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spanking?

Tagged: discipline, spanking, toddler

This topic has 45 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by WaleOfaTale.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 46 total)

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July 28, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Rebekahy
Participant
One of the things that I find “amusing” is that after reading this thread, I was thinking about how much I HATED being put in the corner as a child – I distinctly remember many occassions of being put in the corner and the horrible, hateful, rebellious thoughts that I nurtured while spending time in the corner or my room, whereas I don’t think I can remember one specific incidence of being spanked though I know I WAS spanked.
My vivid memories of time spent in the corner are what lead me to the website http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com and these memories are what made her ideas ring true with me. Even if you don’t agree with spanking, you’ll find gentle methods of correction, since she gives clear guidance on how to obtain joyful, immediate obedience even WITHOUT spanking.

July 28, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Bookworm
Participant
Sanveann,
I must gently point out that it takes someone awfully big to judge other people and whether they are Christian or not. I would really hesitate to make that judgment about someone I did not know personally, especially for ONE thing that you do not agree with. Again, I have no problem with disagreeing with a method used, but to paint an entire family as evil and wicked because they interpret the Bible differently than you do is very, well, medieval. I personally do not spank, it may surprise you to know, and I personally interpret a few of the verses commonly used to justify spanking differently than most. But I can still love and respect the people that do not agree with me. I do not use the all the Pearls’ training methods with young children. But I still think they have a lot of tremendous value to say. I just finished reading their book, Jumping Ship, and their Christian vision of what teens are and who they can become, and how we their parents can help them to get there, is a beautiful thing. Their very strong emphasis on playing with and working WITH their children is something that I and many others need to hear. I’ve read most of their books and many, many articles; there are things I valued and things I decided were not right for my understanding.
I’m a little older than you. That doesn’t make me automatically smarter by any means, but it does mean that I’ve come to learn a few things. One of those things is that while there is only one real path to salvation, a lot of the trappings on the side differ enormously from family to family–and I’ve learned that my wisdom is not great enough to decide who should get into Heaven. I personally believe we are going to see spankers and nonspankers, women who wear only dresses and those of us in jeans, folks who grow their own food and those who think peppers come wrapped in plastic, folks who homeschool and those who just couldn’t see their way to do it. I’ve also learned that *I* as a Christian feel much closer to the Lord when I am listening to and loving others, even when I disagree with them, than I do when I am insulting and belittling them. Wouldn’t it be awful if some of us decided you were not a good Christian because you *don’t* spank, and then paid for websites to tell the whole world about it? I don’t think the good women here would do that, and I’m glad–it’s why I love them. That wouldn’t seem very Christlike to me. I can’t see much in the scriptures to support persecuting people for spanking their children, however anyone takes the “rod” verses.
Michelle D
July 28, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Sanveann
Member
Michelle, I generally try not to judge others, and as I said in a previous post, I do not believe spanking is abusive. I know several moms — who I consider very good moms — who spank their kids. My own mom spanked me.
But the Pearls go beyond any kind of spanking I’ve ever seen or experienced, and furthermore, they also tell people that they’re cowards, theologically flawed and disobeying God if they don’t spank: http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/1999/july/01/rodless-training/ — that strikes me as mighty judgmental.
At any rate, as I pointed out, this discussino belongs elsewhere. But I clearly feel very strongly about this issue, and if anyone cares, I wrote a blog post awhile ago about “To Train Up a Child” (which I read after a co-worker challenged me to read it): http://sleepless-in-suburbia.blogspot.com/2010/04/to-train-up-child-over-my-dead-body.html
July 29, 2010 at 12:04 am
Sara B.
Participant
Rebekahy:
“One of the things that I find “amusing” is that after reading this thread, I was thinking about how much I HATED being put in the corner as a child – I distinctly remember many occassions of being put in the corner and the horrible, hateful, rebellious thoughts that I nurtured while spending time in the corner or my room, whereas I don’t think I can remember one specific incidence of being spanked though I know I WAS spanked.
My vivid memories of time spent in the corner are what lead me to the website http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com and these memories are what made her ideas ring true with me. Even if you don’t agree with spanking, you’ll find gentle methods of correction, since she gives clear guidance on how to obtain joyful, immediate obedience even WITHOUT spanking.”

ITA with you. I hated being put in the corner, something my babysitter did often. Hated it, hated it, hated it. I remember being in the corner quite often. Whereas, the only 2 spankings I remember through my life were when I felt they were unjust. In fact, the only punishments I really remember were the unjust ones. That is quite interesting, especially as I reconsider some disciplinary actions for my own children… Thank you for posting this. It has opened my eyes to something I really needed to see.
July 29, 2010 at 12:27 am
Rachel White
Participant
Sanveann,
It’s a shame that you would think that due to this one issue, you would abandon an entire forum; I hope you do not leave. None of us are going to be in agreement with each other on every subject and I think you may lose out as well as we would lose out on any future opportunities to share our experiences, share wisdom in the spirit of Titus 2 and give and receive encouragement.
I’ve been on this forum since the very beginning and I am very thankful that I didn’t jump ship based on one issue of a difference of opinion; and I have some strong opinions-just ask my friends and family! There are so many issuees life throws at me in our family’s HS’ling walk and hearing other’s differing opinions is healthy for me; whether I choose to adjust mine or not. It gives me something to think about and G-d has amazing ways of using others differing opinions and those things that make us uncomfortable to grow us up. One of the things I appreciate here is the vulnerability exhibited and that we’re grown ups and don’t have to fake it and we can handle a little adult discussion that can be intense on both sides at times-none of us would even be HS’ling if we were weak in the area of conviction! We’re like salmon swimming upstream and have the constitutions to show it! So I think it is a side effect of our passion that makes us choose this path to begin with and these types of disagreements are going to happen; but like I said, I’ve always appreciated the forthrightness and the freedom in conversation that comes with that.
I disagree about the location of this discussion that it should belong elsewhere; discipline and ways of implementing is a part of our lives, just like lifeskills and math. This is a perfect place for us to come, after our husband, Rabbi, Priest or Pastor and personal convictions.
As per the original topic requesting advice, Ginger Plowman’s books, definitely John Rosemond’s books (specifically for your age child “Making the Terrible Two’s Terrific”, the ages between 15 mths and 36 mths.), the above mentioned “Hints on Child Training”, the books Shepherding and Instructing a Child’s Heart by Ted Tripp, The Bringing Up Boys (and now …Girl’s I will get) and Raising G-dly Tomatoes (haven’t read, but looked at site). When they are a tad older, “Boundaries With Kids”. The Rosemond book I mentioned, the Plowman book I read(“Don’t Make me Count to Three”) and the Tripp books go into a lot of explanation on the proper method of spanking. They were most valuable. Do all children need it? NO. Do some need it? Yes. Do some 26 mth. olds need it? IMO, yes. Does it sometimes not work properly because it’s used wrongly? Yes on that, too.
A 2+ yr. old is old enough to understand rules that you have set down and can make a conscious decision to disobey. BTW, I also took my children out of the cart and snapped them into the car seat, with the window cracked and door shut; they could see me, but I wouldn’t look at them. That worked very well when out. Rosemond goes into more ideas and details (as well as developmental stuff) regarding that, plus spanking, removing toys, when the corner is effective and when not and how to use it so the parent is in control of the situation and not the child, creative options, etc.http://www.rosemond.com/Book-Purchase-Guide.html What I especially appreciate in his books is his affirmation of the Parent, not creating a child-centered home- which is the modern way, but encouraging the parent that they have what it takes; building the parent up, not just giving advice so you will become more confident. That G-d gave you the ability to do this; and always, as James says in 1:5-6 Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives to all generously and without criticizing, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind.
Blessings,
Rachel
July 29, 2010 at 12:47 am
quietwatersmommy
Member
Just wanted to add to Sara B’s post about the Doorposts If Then Chart…they are offering it free with any purchase until July 31.
They also have a nice Blessing Chart that is a nice counterpart to the If Then Chart to remind everyone to focus on the positives as well.
We used to do something similar to this Blessing Chart that I called “Caught Being Good” and I would spontaneously reward my children for acts of kindness. Sometimes we as moms get so caught up in looking at the disobedience (I know I do) that I often forget to reward the good behavior, which is a very positive motivator, and I’m sure something Charlotte would have smiled upon

Nanci
July 29, 2010 at 1:37 am
2flowerboys
Participant
Just wanted to say I agree with Michelle. And also to say that we did a study this past school year on The Lord is my Shepherd. The shepherd had TWO tools, rod and staff. The rod was used to keep predators away…more like a club. And the staff was to guide and save the sheep. So IMO, we need to use both methods. Not clubbing !!! of course, but spanking for disobedience. And not used in all cases.
Jesus didn’t beat anyone but he did get mad at the temple and overturned tables etc… He was angry with the SIN that was going on in the temple.
I have a friend who has used the Pearls’ books. They are a very loving Christian homeschooling family. They have wonderful kids. And they started when they were young. I observed one day…and it was just a smack of the hand with a wooden spoon. Not hard at all, but got the point across. I was amazed at how well it worked. They were consistent and did it with a merry heart. I read some of the book…but it was when mine were older…and I was just to lazy to implement some of the things. Just wanted to say my friends love the Lord and their children. And they have happy obedient kids.
Spanking can be used sometimes too much but so can time-outs that sometimes don’t do any good either. One must have a calm attitude when administering punishment. Sometimes hard to do 🙂 We spank …but it is not the first form of punishment in our home.
I agree that spankings are generally not remembered but other types are. Sometimes my boys will asked to be spanked instead of …another punishment….and they don’t like spankings!! So, I know there are some things deemed worse to them!!
This is a wonderful forum. And many wonderful, caring, loving moms here. It has really been something special for me to come to daily. And the only one I visit!!
July 29, 2010 at 2:01 am
LindseyD
Participant
Rachel,
I want to thank you for your last post. Well said.
I’d also like to add that I’ve changed many things about our homeschool, our discipline, our habits, and my own personal life because of the wisdom I’ve received from this forum. Have I agreed with everything? Certainly not. But I respect each one of your opinions because, really, we’re all in the same boat. If we can’t respectfully disagree, then it’s impossible for us to work together. There have been things that I didn’t agree with at first, but later God changed my heart about them because God showed me that I was wrong in those areas. And that heart change wouldn’t have occurred if not for some of you ladies.
Just as we discipline our children in love, I believe it is important and vital that we remember to always share our answers, advice, and opinions in an attitude of humility, love, and graciousness. We were all, at one point or another, new to this experience–which is why we ask for advice in the first place! And if all of us had it all figured out, there would be no use for this sharing place…and how sad that would be!
Whether you’re new to this forum or an old veteran, let us all try to post only words which are uplifting, exhorting, and encouraging.
Lindsey
July 29, 2010 at 3:10 am
merri_ann
Member
This has been great to read. It has caused me to reflect on my own experiences over the last 13 years. What a journey it has been. I’m expecting my sixth child any day and I am still learning!! I have been on both ends of the spectrum with regards to spanking. In the beginning I was a new believer and eager to get any instruction that came my way. I think first it was the Pearls and then Tripp and then Ezzo sp? The list goes on. To borrow a term used in a previous post I put together a “tool box”.
My first three a boy and then 2 girls were easy to train in comparison to the last 2 boys who are 20 months apart. With the first three I thought I was on top of my game. They never shot out into the road and or if they did it happened once. With a little training with and with out spanking produced well behaved obedient children. I thought I knew a lot and some of my friends just needed to do it my way.
With #4&5 I realized I needed everything in my “tool box” and I realized most importantly I need the Holy Spirit. If I only had one way of fulfilling my responsibilities as a parent I think I would fail. The Holy Spirit tells me what to do and how to do it. I am learning to ask and keep asking. I am learning to depend on Him more and more.
July 29, 2010 at 3:26 am
Sanveann
Member
Rachel, you’re right … I was definitely too hasty in assuming that I shouldn’t be here based on this one issue, and I didn’t mean to post a “goodbye cruel forum” type of post or anything.
A lot of the Pearl/Ezzo/Godly Tomatoes way of discipline is totally foreign to me. When I first heard of and read their books, I found them quite harsh — least in the written form (I do understand that a lot of families don’t use the methods as strictly as they come across in the books.) So when I saw so many people recommending them here, I was quite taken aback. As I mentioned before, I’m Catholic, and those books/methods are almost unknown in Catholic circles (at least in my area), and the theology they’re based on is also generally quite incompatible with Catholicism. So seeing so many people recommend them made me think I’d stumbled into a particular “brand’ of CM forum that maybe wasn’t for me.
Furthermore, I’d like to apologize for jumping into the forum on such a controversial topic! My boys are little, and we don’t do any formal HSing, so I didn’t have a lot to add on many other topics … but boy do I have something to say on this one, apparently! 😉
July 29, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Sonya Shafer
Moderator
One point I would like to share that is close to my heart, ladies. Discipline involves much more than just correction. Discipline is like an umbrella that over-archs several facets. Under the discipline umbrella we find three tools: teaching, training, and correcting. Our jobs are a lot easier if we use all three tools. How we choose to teach, train, and correct is between us, our husbands, and the Lord. (By the way, I’m very encouraged by those posts that promote kindness and gracious respect for each other. Thank you!)
So as we discuss various methods of correction, please keep in mind that it is only one small piece of the discipline puzzle. (Oops, I just mixed my metaphors, didn’t I? Sorry. Maybe it should be “only one small spoke of the discipline umbrella”?)
July 31, 2010 at 3:12 pm
lovingmom
Member
It seems like many jumped on Savean by saying that it was wrong to judge. I don’t think she was being judgemental, she was merely stateing her opinion on the subject just like everyone else. Savean don’t leave we value your opinion and respect it. Maybe we all should just stop posting anymore on this thread since it is causing hostility. lol
July 31, 2010 at 7:10 pm
missingtheshire
Member
Well said lovingmom I could not agree more – spanking and all of the harsher forms of correction are always going to be contentious – I personally would never and have never spanked in 18 years which is the age of my girls and I would never put vinegar in my child’s mouth as I find that truly abhorrent – but if others think that is ok – I will leave that to them. Savean is entitiled to her opinions and I feel that those who do use these forms of correction, should perhaps not be so surprised when a few of us are shocked by it – I confess that I am shocked and have never found the need to do those things. When we do things that are different we must expect other opinions, and lively debate is a good thing. I like that this forum allows for differing opinions and ideas but we should all expect controversy when controversial subjects are aired. So Savean, I enjoy your posts as I enjoy many others, different opinions are what makes the world turn, so please don’t feel the need to leave. Those of you who use different corrective practises please don’t be offended by those of us who don’t agree – your family is your business and that is it. However when someone is asking advice on how to handle a child in the correction department, then I feel it is good to air both sides, those who do use punitive and those who do not – then the individual can make up their own minds.
July 31, 2010 at 8:30 pm
missceegee
Participant
**I have edited this post as I hit submit, before I intended and had not finished putting my thoughts together. **
Lovingmom and Missingthshire – I’ve appreciated posts by both of you in the past and this thread is no different. Of course, we all have differing opinions on raising children, that’s a given. It’s also a given, that it is good to present both sides of an issue. It’s simply that the SCM forum has always been a place to share our viewpoints, no matter how divergent, in a way that is not belittling or condemning to others and some of the posts that are against the “harsher forms of correction” did come across to me as condemning and judgmental.
I am not surprised that other families discipline differently that mine, nor am I bothered by it, but I am surprised to hear words like “boot camp”, “abhorrent”, and “horrifying” used on this forum to describe families like mine. I respect the decisions of other families to do as they see fit and to share what works for them here, as I’ve done. While I totally agree that everyone here should share what works or doesn’t work for them, I know that sometimes much can be lost on a forum like this without face to face interaction and even thick skinned individuals like myself can misconstrue a comment. I’m sure that’s the case here. I know that it’s with good intentions that everyone is sharing, but when I read some of the comments, I’ll admit, I found them hurtful.
This forum has been a tremendous blessing to me in so many ways. I trust that it will continue to be so as we share what we know, what we’ve learned, and what we still have to learn on this big adventure of parenting and homeschooling.
Blessings,
Christie
July 31, 2010 at 8:53 pm
missingtheshire
Member
Christie my intent was not to offend, but to give my opinion which is as I stated. You do not find it abhorrant and that is fine – I do, and that is fine as well – I said I find it that way, which is my personal view which I should be allowed to have – different strokes for different folks. You may not appreciate my choice of words, but it is how I feel and I did state that it is fine if others think differently. The CM forum is a place to share out viewpoints as you stated, and I stated my viewpoint. I am not judging you or anyone else, I am saying what I feel just as you have. I do not think I was discourteous, I am sad that you feel that. I am actually a person who feels that each individual family should do as they see fit, I am not telling you not to do something, I am purely saying what I think. As I said before, contentious issues are difficult but everyone has a right to be heard, even if you disagree with them. There are many ways to correct a child, I just chose a completely different path, and people should hear all sides. We do not need to be too thin skinned over such things, no malice or offense was intended, and just as you gave your opinion, I gave mine. I am leaving it at that.

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