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Should I just give up?
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I started trying to do oral narration with dd 14 in January. Her narrations were very a very basic outline of the events. I tried using a very short passage but that did not work either. She would say that not enough happened yet to give a narration and refuse to do one. I have also tried the narration starter ideas and she refused to try any of them. About a month ago she decides she would rather read to herself and do a written narration. I asked her if she would like me to give her a list of the different ways she could do a narration so she did not always have to do the same thing. She said “no”.
Here is an example of a written narration that I get from her.
I am David 1/2 of Chap 6
He walked for a few days and met a priest and went in a church and got a ride and found out about train stations.
Should I give up? Or will this develop over time. How do I gently encourage her to do better? I am soo frustrated. She will be in 9th grade in the fall. I was planning on using SCM for 9th grade now I am worried I need to do something else like Tapestry of Grace that has more things to do with the readings.
Hmm, what about taking that narration and using it for a writing lesson on adding detail and avoiding run-on sentences? Have her split the sentence in at least half and make each half the topic sentence for a whole paragraph. She’ll have to give you details. For example, here are my questions (I’ve not read the book):
– Who is “he”?
– Why was he walking, where was he walking?
– Where did he meet the priest, did he have a name, what did he look like?
– Where was this church? Who was there or why did “he” go in?
– What kind of ride did he get, from whom, and where was he (was he inside the church or back walking)?
– Who told him about the train stations, or did he go to one and find out what they are like himself?
I would try doing this with one narration each week, helping her learn to write more than one sentence by expanding upon the details. Good luck!
I just realized I posted one of her worst narrations. Sorry, I don’t think that was fair of me.
Here is a slightly better and more common example.
I Am David Chapt 3
David decides he needs to earn money to get a lift. He helps some people get gas and they give him much money. He finally gets enough courage to waive down a truck and he gets a ride.
I wouldn’t give up! If she writes well on her essays, it really seems this is something she’s choosing not to do, and that using a different history program might not help. You are the teacher, and you get to decide what she has to do, and her choosing not to complete it might mean that she won’t get to do something else she’d like to do – until the task is done with a fair amount of effort. Does she understand the requirements (ie, no less than 3 paragraphs or whatever you’ve chosen)? Has she seen an example of the type of narration you’re looking for? When my guys were confused, sometimes I’d make up an oral narration about something we’d been reading together, to give them an idea of what I wanted from them.
I may be off base, but I’m just remembering my experience with one particular girl who was a high performing student but liked to exercise control in this way, and I really needed to take a hard stand to get her to do what I felt was important. She’s 19 now and just last week thanked me for it after she was commended for her professionalism and writing skills at a job – she said it was my fault LOL and that it was all that dictation and writing I made her do! But oh the battles we had way back when!
My ds 14 has been frustrated lately with straight narration, so I recently printed out the SCM list of narration ideas. He got really excited about it, and brought me a poem he’d written as a narration for Moby Dick. Your daughter might not get as excited, but if you give her parameters (length, detail, etc) and tell her she must choose one of the ideas (maybe give her three to choose from), perhaps it could help?
She is very stubborn and most definitely exercising control in this situation. I tried telling her no TV until the assignment was done correctly and she didn’t watch TV for over a week. It took her that long to decide to do it correct.
When I only receive a two-sentence narration (or one long, run-on sentence!) that purports to cover the content of an entire chapter, I will sometimes choose one phrase, circle it, and write “tell me more about this” next to it. She knows to expect the paper back with comments like that, and I tell her when to finish it. Usually, I’ll get it back with one or two more sentences.
I insist that the added information be written in complete sentences and that it not use pronouns in the subject. Using your sample, “He finally gets enough courage to waive down a truck and he gets a ride,” I would maybe circle “he gets a ride” and ask for more details on that. If she gave the paper back to me with a sentence or two that accurately conveys who gave him a ride, where they were going, or where he ended up, I might consider that enough and just tell her, “Good job! I’d like to see more details like that each time.” I would not accept a short, disjointed addition such as, “They took him farther south” unless that’s about all there is left to say about the chapter.
If you think that she simply finds narration boring or doesn’t think it is necessary (as my daughter has often said, lol!), then you need to let her know your expectations for written narration, tell her that this is your chosen way to determine what she has gotten out of her reading, and then take the original narration plus the additions and have her rewrite it into a clear, concise paragraph or two. After awhile, she’ll probably get tired of all of the rewrites and will start including more details in the first attempt.
I was reading a good book on the CM method the other day. The author made a good point of encouraging a student with the reminder of a previous success.
For example (mine, not the book’s): Remember the other day when you told me about the game you played at your friends pool party? You did an excellent job of telling me Who, What, Where, Why, and How. That is what I want you to do in this lesson. I know you can do it, because you have already proved that you can do so.
This approach, balanced with missing out on a desired activity if the requested one isn’t completed appropriately in a reasonable amount of time has apparently worked well for some students.
Good ideas, Sue. I can’t say that my dc balk at giving narrations but this is very helpful when transitioning from oral to written.
I do give my dc choices but it is not a choice to narrate. It is a part of their education, they know that and I don’t expect anything less.
To the OP: hopefully your dd will get on board soon.
I have only taught my six year old to narrate, so I don’t have experience with an older student, but I wonder if she needs more guidance to help her understand narration. Here are some things I thought about. (Ignore any that you have already tried.)
She is old enough for you to have a discussion about the purpose of narration. When we tell or teach someone else something, we learn it ourselves. Make sure she knows that it is not a test, but is the lesson. Narration is how she will learn the material most effectively. You are not asking for a summary. You are asking her to RETELL the passage, in as much detail as she can remember. This will enable her to internalize it.
Then, maybe give her some very simple examples of what the difference is between what she has been doing and what you are looking for. Start with a story she knows. For example, here is a narration that doesn’t give enough details. “Once there was a girl who had to work very hard, then she went to a party and tried on a shoe and then was very happy.” Can she recognize the story?
Now try “Once there was a girl who lived with her stepmother and two stepsisters, because her own parents had passed away. The stepmother made her work very hard. The girl wore torn clothes and had so much soot and ashes in her hair that her stepsisters started calling her ‘Cinderella’.” and so on. Talk about the difference.
Perhaps have your daughter practice narrating simple stories or tales that she already knows, pretending she is telling a younger child (or actually telling a younger child if you have one!) Then work up to new material that she reads and narrates, but make it very easy content. Fairy tales would be great for this. The Blue Fairy Book probably has at least a few that she has never heard. http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=lang&book=blue&story=_contents Ask her to retell the story to make it as interesting as possible for the child (real or imaginary) who is listening. As her skill grows, then go back to narrating her school books. Even if you take a few weeks off of reading the books you would normally assign, just to teach narration, the benefits will be great.
I found when my DD was starting to narrate that it helped if I took a turn narrating, so that she could hear plenty of examples of what I expected. Once you move back to narrating her school books at her level, you could do a chapter every so often. It would help her understand, and might also help you discover any challenges in the process that you can help her work through. Narration isn’t easy! It really makes you think.
Anyway, as I said, my DD is young so I’m not an expert, but maybe that will get you thinking about some ideas that will help.
Joanne
I took Tristan’s advice and had her revise her narration today. I wrote the questions for her to try to answer in her rewritten narrations. She said she could not do it. For the first question of who is he she said “a dude”. I told her that I would read it and write a narration as an example. She said that she would not take mine as an example, because I am not perfect. Can I just scream!!!!
Hmmm….so this is deeper than the mechanics of narration or the benefits of it. Not that you asked for it, but we will pray for you as you iron this out with your dd.
Yes, Please pray. I believe this has become a battle of the wills. I wrote the narration and told her to read it. I explained that this was my first time doing this and it was not perfect, but should give her a good idea on the details. She said she would not read mine. She would take someone else’s as an example but not mine. (This really would not matter) I told her that I asked her to read it and she needs to do that, she then refused again and I took her iPod away and told her she could have it back once she has read what I asked her to. She said she still would not read it.
I am really sorry you are going through this. This is definitely a battle of wills, and unfortunately it sounds like it is a pretty big one. It is something I’ve experienced, but have no real advice… just know that I’ve been there big time. At this moment it sounds like she isn’t respecting your abilities as a teacher, or your authority. Hang in there.
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