant
Basic differences are of course, mastery vs spiral, and textbook (after gr 2) vs. worktexts. Both go through gr 8, although Alg 1 should be available by the time you need them. Both have them in the works but not ready now.
While both are “classroom” materials, they are primarily used in one-room schoolhouse settings. So, they still work very well for us as hsers.
After 8th (or 9th – Alg), you would still have to switch to another math for HS. I would switch before Alg, just to keep it all the same company. I use R+S and switch to MUS or VT for HS.

I have tried many, many maths and we all keep coming back to R+S. They all basically ASKED to go back to R+S. One after trying BJU 6 – didn’t even get through the first chapter; the 2 youngers just this past week – after starting MUS at Gamma.
The benefits I’ve found using R+S is that it’s very easy to skip the sections they know well. Because it’s mastery, it’s easy to know which ones to choose. Also, I’ve had them do just half the problems in a lesson, which can be plenty. This also gives extra practice for those sections/dc who need more practice. There is built-in review in each lesson, another plus for us. Another benefit w/ R+S is that the texts are written right to the dc from gr 4 up. But, even w/ gr 1 – 3, I’ve been able to tell them what to do w/out needing the TM, even my dc were able to know what to do most of the time.
As for the TM, I primarily use it for an AK. I “get” math so it’s easy to teach. If I need to, I can read over their lesson and teach from that just fine. But, if I need it, I can use the TM for some other ideas to help w/ understanding, along w/ some extra practice when needed. And, it’s not overly expensive, especially the few consumables. I have a friend who struggles w/ math and found R+S easy to use w/ her dc. It gave her the hand-holding she needed when she needed it. It gave her the confidence to teach math.
It can get boring at times, but what can’t. There’s not a lot of variation, especially at first while they’re learning their math facts (lots of practice). They do include money, time, shapes, basic fractions, etc at the same time, so that’s a help. At the same time, this repetition has helped solidify the facts for my dc. My dd knew them inside-out when she was done w/ the gr 3. She’s lost a few since then, but I know by working through it again, she will regain it quickly. My ds fought me to finish gr 2 and was excited to start MUS, but even he asked to go back to R+S, and has since sat up and finished the lessons in record time. He knows his add/sub facts lickety-split. Another plus to the mastery is it will be easy to add in games and other fun things that will practice what you’ve learned. (Not that you can’t w/ a spiral approach.)
I’ve been very pleased w/ R+S and I know lots of people who feel the same way about CLE. Both are solid and reputable. You can’t go wrong either way.
I guess the question to ask yourself is why isn’t MUS working well. If he’s like my son, though, it won’t matter what you choose. He’s going to want to be jumping around and avoiding anything sit-down like the plague – even choosing chores over schoolwork. LOL If it’s any consolation, my ds will be 11 this summer and he’s finally “getting it” about sitting up and doing his work. He’s done very well w/ that this past week. Little trouble today, but it’s been crazy in a new way as we adjust to summer and different things happening, particularly w/ the older boys.
Sorry, this ended up longer than I thought.
HTH,
K

June 17, 2014 at 12:13 am
jenhorsfall
Participant
” …I’m actually seeing a benefit! In the case of CLE, it’s actually really handy because in each lesson you have a clear way of knowing exactly what your child can and should do independently versus guided. I actually really like this as I’ve found it gives me permission to say, “ok buddy, you’re on your now” and to know with confidence that he CAN do it.”
Angelina this is an excellent point. Something to think about.
“While both are “classroom” materials, they are primarily used in one-room schoolhouse settings. So, they still work very well for us as hsers.
After 8th (or 9th – Alg), you would still have to switch to another math for HS. I would switch before Alg, just to keep it all the same company. I use R+S and switch to MUS or VT for HS.”
Kerby, this helps. Thank you. One room school houses are definitely different than ps classrooms. As for switching curriculum, I am holding on to our MUS Algebra and MUS Geometry for the future just in case. (What is “VT”?)
“I guess the question to ask yourself is why isn’t MUS working well.”
I think that the pages are just down right boring. No pictures unless they are of the manipulative blocks. No variation day to day. That’s why I’m considering R&S. From what I can see, they have pictures that dont seem that they would overstimulate like Horizons. Memoria Press uses R&S in their curriculum bundle, so I’m thinking that it must be good .
“The benefits I’ve found using R+S is that it’s very easy to skip the sections they know well. Because it’s mastery, it’s easy to know which ones to choose. Also, I’ve had them do just half the problems in a lesson, which can be plenty. This also gives extra practice for those sections/dc who need more practice. There is built-in review in each lesson, another plus for us. Another benefit w/ R+S is that the texts are written right to the dc from gr 4 up. But, even w/ gr 1 – 3, I’ve been able to tell them what to do w/out needing the TM, even my dc were able to know what to do most of the time.”
I think that I WANT to use a mastery program due to the reasons you mention here. I need a bit of hand holding. I was not a good math student in grade school because I came down with a terrible case of the chicken-pox and never got the help I needed to grasp some mathematical concepts I missed while I was out of school during that time. That’s the reason why I moved to MUS, but ugh..even I’m bored with it. I’ve even been thinking about Ray’s Arithmetic because its free on Kindle and seems easy to teach. But I really dont want to reinvent the wheel either. I hope that makes sense.
June 17, 2014 at 12:53 am
retrofam
Participant
I liked Ray’s for introducing new concepts, but I needed more structure to make it the full curriculum we needed. I tired of finding new games often too. Dr. Wright’s is my games/activities. Mastering Mathematics comes with games too.
Cindy West suggests using math curriculum three days a week and living math(games, activities, real life math) the other two days. She says to skip the beginning of textbooks because they are review anyway.
June 17, 2014 at 2:20 am
jenhorsfall
Participant
Has anyone used/checked-out Queen Homeschool Math? Curious. Yes, I need structure or I fall apart, LOL!
June 17, 2014 at 3:20 am
Kristen
Participant
I started out with MCP math then went to CLE for two years. I explained the mastery and spiral approaches to my daughter then in 4th grade and she thought she would like spiral. So we went with CLE. I liked it and I wish I would have read Wings2fly response above two years ago about skipping the quizzes and such because while I did cross a lot of problems off their assignments it still took forever. I liked how it taught a small new concept every time and it helped me teach it as I would see it and go “oh yeah, now I remember how to do this”. But it was taking up to much of my time in the afternoon with corrections sowe just switched to Teaching Textbooks. But I did really like CLE.
June 17, 2014 at 11:26 am
Angelina
Participant
Wings2fly had said,
“I like that they thoroughly teach measurements in both standard and metric and drill geometry.”

Just wanted to agree with this, and to mention also, for any Canadians reading this: In addition to measurement in metric, CLE also teaches money and does all the money counting drills in Canadian currency (as long as you select the “Canadian” edition those years…it’s available from 100s to 300s, I think…)