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Saxon phonics and All About Reading
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Have any of you used Saxon Phonics or the Saxon Phonics Intervention? Any thoughts on it? Did you like or not and why?
We’re trying to figure something out with DD9 who is struggling with reading. I talked to the school district earlier today about possibly having them test her and tutor her. I can’t say I ended the conversation feeling very positive. Mostly felt that they wouldn’t do it. We are feeling like we need someone other than me to help her with this and preferably someone who knows what they are doing.
What about All About Reading for a 4th grader? Would it be too babyish for a 4th grader? We have done All About Spelling Level 1 and 2. She learnes the rules but doesn’t apply them on her own. If I stop and ask her she will tell me the rule and then I have to ask to look at her word, then she will change things. On that note, should I even continue with All About Spelling 3 next year as planned or just forget about it until she is reading better? We started it in hopes that since it was phonics based, it would also help with her reading.
It feels like we try something and it may work for a couple weeks and then we hit a brick wall and struggle the rest of the year. I feel like I’m failing her and really don’t know where to go from here.
Hi Pangit…. I understand exactly how you feel!
We used this free screening test to determine that Delta likely has dyslexia, and that Echo has some warning flags and may have stealth dyslexia.
It isn’t a thourough test, but still gives an idea… You get the results in a few days…
https://www.dynaread.com/pv5-dyslexia-tests.php
We also did a different test here:
http://www.lexercise.com/dyslexia-services/screen-your-child/
I have a bunch of resources here…
http://pinterest.com/scouterguider/dyslexia-dysgraphia-dysnomia/
You are NOT failing her!
If she does have a learning disability, like dyslexia, or something else – she is going to need a LOT more review than AAS has built in…. you need to really make sure she masters those words. I use ANKI instead of the cards to make sure we are getting in enough review…. (If you want, I can send you the ANKI file I have for AAS 1 and 2, and give suggestions on how to use it.)
Is she able to read what she is spelling? If not, then I’d stop the spelling for now. There is a placement test for All About Reading on their site (Level 3 is due out very soon….) – have you looked at those? I know that AAS is supposed to be designed for reading remediation as well as new learners, so I know that they try not to make it too babyish. That said, we haven’t tried it out yet.
The main recommendations on the dyslexia homeschooling board that I’m on is Barton – but that is too expensive for me. All About Reading is supposed to use a similar method (Orton-Gillingham) – but is new, and I don’t know how similar it is.
ABeCeDarian is recommended by some…
I’ve seen Reading Bears recommended on some CM sites (LD subforums) – We’ve done some of it and it looks like it might be helpful – it did show me that Delta can struggle with simple words even when he reads harder ones fine at times….
I’ve seen Reading Reflex recommended (and someone is sending me a copy…. so will know more….)
There are other things out there too.
The All About Reading / Spelling site has various resources – there is a forum, and a blog – with information about using the programs with struggling students.
Again – you are not failing her. Try that DynaRead test (my son’s doctor was glad to get the results to look at – once we have insurance again he will refer him for more testing – but he agreed that something is going on….)
I’m remembering a book called Reading Rescue 123 from years ago. I used it with one son, but loaned it out, never to get it back. It basically established a simple, patient, daily routine that provided lots of practice. Mostly, that has been the issue at our house. With five children, three very close together at first, I found it difficult to get in enough practice time with everyone.
I’m not suggesting it as a “cure,” but worth an inter-library loan if anything else. 🙂
Becca<><
Thank you for your responses.
Suzukimom – Thanks for the encouragement. We did the dynaread test last year and have used dynaread all this year. Of the 40 units that are expected to be finished in 1 – 1 1/2 years, we’ve done 12 of them and she still struggles to read them. I will look into some of the others that you suggested. I have also looked at Barton, but it is expensive!! I would have used it over dynaread if I’d had the money.
TailorMade – I will check to see if our library has the book. The school district recommended Overcoming Dyslexia and our library does have that, I just need to go and pick it up.
One thing to keep in mind (if she has dyslexia – I assume Dynaread says she does) – there is not a single solitairy reading program out there that works for every dyslexic person.
Does she enjoy her other schoolwork? Delta is also struggling with math (facts, not necessarily concepts) but is enjoying it ok. But he LOVES history, and is ok with other subjects like Science. We use a LOT of audiobooks!
The dynaread test stated . . . “displays the typical pattern in the assessment results suggesting phonological processing issues” The memory portion was fine. The fast reading route tested as weak and slow, which in turn causing problems with comprehension. For the slow route testing, she was slow to answer the words and decoded them all wrong. They didn’t even give her the section on comprehension.
Does she enjoy her other schoolwork? She says no. She says she doesn’t like school. And she hates reading. She does like to do science and seems to enjoy history. She loves to listen to stories. She gets the math concepts and is just finishing MUS Gamma, which is on level for 3rd grade. She does seem to forget the math facts not long after knowing them all and getting 100% on them. She used to seem to enjoy math, but I’m not so sure about now.
Can she read her spelling words? She would definately have to work at it. If she will take the time to work out how to spell a word, she can get it right or at least very close. But to show her the word later and ask her to read it . . . she won’t necessarily read it correctly. If I remind her of each rule she misses (and she is in a good mood and willing to try) then she can figure it out.
It all seems like a vicious circle of failure and no wonder she says she doesn’t like school.
The lady I talked to with the school district almost made it sound as if there isn’t a problem. Or at least not dyslexia. I told her that on a standardized test I gave her (state will require it next year, so we just wanted to see how she’d do this year and give her some exposure before it is required) DD scored in the 2nd percentile for reading and she seemed to think that was no big deal. I think it just points to the obvious . . . she struggles with reading. My almost 4th grader only reads Sally, Dick and Jane. She can normally get through Pathway’s First Steps and Days Go By.
I spent some time last night looking at All Aout Reading again. I do like the looks of it. She would probably start with level one. I love that they have a one year money back guarantee. With dynaread it was 30 days and in those 30 days I did see improvement but after a couple of months we hit the brick wall and everything started crumbling. A year is wonderful!!
I am still undecided if I should get another program and try or if she needs someone else at this point. When my Dad was showing her some math things she was talking it over with him and giving him quick answers to things we’d never talked about, then I walked in the room and she became very uncooperative, no longer gave answers that made sense and hada scowl on her face. Her cooperation was a night and day difference when I was in the room or not.
Have you considered just dropping the phonics and enjoying reading good living books together as practice? A lot of kids are slowed down by the all the rules, which can get in the way of reading fluidly.
For more about how Charlotte Mason approached phonics, see our video on Intensive vs Basic phonics.
For spelling, you can use prepared dictation to give words context instead of using a meaningless list of words. However, reading skills should be solid before embarking on spelling. You can avoid a lot of pain and angst by simply waiting a while to build the neccessary foundational skills first.
Doug I just want to chime in. I tried just basic phonics and delightful reading for my daughter but she is going on 9 and still can’t read. So I have now started All About Reading to try and figure out where she might be struggling. I wish the other way would have worked for me but she can’t seem to get past a grade one reading level so far.
Kim.
We do a lot of reading books. I have quit asking her to read so much outside of “reading time” because it frustrates her so much. If she asks to read something I always let her, but that is few and far between.
We began K with Connections Academy (charter school at home) and it was okay, but I didn’t like how they started giving her lots and lots of sight words all at once.
Then we did “Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons”. Well, went well for a little while. Though DD didn’t like it. Most of it hasn’t stuck, either. We had better success with “Progressive Phonics”.
We spent the next year just reading from the Pathway Readers, First Steps, Days Go By and More Days Go By. She will read those books now on occasion, but it’s like she can’t move on past those. We have read some of the 2nd grade reader, but it is difficult and she isn’t retaining anything. She has to struggle to figure out the same words over and over and over and over …
This year we did dynaread and while we saw progress at first, we’ve had the same end results. She hasn’t retained much and we aren’t moving forward.
So, now we are at a point that something has to change . . . but what and how . . .
That is exactly where my daughter ia at. I could get her to half way through More Days Go By and she can’t retain it. I don’t have any advise because I am in the same predicament but I have some encouragement that I keep remembering as we journey through this. It was a mediated learning course that is offered up here in Canada and I learned in the struggling readers course statistically for 20% of children reading will be the hardest thing they will ever do. 30% reading will be a big effort and 30% it come with greater ease but still work involved. Only 20% of children reading will be effortless. I don’t know down there but up here in Canada the slogan for public schools is Success by Six. There is no way most kids will be reading by then. I praise God that i can homeschool her because at a public school she would be made fun of. Because our child is in the percentage of the hardest thing they will ever do think of the character traits God can use in their life when they finally are going to read. So I will just keep trying and know some children will take maybe up to even 12 years sometimes to read fluently. Meanwhile I am going to keep giving her lots of copy work which I read out to her or pick something from scripture she has memorized. She then recites back to me. She loves copy work so I am happy for that. She also desires to read so that helps as we continue by slow degrees.
Kim.
I am right there. My son is a bit further along, but is also stuck. And we had to start basically back at the beginning with math as he seemed to forget everything he had ever learned.
I also have an 8 year old who struggles with reading as well as math. We have gone through 4 different phonics programs with her. None of them really worked. We just finished All About Reading and All About Spelling level 2 in April. We took a month off and then I started reviewing level 2 with her. You would have thought that we did not even do the program, she forgot most of it. It has been a frustrating adventure, learning to read with her. Kim I also went to a mediated learning course in Edmonton Canada. Loved it and learned a lot. We are also reading the pathway readers, reading More Days Go By. She struggles, but loves the stories. I’m going to stick right now with just keeping her reading as much as she will (which is one story aday right now) and doing copy work. Even doing some word building with words in her copy work. The advice that I got from the lady who gave the mediated learning workshop on reading told me recently to play games. Work on memory games, because that is a big problem. Simplify things. To use their strengths, my daughter is very creative. It is important to be creative and work slow. Too much at once and their brains are overloaded. And most importantly, have a positive attitude with them. My daughter thinks that she is doing great, even though it is hard. She in no way thinks that she is at all behind other kids. In school she would be labled and laughed at. I have moments where I just don’t know what to do with her, but then I think of all the phonics that we have worked on, all the things that we have done. If I have done all this with her and it has not sunk in yet, I need to be patient with her. Stuffing more stuff in right now is not going to help. I’m also still praying on how to keep going with her, but right now I know that I need to just continue to let her read. Even if she reads the same stories over and over and over, the better.
btw – I found hsdyslexickids yahoo group to be supportive….
I’ve done a bit of reading – I think it was called “The Gift of Dyslexia”…. I’m not sure I’m up to feeling that it is much of a gift yet…
I am hoping to get my son able to read fluently and do math fluently and everything else. Maybe he will, and maybe he won’t. Right now I’m thankful that he is at home, as it would have been a problem at school. He enjoys learning with audiobooks. I am also thankful that if we don’t get past this barrier, that there is a lot of helpful technology out there, and he should be able to do lots of things… and maybe some of his gifts will really come into play. Who knows?
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