Name: Spreading the Feast Gathering
Start: 2025-07-11T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-07-12T23:59:59-05:00
Location: LaGrange, KY

Tagged: discipline, spanking, toddler

This topic has 45 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by WaleOfaTale.

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June 4, 2010 at 2:35 pm
mryhrtsong
Member
I’ve recently read “Parenting From the Heights”, by Anne Wiggins and Linda Williams. Anne is a homeschooling mom and Linda a teacher for many, many years. Linda is Anne’s mother, and they are both pastors’ wives. I’ve also attended one of Linda’s “Parenting Toolbox” courses. This is great stuff. Spanking can at times be over-emphasized by well-intentioned, but overwhelmed, parents and can become ineffective. Parents can become angry and negative with their children, which, of course, doesn’t bring out the best in either of us. Mrs. Wiggins and Mrs. Williams focus on equipping parents with tools and parenting skills to help in training your children in love, and helping them practice what they’ve learned. They’ve helped us discover important truths about each child, what makes them tick, and by tuning in with how God made that child, we can help shape the best things in them and prune their habits and behaviors in a positive way. I should probably say that I belong to Linda Williams’ church. I find her wisdom and insights priceless.
June 4, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Nina
Participant
Where would you find this book?

Never mind. I found their website. 🙂
June 5, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Sara B.
Participant
I have 4 children. My oldest is 7, my youngest is 12 mths. I used to spank A LOT more than I do now. Simply because I’ve learned that if you use that punishment too often, it becomes completely ineffective. Now I threaten with a spanking only if I am at my limit and am having trouble keeping control of myself. But I rarely have to use it. Once in a while, if they’re outright disobeying and wound up, I will swat them on the rear very quickly to get their attention. It works. 🙂
Have you heard of the If-Then chart? http://www.doorposts.com/details.aspx?id=14  It has helped us stay consistent with the same discipline for the same offense. Funny, spankings are not on there at all, and we are both perfectly OK with using spankings as needed. We need to change up our discipline, though, because it’s not “natural” enough. The kids helped choose the disciplines, but we weren’t very creative, so most of them are a time-out. But at least it has helped with consistency, which was (and is) our biggest offense.

ETA: Oh, forgot to add, at 26 mths, the If-Then chart works WAY better than a spanking. They are not too young at that age to understand that certain things are wrong, and why. But from experience, they ARE too young to differentiate between a spanking and just plain hitting. My 12-mth-old knows that if I “swat” him on his hand ever so gently, it gets his attention and he knows something is wrong. He looks up at me, and I redirect him to something that is safe. I only use that if it’s dangerous or if he refuses to stay away after redirecting him a few times (stubborn boy… LOL).
June 5, 2010 at 10:24 pm
Kristen
Participant
Every one has so many different opions and you must use what ever works for you. One thing I will add though (and unfortunately this is from experience) don’t ever spank in public. I do spank my children occasionaly although the older ones don’t need it anymore (4 and up), but I use the corner alot and they go there and stay there until I say they can come out. Sometimes we set the timer sometimes we don’t, it depends on the situation. I have found that there is a corner everywhere and you can find a corner in the grocery store if you have to and use it, or church or any place they are having a tantrum. It is a very effective tool for us. Good Luck and God’s Blessings in whatever you decided to do.
June 6, 2010 at 6:31 am
dmccall3
Participant
Oh my word Sara B! Thank you SO much! I just purchased the if/then chart and the blessing chart. That is a fantastic tool!! I can’t wait to start using it! This looks like a lifesaver for all of us!! 🙂

Thank you too Kristen! I’ve never thought to put a child in the corner in public but what an idea! We’re realizing now that we’ve chosen a bad “time out” spot for him because we use these steps in our house. There are 2 steps in the hallway leading to some bedrooms. It’s sort of “out of the way” so we began putting him on “the steps” and now we ask him if he needs to “go to his steps” (to calm down from a tantrum). But we’re moving and there won’t be steps in the new house – or grandparents’ house (we’ll be close to them now – for a while) so we’re going to have to change what we call his steps to get him out of it I suppose. Oops.

Thanks again!!
Dana
July 28, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Sanveann
Member
I don’t spank, but I’m not massively opposed to it … but I think 2 is much too young for a spanking. Children at that age often simply lack impulse control. If a toy is causing an issue, we put it away. If a child hits us, we walk away and refuse to play any more. If he misbehaves at the park, we leave.
Incidentally, please stay away from anything by No Greater Joy Ministries and the Pearls (Michael and Debi). You can learn a lot more here: http://whynottrainachild.com/
July 28, 2010 at 7:11 pm
Bookworm
Participant
This is one of those things that good, godly people can differ on. I don’t agree with everything the Pearls say, myself, but I also have major, major problems with the people who seem to think they are the devil. I think we should share what works for us, and perhaps NOT say things like “stay away from” any other Christian people trying their best. Just a thought. These good people have been witchhunted –that’s really what it is, a modern-day witch hunt, and I hate to see it. Why can’t we just say “Well, personally I don’t agree with that” or “well, that hasn’t worked for us, instead we . . . ” if we need to express disagreement.
Michelle D
July 28, 2010 at 7:30 pm
missceegee
Participant
Yes, I agree that good, godly people can differ on the issue of spanking.
However, when it comes to obedience (regardless of your training method) …
What about the child running towards the street? What happens when you say stop? My children who are trained to first time obedience will stop without question, children who are not so trained may suffer irreparable harm from their lack of impulse control or their desire to question.
As it pertains to a CM style of education, I’m reminded of Charlotte’s expectation of prompt, cheerful and lasting obedience. I quote, “Tardy, unwilling, occasional obedience is hardly worth the having.”
Personally, in our home, we will always expect obedience – all the way, right away & cheerfully. Of course, our kids will fall short of that mark at times, but it is our job to train them and any good training should have the end goal in sight.
Blessings,
Christie
July 28, 2010 at 8:12 pm
LindseyD
Participant
&quLike missceegee, our family must go straight to God’s Instruction Book–the Bible– to see what the Lord Himself says regarding spanking. A few Scriptures:
Proverbs 13:24, “He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.” This verse tells me that I am to discipline my child with an instrument of spanking. In our house, it’s a wooden spoon. I was abused with a belt as a child and will never use one on my children. This verse also tells me that discipline must be because I love my child, and I that I must discipline promptly.
Proverbs 22:15, “Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him.” Again, this verse has a few things to offer us. First of all, human beings are naturally foolish. Our foolishness is displayed very early in life, however, God instructs us that foolishness can be removed–by the rod of correction.
Proverbs 23:13, 14, “Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, And deliver his soul from hell.” These verses are pretty harsh in my opinion, but it is, nonetheless, God’s Word; so it must be able to teach us something. The command is for parents: Do not withhold correction from a child. To me, correction takes many forms: the corner, time-outs, taking away privileges, being sent from the dinner table, and spanking. This verse says “beat”, but again that is an English translation for a Hebrew word. The other two verses tell us that spanking must be done in love, so an actual “beating” would not be based out of love but anger. We must conclude that the word ot;beat” does not literally mean child abuse in this context. Verse 14 tells us that we can deliver our children’s souls by not withholding physical correction.
Finally, Hebrews 12:5, 6 says, “And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: ‘My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.'”
Because God loves us, he chastens us. If He did not love us, He would allow us to do as we pleased and be caught up in all kinds of sin and foolishness. As parents, we must chasten our children because we love them. Because these 3 words–chastening, rebuked, and scourges–were translated into English from the Greek, we must go back to the Greek.
The Greek word for “chastening” is paideia, which means “to instruct.” God instructs us because He loves us; we must likewise do so with our children.
The Greek word for “rebuked” is elegcho, which means “to verbally reprove.” The same principle applies.
Finally, the Greek word for “scourges” is mastigoo, which means “to flog” (a sensible physical discipline, not a beating). So, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, there is sufficient biblical evidence that tells us that not only is physical correction (spanking) okay in God’s eyes, but that it is required because we love our children.
The order of the 3 words in the passage out of Hebrews is interesting: we must instruct first, verbally reprove second, and scourge/spank last. Godly discipline begins with instruction. It is the same as saying: first you teach your children what is right and what is wrong. If the rules are violated, you give them a verbal warning. If the child fails to heed the warning, physical correction is needed.
I do not believe spanking is required for every case of disobedience. We must prayerfully choose when a spanking is necessary, because in our family, spanking is a big deal. We aren’t just doling out spankings without warrant.
I know each family is different, and each must choose how to discipline; however, it is strictly my opinion that if a family chooses to follow God’s Word in one aspect, that family must follow God’s Word in all aspects.
{I really enjoy apologetics…if you can’t tell. Sorry if this was too much!}
~Lindsey
July 28, 2010 at 8:23 pm
Sanveann
Member
Ahhh, the old “running into the street” question” 🙂 That always comes up in spanking discussions, doesn’t it?! My kids DON’T run toward the street, even though they’re only 18 months and 3 years, because I’ve always reinforced that they need to stay back from it unless they’re holding Mommy or Daddy’s hand. I can easily weed my front garden and have them play nearby and stay well away from the road. In less familiar situations, such as a parking lot or while we’re walking along a river, they hold my hands, or they listen to my directions to “stay very close to Mommy.”
To be honest, I can’t think of even one situation where I’ve had a kid try to dash into the street or run away in a parking lot. (And my boys are what might politely be called “high-spirited’!) But if it did, even kids as little as mine are absolutely capable of telling that my “stop right this second, Mister” tone is a lot different than my “please put your toys away now” voice.
I agree that cheerful, prompt obedience IS important. But I also think that when you’re talking about toddlers, those are very high expectations for people who can’t even use a toilet reliably (or at all!). In our home, we gently reinforce our directions to the kids if they aren’t followed. As they get older, we will expect them to be able to follow directions with less assistance. (The 3-year-old is actually quite good about listening, though he often needs reminders to be quieter or to be more gentle with his toys and his little brother.)
In addition, I don’t think spanking is the best way to GET cheerful, prompt obedience. (It might get you the -appearance- of cheerfulness, but I don’t want my kids to feel like they have to present a false face to me — or anyone — to be deemed acceptable.) I think that goal is best served by raising kids in a gentle, loving, joyful household and by letting them see their parents serve others cheerfully.
To be honest, I was surprised to see so many spankers on a CM forum. It has always struck me as such a gentle method that I assumed that most other CM fans would also be AP, as I am.
Michelle, I’m sure this is a topic but a different thread, but the description of Pearls as “good, godly” people is one I have to beg to differ with. They suggest using switches (small branches) on infants under a year old, which is enough to turn me off 100 percent from anything else they might have to say, no matter the topic.

July 28, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Sanveann
Member
Lindsey, the issue with the Proverbs verses is that the word “rod” in Hebrew is “shebet,” which is a shepherd’s staff — a symbol of authority. It’s NOT something you would ever hit a child with, especially not a toddler! This website goes into details: http://www.peaceandsafety.com/articles/34
Furthermore, I believe the Hebrews verse is obviously symbolic; God doesn’t reach down and literally BEAT us. However, it’s worth nothing that the word “scourge” doesn’t appear in every version of the Bible; many interpret it as “chastens” or “punishes.”
That said, I’m Catholic, so neither “sola scriptura” nor literal interpretations of the Bible are part of my faith 🙂
July 28, 2010 at 9:04 pm
lovingmom
Member
I agree with Sanvean. That verse “Spare the rod and spoil the child, ” is always used to justify spanking. Why does everyone naturally assume that the “rod” really means a rod? You have to interpret the bible. God wants us to discipline our child, there’s no doubt in that. Ask yourself this……….Did Jesus EVER beat or spank anyone??? NO. In fact it was he who was beaten and we of course know that it was very wrong. I love my children but I can think of numerous other ways to discipline them, without inflicting physical pain on them. Is it prodcutive? Possibly. They will probably walk the chalk line. I had an ex that used to hit me when he thought I did wrong and I straightened up real fast. But it wasn’t right. However, everybody has their own methods and I’m not going to judge. My hubby spanks but I can’t stand it. I was spanked and he was spanked and it didn’t traumatize me and it did make me behave. So, I do believe it can work but I just can’t bring myself to do it. Why is hitting with a belt or stick ok but if I were to pinch really hard or pull hair it would be wrong???? IDK it’s a complicated situation. Good luck whatever you decide.
July 28, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Sanveann
Member
Exactly. Why hit your kids when there are SO many other ways to help them learn?
I was spanked as a child, and always figured I’d spank my kids. Then (before they were born) I realized that I’d never hit my dog — so why on earth would it be OK to hit my kids? (Incidentally, my dog is very well-behaved!)
July 28, 2010 at 9:22 pm
missceegee
Participant
Saveann,
Your lack of having had a child try to do something like run off in a parking lot is more a testament to God’s grace than to any parenting method. Children will do foolish things as Lindsey mentioned and it’s not possible to prepare for or predict all of them. I have 4 kids and one thing I know is that ALL children will lack good judgement and disobey at times. Whatever you’ve chosen to do to train them is best done with loving consistency and petitioning the Lord for wisdom while realizing that training is a process not a finite event.
It’s obvious that you are anti-spanking which is completely fine. What I find troubling, is that your posts seem to
- equate spanking as a disciplinary tool with abuse
- assume anything other than AP style parenting is not as loving, gentle or well-intentioned as AP parenting
- indicate that children of those who believe differently than you are somehow presenting a false face of cheerfulness, as you put it
- indicate that spanking and gentle loving households are not one and the same
- assume that the gentle methods of a CM education might work best in non-spanking AP homes
It can be easy to misread someone’s intended meaning on a forum like this & perhaps I have misread some of your posts. If so, I apologize. We will just have to respectfully agree to disagree.
~ Christie
July 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Sanveann
Member
Christie, I don’t believe spanking is abusive. I DO believe it’s the same as hitting, because, well, it IS a type of hitting, just hitting restricted to a particular area. But I was spanked by my parents, and I don’t think that I was abused at all.
I DON’T believe spanking is “gentle.” Corporal punishment is, by definition, not gentle. I don’t believe a household that spanks can’t be a loving household … but I do believe that the discipline style practiced there can not be appropriately termed “gentle.” Whether or not CM methods work best in a spanking or non-spanking home, I have no idea — I just was surprised that so many CM adherents here do spank. I’d always felt the philosophy was one that more AP types would have found appealing.
In addition, I don’t think that all children in spanking homes are being dishonest in their cheerfulness … I was trying to say that I think that requiring cheerfulness can result in kids who fake it. I grew up in a family where having the “wrong” emotions was frowned on, so I am very wary of ever requiring my children to present a certain emotion if they don’t feel it. It took me a long, long time to get past my tendency to plaster a smile on my face no matter how stressed out or angry or sad I was.
As for my kids not running away … well, I am careful not to give them a lot of opportunities to disobey at their young ages. (Much like what Catholics call avoiding near occasions of sin — we avoid near occasions of disobedience!) I keep them close to me, I reprimand right away if they start wandering off, etc.
I am thinking that perhaps another CM board would be a better fit for me 🙂