Reasoning with a child

Bookworm….

Do I have teenagers?

Yes and No… lol.

When I married my lovely dh 10 years ago, he was a recent divorcee with a 17yo, 15yo and 11yo in HIS custody.  And NONE of them were happy about me…  oh, and he had just joined our church a month before we met, and only one of his children joined (and she has since left the church.)   So I have experienced teenage years with kids that absolutely hated me, did not believe the same things I did, had had their dad recently change what he believed, etc.

I am certainly hoping that the next bought of teenage years is not quite that stressful!

And God says that if I don’t discipline my children, I really hate them.  Discipline doesn’t have to mean harsh.  It is simply teaching them and bringing them up in the way they should go.  Sometimes it does mean a firm reprimand, sometimes maybe a spank on the “hiney” or time out, or whatever, and sometimes it’s painful, but children who are not disciplined (discipled) will end up hating their parents because they know that their parents really hated them.  I run a pretty tight ship around here.  My dad did with me.  He expected obedience and he got it, one way or another.    But not for a minute did I doubt my dad’s love for us.  He would tell us (as I tell my boys) I expect this because I love you.  If I didn’t, I would be hating you.  God expects obedience and, more seriously than disobeying me, my boys are disobeying God in doing so. 

It’s hard…I know.

A 3 year old is developmental incapable of reasoning.  Really!  I didn’t believe it until I tried the Piget taskes with my 4 year old (look up Piget Conservation on you tube to see what they are) .  My 4 year old couldn’t get that there was the same amount of milk in the tall glass as in the short glass even though she had just seen my ten year old pour it from one glass to the other (and back and then again, and again, and again– my 10 year old REALLY wanted the 4 year old to “get it”  LOL)  Anyoe who can’t understand that the glasses are the same can not be expected to understand the logic of “you’ll be tired in the morning if you don’t go to bed now”.  Now is not the time for reasoning!  The most developmental appropriate way to get complince from a young child is positive reinforcement for doing what you ask  (reasoning can come later– starting at about age 9).

That my 2 cents

Lindsey (who has a 10 year old, a 7 year old, a 4 year old and a degree in behavioral psych)

Dana,

Honestly I have been AMAZED at how effective praise and attention work with kids.  I’m a dog trainer who trains with food and I’m constantly telling people that praise is not enough for their dogs so I almost couldn’t believe how well it works for kids.  Kids crave attention so much that if you really pay attention and “catch them doing right” it’s usually all you need.  Praise is so easy because you always have it with you and can always use it!  The key is not to reward behavior that you don’t want to see again and for so many kids mom’s attention is so important that even nagative attention is better then no attention.  It’s so easy to get into that trap because it’s the bad behavior that irks (sp?) us and that we notice.  We as the parent have to get ourselves in the HABIT of watching for the good behavior.  So for some kids (not all but a lot)  if you are constantly telling them “sit still” “don’t play with your food”  “be quiet”  you are actually reinforcing the behavior because that is what is getting the attention.  Instead train your self to notice that one instant when he is sitting nicely and praise “look how nice your are sitting,  thank you so much”  “love that you are eatting your peas!”  I have read that you should give at least 4 times as many positive comments as you do negative comments.  ANYTHING you want repeated, tell them how much you like that behavior!  And on the other side of the coin.  NEVER, NEVER allow your child to be reinforced for disobedience.  When you draw a line in the sand don’t back down just because of a temper tantrum. Expect the tantrum and recognize that a tantrum now is an opportunity for you to show that you stick to your guns (parental backing down is very powerful reinforcement for the child–“Hey I got my way, I have control”). Be calm, be firm and praise like crazy when they do good. In addition to praise I will also use TV time (“Thanks for doing such a great job cleaning your room now we have time to watch some TV!”) bike rides, trip to the park, games, snacks (set things up so that nap time is followed by snack time etc.) extra stories, ANYTHING that the child likes can be used as positive reinforcement, but always pair it with praise!  And again look for things that might be reinforceing bad behavior.

Hope this helps

Lindsey

This is a great post! We try to line our ways up with the ways of God. Even if the little ones dont fully ‘get it’ they will. Looking at their hearts, and prayerfully trying to guide them in the ways of our living God! The foundation if you will, for our parenting ways, and actions are:

1) In learning to listen to your parents, it will teach you to listen to God

2) Obey 1st, understand later-many times God will lead us to do somthing that doesn’t make sence to us, The same is true with kids (why cant I run after my ball?: Because Mommy sees a car coming that you dont. Why cant I eat the meat before it is cooked? Makes for a great learning op, but they really need to obey BEFORE they understand) PROVERBS 3:5-12 5 “Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

3) “If you love me, obey my commandments” John 14:15 This is an issue of the heart. Our love for God propells us to want to obey Him right? Now, of course this does not mean that a 3 year old lacks love for his Mom if he disobeys, but we should work on their hearts, not only their actions. When my kids disobey, they endure the consequences (for disobediance, they will not ‘get out’ of a punishment because they ‘now’ want to lisen on their terms). True obediance, is not on ‘thier’ terms. My goal in the disipline is to work on their hearts. I want to help them yeild their will, but not break their spirit. After EVERY punishment we hug and pray, they ask forgivness, and also (when I am leading the prayer) I will have them pray with me, thanking God that Mommy and Daddy love them so much that we teach them right from wrong. Trying to cultivate their love & respect, for us and God helps them in the long run to choose obediance. A great way to cultivate that love and respect for us is to keep set boundries, with clear, consistant consequences, we are not yelling, or angry, but teaching them in love. Children (some more than others) test their limits, because they feel more secure when they know theur boundries! You are showing your kids (even at 3) a great love by being consisstant, lovingly firm, and clear.

4) With Obediance Comes Blessing. With disobediance comes sorrow-and eventually repentance. This is shown all over scripture. Our children learn this with natural (related) consequences, and compassion from us the parents. “I am so sorry you made the choice not to eat your dinner, I really wanted you to have a happy tummy for bed” Or “I am so sad we are going to miss our trip to the park today, I hope next time you’ll listen to me & get your shoes.” Certianly the reverse works…”I am so very proud of you! You made a great choice in going to sleep on time last night, now you feel good, and well rested, I think we should play a game!”

While some of my childern could understand reason, others could not at 3…They all learn great from experiance-hence related cosequences. At this age we are largely laying the foundation for later years. Be encouraged, keep on disciplining, it will pay off! If you wait, because they ‘dont get it’ or cannot reason it out yet, the lessons will be 100 fold harder in later years-and will not come so naturally.

You may like to check out 1) Parenting Is HEART work is great 2) ‘love and logic’. 3).The way they Learn 4) The “IF THEN CHART” http://www.doorposts.com/details.aspx?id=14 Again, laygint he foundation, be encouraged, they understand more than we think, and learn fast threw repitition, and expericance.

>As far as the explaining goes, we do talk to our children about anything and everything they want, but not in the moments of disobediance. I also found that these natural consequences, consistantly given with a loving and kind tone, teaches them so much more in the early years, than trying to explain it…

PS please forgive my many type-o’s I am super sleepy!!

All the Best!!!

I would say giving mulitple “warnings” or “chances to choose right” and not following through is a form of habituation.  In other words you teach the child that your warning don’t predict anything relevent to the child.  Technically speaking a warning should be a discriminating stimulus (something that predicts that a behavior will be followed by a consequence) if the stimulus occures repetedly with out the consequence it becomes meaningless.  Thus the punishment seeming unfair.  Some kids may learn to actually push to see how far they can go. But I think for most kids, because they have become habituated to the warnings, they don’t even hear or at least comprehend what was said–it isn’t relevent to them.  So if they are then punished on the 3rd of 4th occurence of the behavior a) they have now ingaged in the behavior 3 or so times and recieved whatever natural reinforcement the enviornment is providing and b) might literaly have no idea that you had asked them to stop that particular behavior (they probably know you are unhappy just not why you are unhappy).

We offen teach kids “the wrong” discriminating stimulus.  For instance parents who count to 3. “Stop throwing sand!  1…2….3”  The word 3 becomes the discriminating  stimulus and kid doesn’t even START to repond until 3.  (Do you really want to have to count to three every time you ask for something?)  My mother-in-law has a great story of my sister-in-law at about age 3 or 4.  Appently she had told Paige a few times that it was time to go and Paige had not responded.  Eventually my mother-in-law said in a stern voice, “Paige…Paige…”  And Paige said to her playmates, “I have to go my mom said ‘Paige, Paige.'”  “Paige…Paige”  had become the discriminating stimuli instead of “time to go.”