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Reasoning with a child
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At what age can you begin reasoning with a child? Such as… The reason your finger hurts is because you’re biting your fingernails so don’t do it. Or… Bedtimes will be much more pleasant if you listen to me instead of disobeying. I mean I sat my son down last night and explained to him how I want bedtimes to go and why… and why my way is better than having battles every night, etc, but it’s like it went in one ear and out the other. Sometimes I give an instruction (such as no standing on the couch) and he blatantly does it anyway. He will say something like, “No, but, I want to do it.” or “No, but, I like to do it.” or “No, I’m just a bird.” It’s like there’s no, well, reasoning with him. Like one day I was trying to explain to him that his request was impossible for me. To explain “impossible” used the example that he can’t possibly fly. But he said he can fly – and I couldn’t convince him that he couldn’t. I finally gave that one up. When do they “get” the concept of things being good and bad? It doesn’t seem like he has remorse over what he’s done. He can say he disobeyed me but just the fact that he did doesn’t seem to bother him, if that makes sense.
Sorry for the rambling post. I’m not even able to pinpoint our specific problems right now. Oh and by the way my son turned 3 in March.
Thanks!
Dana
Oh and one other question. (sorry!) We will tell him to do something. He will say ‘no’ so we send him to time out so THEN he does what we told him to. Would you still send him to time out (or whatever the disciplinary measure was) or allow him to then obey? He’ll say, “NO! I’m going to obey you now!” and run complete the original request. I sure hope this is normal young child behavior.
Thanks again!
Dana
1st I have a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old at this time (plus a 7,9,11 & 12) and if I ask either one of them to do something and they say no and then I say go sit on the couch you didn’t listen to mom and they say Oh I’m getting it mom, I say no you didn’t want to do it when mommy asked 1st you’ll sit and when mom says you can get up and try again. So for me yes I still insist on a time out you might say.
Reasoning is hard cause one child is so different than another. but the above about the couch seems like he’s just disobeying you. That’s what I get from reading it. He hears you, then does it anyway. I would personally see that as disobeying and apply appropiate disapline.
That’s just my feelings. Hope you get more responses.
I have spent a lot of time reasoning with my children and explaining things to them over the years. I wish I had disciplined them more and then they could have figured out why they should have obeyed, or I could have explained it later after the habit was established.
I would definitely NOT try to reason with a three year old. That may sound harsh, but we have so many many conversations now that are extremely frustrating because I’m trying to convince them that my reason is good enough or whatever. I think they would know by now why obeying is so important instead of wanting a good enough reason to do it.
If I could start over at three, I would never explain anything until after they obeyed. And then mostly I think I would just let them see that it’s better on their own. They’ll figure it out.
I’m glad you posted this question, because we have a big thing about this lately. I’ve been trying to train them not to question everything. I mean they are very obedient children and they make good choices, but we have to talk everything to death; and it’s driving us crazy!
All the talk is causing several family members to have anxiety that I don’t think they would have if I hadn’t started out thinking they had to “understand” everything so young.
Good luck!
Oh, by the way, My kids are 18, 12, 10 and 8. So I’ve been through that age several times–explaining things every time (and living to regret it).
Okay that’s interesting. Good to think through.
A couple other examples of what I’m asking came to mind. First, “You need to go to sleep right now because sleep is important and if you stay up too late you will feel bad tomorrow.” And, “You need to eat your dinner so you won’t be hungry later.” etc…
Sort of on the same lines… Do you ever answer the question ‘why’ with “because I said so.”?
Thank you for the responses so far!
Yes, I do use that phrase. Sometimes we just need to mind mom w/out the hassles. You can’t explain somethings to a 3 year old – they are just too abstract and complex. Besides, you don’t have time to explain to kid to “Stop – there’s a truck in the road going too fast and if you keep going you’re going to get run over…” while it is happening. Sometimes they just have to obey because that is what we do.
I agree. Stop explaining. Expect obedience, and expect it the first time. Obedience “on the way to timeout” doesn’t get you out of the timeout. And a timeout doesn’t get them out of doing what they were supposed to do.
Explanations can happen after obedience…. but I wouldn’t do much of that with a 3yo…. then need to experience more life before an explanation makes sense to them. Too much explanation (especially before obedience) will cause kids to grow up coming up with reasons why they shouldn’t have to do something.
Now that said… as they get older I do think some explanation is in order (again, afterwards – and not always) as I do want my children to not just follow orders blindly… I want them to have a moral compass and know that there are times to disobey someone when what is being asked is wrong…. I do find that a hard thing to figure out how I’m going to instill that in them…..
hth!
I agree with the other responses given. Obedience is expected – right away, all the way and cheerfully – at our home. Anything less is not worth having. A 3 year old does not need to know the whys, he only needs to understand and obey.
I have four kids, 10, 7, 4 and 18 months. If my 7 or 10 year old have legitimate questions regarding instruction, they may ask after they’ve obeyed. They both do fairly well, though still learning, with following their moral compass. The younger ones don’t typically have legitimate questions, but rather questioning authority ones.
I agree with others about long explanations, but IMO short statements can be VERY effective. I would often simply say “In our home we do not jump on the couch.” Peroid. Remove him for a short time-out somewhere else. “In our home we don’t hit each other.” “Calling names is hurtful and Dukers don’t do it.” “In our home children obey parents and we all obey God.” Very simple. I didn’t realize how effective this was until once when I caught a child playing with a toy saying “In this barn cows don’t bite horses” LOL
LOL, Bookworm! I agree with you about simple short statements of fact. There’s nothing to question, argue, or mis-understand about these types of explainations…
I agree with the others…I have reasoned too much yrs ago when mine were real little. I think it started because the older one (now 9) is such a thinker..even at 3. But wished I had disciplined first..right away..with a happy heart myself!! LOL!
There is just no reasoning w/ a 3 yr old IMO! Unless he/she is very mature for their age. And your son is smart to know that he may get out of time out by saying he will do what you say after he has been sent to time out! Don’t make that mistake that he doesn’t understand what he is doing…ask me how I know 🙂
HTH
Suzukimom, do you have teens yet? Don’t worry, they will definitely get to that point of questioning why they should do something by then . . . lol. Actually I think it is a healthy thing at older ages to do that to an extent. There might be a place for “just do it because” but teens are working out their worldview, working out how they are going to behave out in the wide world, and they DO need to think for themselves at some point. It’s very annoying (and can be an area for discipline) if they question/argue/challenge every little thing, but IMO it is the time to wonder why we do things that way. Sometimes we don’t always have a complete answer–sometimes the answer needs to be “Because God says so” but where we can, it is good to help them discover the why’s–IMO a young woman who is taught that her body is special and that certain ways of dressing both say things she doesn’t want to say and can lead to problems for others–that is way more valuable than simply “You can’t buy that dress.” But that is definitely not for 3 year olds, so . . . . One thing to remember is that three-year-olds don’t always know how to work out the consequences of their actions. Sometimes, if they hit someone, they DON’T know that it hurts them. At times it might be useful to say “We don’t hit. It hurts people” “You mustn’t jump out of the tree. You could be hurt.” “You must not run into the street. A car could hit you.”
About jumping off couches–I have a funny. When my youngest and most creative child was about 2 1/2 he had a spell where he would climb to the TOP of the couch, way up on the back, and then jump off and madly work his legs as he fell. I disciplined him several times and he kept doing it. I finally asked him WHY he was doing it, and he said “I want to learn how to walk on the air” I had to take a mommy time-out so he wouldnt see me cracking up, then explained to him that we can’t walk on air and he needed to stop doing that. He eventually did, but I don’t remember how long it took anymore.
I know that one of my motivations for reasoning with him is because I don’t want to have to discipline him. It seems so mean. I want him to just obey for crying out loud – and ‘m trying to save him from the bad consequence of his bad decision. I’m basically trying to convince him with my words to do what he should. Ugh. This parenting stuff is just so hard!
And as far as the “because I told you so” thing… Sometimes I think, “You know, it would be good if you just trusted me here. Mommy knows what she’s talking about.” Geez.
This is complex stuff!
(And speaking to the idea of having a more mature child than his age, I don’t think my DS falls into that category. I think he’s your average little boy. I probably do underestimate him at some times…and overestimate him at others.) The second child (due in September) will be easier, right!? 😉
Thanks everybody! This discussion is so helpful!
Dana
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