60-day returns • free shipping on USA orders $129+
should a Charlotte Mason homeschool be completely unplugged?
- This topic has 24 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hello!
I’m intrigued by both Math U See and Rosetta Stone. However, my ideal(ized) homeschool would be entirely unplugged. For many reasons, I want to teach my children to look for information in books rather than on the computer (in particular, because of the ease of coming up with garbage on YouTube or in a Google search). I am in the midst of reading Amusing Ourselves to Death and am being reminded of the many negative effects of using editable images as a primary source for communication (as is the case with so many computer applications — very notably with Rosetta Stone).
If I were to use Math U See, I would intend to use the DVDs for my own preparation. However, I suspect that, long-term, the temptation to let my children watch the tutorials themselves, to do their work independently, would be great indeed. I also want to avoid, wherever possible, any hypocrisy in my personal computer use if I am intending to have my children completely unplugged. Does it make sense that I can learn a lesson from a DVD, but that my children should not?
My intention for foreign language training is to begin a formal program in grade 5. At that age, is the Rosetta Stone program valuable enough to compensate for its ‘flashiness’?
At some point, obviously, my children will need to learn how to use computers. I want that to be something we learn together as a formal topic — so that we can teach them moderation and care. At this point, they know of it as a tool for communication (the thing Mommy uses for email) and of organization (where we store our music, photos, addresses and home videos). I guess I am struggling with when/how to introduce them to the idea of the computer as a source of information.
Thank you for any thoughts/suggestions you are able to share!
Hi, well we have always been a bit against the norm in our lives, and we did not have tv or computer or any electronics until our children were much older in their teens. They were young adults before they got an ipod, we did not watch tv when they were little, though we did listen to music and go to the theater and to art galleries. They started using the computer in high school, learned how very fast, but only used it for school work and for learning the programs, and as they got older, they were allowed an hour each evening. They do not like social media and are very responsible online now that they are young women…we always have encouraged them to learn how to use the programs, everything windows has to offer, and we have various photoshop software and movie making software that they taught themselves to use. They are computer literate and type well, so delaying access and limiting them did not cause them to be behind. They still do not watch much tv unless there is a documentary they are interested in, and we do watch movies but only up to PG13 and not many of them – we always focused more on physical games to play and crafting and reading, rather than online things..and they have turned out just fine. I think staying unplugged is great for as long as you can. I would have perhaps made the exception for MUS because it is a brilliant math program and I would not have had any qualms about them watching the DVDs for that. They also started Rosetta Stone in High School, we did book German in the early years and then switched to RS much later…after also trying Tell Me More online course – RS worked better for my very visual learner, but both FL courses are excellent. I don’t believe in rushing kids into anything, and certainly not into the electronic age…it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle once he is out…..I also think that for us avoiding the TV and computer for so long made them much better readers and made them fill their time with really good things, games, crafts, listening to music etc. Hope that helps a bit….Linda
IMO, NO, a Charlotte Mason homeschool SHOULD not be completely unplugged. Should YOUR personal CM homeschool be completely unplugged? That is YOUR call and no one else’s. I respect your concerns and share some of them. But to me, keeping my sons unplugged would be sending them out into the world crippled, just as if I had broken one of their legs. This world is digital. No matter what my sons end up doing, computer fluency is going to be CRITICAL and not a special case or an add-on. Real fluency is something that happens over the long-term. Witness the incredible digital facility of the average 12yo as compared to the average 60yo. My mom needs my son to come over and download books on her e-reader for her for a reason. He grew up in it, she didn’t. I cannot imagine schooling without the computer or DVD’s. We use them daily, sometimes hourly. And may I say that we read very, very well, very often, and very widely. I simply cannot see how watching Steve Demme teach other students math concepts is going to damage my kids. We’ve watched the videos together since the very beginning 12 years ago. We have limited computer time especially recreational and game time, quite seriously, in our family, but just because good and well-presented information comes from a video, an e-book or a computer program doesn’t turn it evil or ineffective or taboo to me. Just means I have MORE choices, lower expenses, and better-educated kids better prepared to earn their livings in the real world in a few short years.
My .02.
I was not suggesting in case it came across that way that I am anti computer, I just had the experience that waiting until the kids are older works just as well as if they started young..we use and have used ebooks, and the girls are very up on the techie side of computers – though they did not start until their teens. When the girls were younger and we were stationed in Germany we did not even have a computer and we had no tv…later when we moved to England we had tv and a computer but no online access where we were and even when we could have it, we saw no real need, so it was very easy to avoid – but we liked it that way as well. We moved here to the US when the girls were 13, and then everything seemed to be electronics, and it was around that time post hurricane that the girls started using the computer for school and to stay in touch with my mum, though she died pretty soon after we got the computer. So I am not at all for avoiding the computer completly but I don’t see that it is a problem to do without in the early years, kids learn fast when they are older, and if that is your choice don’t worry about it. My mum got her first computer when she was 68 and taught herself how to use it, send and edit photos do her accounts etc and things so she could stay in touch with us – early learning is not always necessary. As for MUS, and any educational DVDs I am all for them, I wanted to limit the awful drivel that is on the computer in the way of games and time wasting more than anything else – that is why we waited. There are many ways of doing this, it is what works for you:))
Thank you for the thoughts. I guess I can be a bit of Wendell-Berry-type when it comes to this sort of thing, but, I don’t think that anything that is normal is necessary. This is a digital age, and so I want my children to understand that… whether I want them to use it, seems to me at least, an entirely different question.
I was 9 when our family purchased our first computer, in 1991. I was 16 before we had the internet in our home. Today, I have no problems whatsoever using search engines, editing and design software, spreadsheets, or in keeping an organized inbox. My youngest brother was born in 1993, and computers are a completely normalized part of his life. I think that he, and certainly most of his peers, are more burdened by that normalization than empowered by it. I direct a Senior Youth camp (leading approximately 200 very “mainstream” high school students each summer), and I know, personally, that at least 90% of Christian teen boys are enslaved by their ability to use the internet (which includes, for the vast majority of them, an ability to outwit their parents and all the folks at XXXchurch.com in overriding parental controls — because, yes, no adult of our generation could possibly keep up with a kid who was born with an iPhone).
The main thing I separate out is the idea that computers can be a tool used to create and/or organize things, with the idea that computers are the quickest/fastest/best way to find information. You can find plenty of beautiful, useful and informative things on the computer. You can find complete garbage in printed materials (even if you don’t include magazines). The critical difference is, when you are looking something up in a parent-selected reference book, you are not only a couple of clicks away from complete garbage.
I want, and fully intend, to teach my children the specific skills, self-control and discipline that they will need to, one day, use a search engine to find something beautiful/useful/informative online without giving into the curiosity to explore the junk that is always those few clicks away. But, I want to be strategic about how/when I teach this, and to be sure that, until my children are 18, I am the leading computer expert in our home!
All that being said, my question about Math U See and Rosetta Stone is kind of intended for a different vein of thinking altogether; maybe it is one that requires a specific sort of person to understand — perhaps someone who has read/researched extensively in communication studies issues. I am a firm believer that, “the medium is the message.” I don’t think that any one medium is entirely good (if you really want to know how radical I am, PM me about my thoughts on teaching children to read!)… however, I do think that the medium of editable images is particularly not-good.
Math U See and Rosetta Stone potentially fit into my desire to ease my children into the concept of the computer as a source of information. However, I’d be very interested to hear from anyone who would be adverse to using even these and/or who has strong opinions about when that sort of education should begin.
Well, perhaps I’m not a “specific sort of person”. I must say that sounds a weensie bit elitist. I HAVE read, quite a stack, in fact, of books, studies and monographs relating to the digital world and children’s brains. I have registered and share some concerns. I also live in the real world with three sons who will need to be making a living very shortly, and if I shortchange them now it will affect my grandchildren later. I do also teach responsible use, and you are right that it does not take long to learn to use a search engine, but my kids do scads of things every day that are significantly more complicated than that, and that they will need to use later in life, and that will likely take more than a year or so as teens to learn. I’ve also watched my sons very closely for 18 years to monitor their learning and what they think on and where their hearts are. It’s true you can find garbage online. It’s also true you can find an immense amount of good. The MORE the experience, IMO, the better the ability to distinguish between the two. My sons are closely monitored but even so have wandered into an occasional place they did not like–and they came and told me about it, and we communicated about the problem and can deal with it then. I believe in order to learn to be truly responsible about something, it is best to carefully set up graduated experiences resulting in gradually more and more freedom, and watching carefully to see how that freedom is used, and then moving towards more freedom.
I still can’t see how watching Steve Demme on the TV is any different than watching a real-life instructor, like a mom. Unless one thinks the TV sends out automatic brain-zapping waves even with perfectly good content, I’m not sure how avoiding this could sabotage learning. Rosetta Stone is another matter entirely and a computer program can teach you some vocabulary but you are not ever going to achieve conversational fluency that way. Conversational fluency requires, well, conversation, and Rosetta Stone does not and cannot provide that.
But I do apologize if I am the wrong sort of person and you only wanted people with one specific opinion to write in.
Interesting post, and I see a lot of your points and agree with some of them. I agree that using only one medium is not a good thing, but again it can depend on the learning style of the child and what is available. My daughter who is off the chart visual was not making good progress with the German in book form or with Tell Me More on the computer, though her twin did very well – so I got a sample disc of RS and she really liked it, we bought the program and now she is doing brilliantly – so for her RS has her communicating with me regularly in German and has worked well. We used textbooks for math and some teaching textbooks, but again both my daughter’s did really well with the way Steve Demme explained the math – they did algebra in record time with his course and I am grateful for that. If we could have had Steve Demme in our home in person I would have liked that better, but as that was not possible, the MUS DVDs worked great. So we used them because they worked for us, I do not pretend to do a pure CM approach. I too appreciate The Well Trained Mind as a way of teaching. The one thing I am certain of though in my own mind is that it is important to gear the book/dvd/curriculum to the individual child, one size does not fit all and learning styles are a huge consideration. A highly visual child thrives with the right type of curriculum as does the auditory or kinesthetic child. So our school has been very eclectic and varied and we have made mistakes and changed course a couple of times – but overall I see the whole thing as more about the child and less about me and we have done things accordingly. The only thing I feel about teaching a child to read is not to start too soon, I follow the European model with that. Hope you get some responses from those who have strong opinions about this….interesting topic:))) Postscript to Bookworm’s post – I agree about Rosetta Stone, I am a fluent German speaker, so along with the visuals of RS and getting her vocabulary down through that – she was able to start communicating with me better. Before RS she was shy about speaking with me in German, now it is not a problem – the only real way to learn a language is to speak it and do it regularly.
Thanks, missingtheshire. This is very helpful. Can you explain the European model? I haven’t heard of that specifically, and am intrigued.
@Bookworm: I’m sincerely sorry to offend. Clearly, that was a poor choice of words. I guess what I mean is that, as you suggested, on this one, I do want to hear from people who share my opinion about computer content (image-based, fast-paced) as a less-than-ideal medium for developing certain patterns/habits of thoughts (ie. it develops different mental skills than those I hope for for my children — which is, of course, just a personal choice, and I fully believe, “to each his own” on this one, and, also, that we can all agree on that since — in some area or another — our personal ideals about education / our hopes for our children, prompted us to homeschool). I do NOT mean that your opinion is invalid, or simple or anything even remotely like that. Just that, I was hoping to discuss this with people who share some of my ideals on this, and have made a decision one way or the other in regards to these specific curriculum. … It sounds like you have done a wonderful job with your boys. You have given them a great gift. I hope that, 14 years from now, I can say the same for my sons (especially the part about them coming to talk to you when they do stumble upon something they don’t like — what a victory!). Well done!
PS. @missingtheshire — I assume this is a Lord of the Rings reference? I think the LotR movies are a fine example of the movie/visual medium being used for great good.
Technology puts food on our table. I know very few people who do not use it in their jobs every single day. It is where this world is. The key to it is to give our children a filter of how to use it for our good and not harm. It may be the route you choose to go with your family but I love the added benefits that technology brings our children. We are responsible with it and have taught our children to be responsible with it – ages 5 and 7. It is a good thnig and but our irresponsibilities and laziness have turned this good thing bad.
I will encourage you to consider the world in which you live and what your children would face if something were to happen to you and you were no longer able to homeschool them. They would be thrust into an enviroment that fully utilizes technology. They would not be prepared at all. I hope that would never happen but it does happen.
I may not come close to what you’re wanting to hear, but I can tell you how I feel about technology in our home. We, too, are very protective of our children’s eyes and ears with regard to technology. Ours are 6.5 and 8. Neither of them knows how to use the computer. Occasionally, one of them will ask if they can “type” on the computer, so I bring up Notepad and let them go at it. They like to pretend they’re playing office or something, which is perfectly fine in my opinion. 200 years ago boys and girls played war and tea parties because it was war and tea parties all around. Today, mine play office; this is the time we live in.
Neither of our children has a phone and we rarely give them access to our iPhones. Nevertheless, our son can pull up an app or game on an iPhone in less time than I can, and we’ve never even taught him to do that!
My husband’s line of work is computers. He is the director of our church’s IT department, as well as being a network administrator for the church, a sub-campus, a benevolence ministry, and the private school (all operated out of our 10,000+ member church). On the side, he owns his own company and builds software programs. It gets annoying to me at times because it seems like he always has his face in a screen, BUT this is how he provides for his family. I am so grateful that I married a computer geek. His mother allowed him freedom with their technology growing up. My husband was taking VCRs apart and putting them back together again when he was 4. That sparked an interest in gadgets for him, and by the time he was 15, he had built his first computer. Now he can custom-build computers for people in very little time and advise them on what types of memory, RAM, processing speed, etc. to buy. He has taught himself to write code and programs in the last 2 years. He’s very good at what he does. I should also mention that my husband has had NO formal training in computers; he’s never even been to a conference. He doesn’t even have a degree in computers, but instead in practical ministry! That said, what if one of your children has a real interest in gadgets and wants to learn all of this. If they aren’t given free, but supervised, access they don’t have a chance to learn.
From an educator’s perspective, we can’t afford to purchase books that contain all the information that I can find at my fingertips on the computer. A volume of encyclopedias will cost hundreds of dollars, and it’s obsolete a month after it was published. Online information, however, is always current and is being constantly updated to reflect current information. If I want to give my children access to the best, most up-to-date information, I don’t see any other way than having technology in our home. Technology is not evil, when it is used responsibly and with accountability. A computer is not evil because of what is displayed on its screen; it is the user who chooses to wisely or unwisely look at things.
As a family who has used MUS since the first day of our homeschooling journey, I don’t see the difference in my children watching Steve or me watching him. It is fine for our children to see that they can learn from others besides me. Steve teaches concepts far better than I, so I am the first to turn the DVD on and sit there with my child to watch the lessons.
Anyway, if we lived 150 years ago, what you’re talking about would be the ideal because it would be the norm. However, we live in 2012, and IN MY OPINION, it is not only unrealistic to deny our children access to technology (which is the world around them), it is also unfair.
I hope this came across in a loving manner. That is how it is intended.
Blessings,
Lindsey
Yes – Missing the Shire is my name partly because of LOTR but mostly because I actually come from the Shires, Warwickshire to be exact and I miss it terribly and always will.
There is nothing espcially cosmic about the European model that I speak of, except that there is not the huge push to teach reading and math early like they do here and in England. I am a great believer in letting children be children especially in the early years, and see no need for children to start school. I started school at age 5 and I believe it is not necessary to start so young. In England they start as young as 4 now which I think is ridiculous…in countries like Sweden they do not start until 7 or 8 and I am of the mind that is a good age. It does not mean you do not learn anything prior to age 7, but you delay formal learning until that age…children learn at home or at kindy but learn through play and not formally. I just think it is a good idea, that is all, too much pressure too soon is detrimental though I am sure plenty of people disagree, that is why we are all different..
Thanks, LindseyD. It sounds like you give your children a very similar amount of access to the computer as I do. My kids are 3 and 4. Can I ask you when/if you intend to start letting them to do things on the internet (with and then without parental controls)? It’s really helpful for me to hear how other people are balancing these tensions.
@missingtheshire: I didn’t know that some European countries were still holding a later school start time. Exciting!; I will read up more about that. I wholeheartedly agree with you about delaying formal education — it’s part of what drew me to CM. You’ve been wonderfully encouraging. Thank you!
- The topic ‘should a Charlotte Mason homeschool be completely unplugged?’ is closed to new replies.