Question for Long-Term MUS users…

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  • MamaSnow
    Participant

    I am using MUS Alpha with my dd7 (after switching from Math Mammoth, which wasn’t working well for us.). Overall I am happy with it in terms of learning the facts – using the blocks seem to click for her, she needs the repitition it offers, and she really has started to master the addition facts. However, I am feeling it is a little light on application and critical thinking. Is this something that improves as they go through the higher levels? (I know the scope and sequence is not traditional and that doesn’t bother me too much, as long as I know that we WILL get to more of this kind of stuff later.) Has anyone found that they needed to supplement MUS in these areas, or have you been happy with the math application/thinking skills they have gained after completing all of the elementary level books?

    Thanks!

    Jen

    Bookworm
    Participant

    Yes.  The word problems bump up considerably by the time you hit Gamma, and the older levels (pre-algebra and up) contain VERY challenging thought-type and application-type honors pages.  My oldest did MUS from 1st grade to 12th and is currently a physics/mathematics double major in college.  He thinks MUS was TERRIFIC. 

    clay1416
    Participant

    Wow! Bookworm thanks for that testimony! I havent started any formal math (other than calendar, learning numbers, etc) but I have been thinking to use MUS for a while.

    LindseyD
    Participant

    I have two in MUS, and we have used it from the very beginning. We love it! Dd7 has 6 lessons left in Alpha, and ds8 is currently on lesson 10 in Gamma. Like Bookworm said, the critical thinking goes up considerably as you progress from book to book. In fact, you’ll notice a lot more word problems and even 2-step word problems in the second half of Alpha. Ds did a couple of 2-step problems today that got his brain working. Also, in Alpha your child will be doing basic algebra, which I consider to be a critical thinking skill. MUS also teaches at every level the ability to be able to work a problem forward and backward. You’ll notice that later on, when your child begins subtraction (lesson 18). Mr. Steve teaches that in order to know if you have the right answer for 17-9, you have to be able to ask yourself the algebra question of “what plus 9 is the same as 17?”. And, the child will learn to check his work. If he answers that 17-9=6, he will have to work the problem backward and prove that 6+9=17. Because it doesn’t, he will learn to correct his work, and eventually you won’t even have to hover over him to make sure he’s getting it. That is what I love about MUS. From all angles, it naturally guides the child into knowing math facts inside and out, to use practical applications and critical thinking of word problems, introduces simple algebra from the beginning, and promotes mastery.

    I really hope all that made sense!

    Press on! It gets better!

    Lindsey

    MamaSnow
    Participant

    Thanks ladies…this helps a lot. Overall, MUS Alpha is going well for us and seems to click with the way dd thinks. We are just finishing the addition section of Alpha, so will be moving on to subtraction next week. Just a little bit concerned that she is learning to go through all the steps without being able to apply what she knows in other applications. Not sure if this is a function of age and maturity (that will improve as she gains experience) and/or a function of how the program works (and therefore we should consider something else, as much as I don’t want to be a curriculum hopper). I’ve talked to some others recently who switched away from MUS for some of these reasons, but at the same time I don’t know that many of these people went beyond Alpha and maybe Beta…hence the question. I am in the process of gathering school materials for the next several years before we leave for Africa in January since it will be difficult and expensive to get things later on, so I just want to be really sure that we are heading in the right direction before I buy three years worth of MUS materials for 2 kids all at once (since my next child will also reach school age before we head stateside again)…that’s a pretty hefty commitment to the curriculum!

    Appreciate the thoughts, all.

    Jen

    my3boys
    Participant

    Every child is different, as well as, every program and how they work with each child. With that said, we are using MUS Gamma with a 10 yo. He seems to be doing much better, applying what he is learning outside the context of the lesson (which is very hard for him), and really enjoying math. He liked/loved what we were using before but it was too teacher intensive, I just couldn’t do it anymore. I don’t see us moving away from MUS for awhile, but if we do, it may be Teaching Textbooks. But we’ll see. I don’t like to curriculum hop, especially with math, but if it begins to not work then I guess we’d have to do something.

    HTH

    JennNC
    Participant

    That is a big decision to make, Jen! I understand why you’re concerned. I don’t think you will be sorry if you stick with MUS though. I have kids in 5 different levels of MUS all the way from Primer to Algebra II and couldn’t be happier with it. My kids have to test every year because of state law and they do very well even though MUS is not a teach-to-the-test program. It is plenty all by itself in my opinion.

    MamaSnow
    Participant

    Thanks JennNC for mentioning the testing thing too…while I am not a fan of testing at all, it is something we’ll have to do eventually, and I do have to admit a bit of a niggling worry that MUS’s atypical scope and sequence might cause some problems with that. Glad to know it isn’t the case! 🙂

    Jen

    MamaSnow
    Participant

    Hi again ladies…bumping this topic again because I’m still dithering. =) Here is my quandry…while my dd is doing well with Alpha (as in she can explain to me what she is doing with the blocks and does her worksheets nearly perfectly and with ease), she gets completely stumped by any kind of math applications in other contexts. For example, we’ve been adding in some extra word problems and things and she’s completely clueless how to go about solving them. I’m having a hard time discerning if this a fault of the program or a function of maturity that will work itself out with more time and experience. I’m afraid that she’s just learning to go through the motions to get the right answers rather than really thinking through what she is doing. Have any of you other long-term MUS users noticed this kind of thing with your child? What’s your take on it?

    Thanks for helping me hash this out!

    Jen

    houseofchaos
    Participant

    Hi Jen,

    Word problems ARE hard!  We have had varying experiences with children beginning word problems.  Some take to it easily, others not so much.  Our son, who is now 14, began in Alpha and experienced the same thing you describe.  He is in Algebra now and does well with word problems – just maturity and experience with practical application. 

    Personally, I have found that MathUSee encourages the exact kind of thinking you are looking for.  It just takes time.  We have five childrem using MathUSee, in Algebra, Pre-Algebra, Zeta, Gamma, Beta.  We plan to use it all the way through, unless the upper levels are inferior to the ones we have used so far. 

    Gaeleen

    MamaSnow
    Participant

    Thanks Gaeleen. Maybe I’m just expecting too much too soon. She DOES do well with the word problems on the MUS worksheets…it’s when I give her things in other contexts that she is clueless. Maybe I just need to drop the other things and trust the process, and get over my niggling feeling that maybe MUS by itself isn’t enough? Sigh.

    Any other thoughts welcome, though. (Bookworm?)

    Jen

    LindseyD
    Participant

    Jen,

    I agree w/ Gaeleen. My dd7 is in Alpha on lesson 25, and she’s still having some difficulty with the word problems. If I remember correctly, ds also had some trouble at this age. I really think it’s a maturity thing and that they’re just developing their critical thinking skills. Word problems are hard! Dd has the hardest time with trying to figure out what function to use in the word problems. The two-step problems are the hardest for her, but with some help she does get them in time. I would say give it some time. I didn’t even feel like math was beginning to be successful for us until ds was about a third of the way through Beta. Now it’s clicking daily and we’re progressing very nicely. I’m going to give dd that same benefit of the doubt and just wait and see because I really think somewhere along the way, it finally clicks for them.

    Lindsey

    houseofchaos
    Participant

    Right.  Sorry, I did read your entire post and then didn’t respond in full.  I meant to add that although it took a while for our oldest two to begin thinking mathematically outside of their math book, it did happen!! 

    So much math can come up in daily conversation to help them connect the concepts in their math book with mathematical concepts in daily life.  Just doing this a couple of times at the grocery store or wherever can really make a big difference.. “Hmm…. if I need four _______ to make supper tonight and I have one at home already, how many do I need to buy?” 

    I always make these questions appropriate to what they’re learning, but easy so they’re guaranteed not to fail – the idea for me isn’t to cause brain drain but just to encourage them to think mathematically.  Our kids also have an easier time working in a book than verbally, so I take that into account.

    I added in a problem solving book, one page, once a week from Continental Press because I had your worries in the early yeasr:

    http://www.continentalpress.com/pages/products/47.html

    Extra practice did help with some of our children (we have some that just do not seem to connect thoughts very easily).  I really think MathUSee is a fine stand-alone program though, and supplements are not necessary.

     

     

     

    Bookworm
    Participant

    Hi, Jen.  I think this is pretty  normal–most kids take some time to get used to this.  In my experience, my kids do better at word problems than I ever expected, but then I had a TERRIBLE time with this myself as a child.  I think my kids do pretty well compared to other kids as well, and my oldest has adapted well to college math.  I think your kids DO need some time, and perhaps some more practice.  This won’t work as easily when your children are in, say, algebra, but for now you can turn everyday moments into real-life application word problems, and I suggest you make doing this a habit to help support your children in learning this.  Ask them questions, and vary the ways in which you do it.  Ask them questions about HOW you could get answers to different problems.  They are really too young yet for critical-thinking and problem-solving supplements (I do have some things of this sort I have tried.)  We do enjoy them, but for us they are merely an adjunct to the MUS.  I’d just concentrate on making CERTAIN they have the ideas down cold from MUS.  The IDEAS must be there, the mechanics themselves are not enough (my downfall as a student.)  If they understand the ideas, and get lots of practice, they WILL be able to do word problems.  It will come.  Make sure the underlying concepts are there, more than just that they can solve the basic problems or memorize the facts. 

    MamaSnow
    Participant

    Thank you for the encouragement ladies. I appreciate your willingness to share your experiences. After thinking over your responses and talking it over with my dh last night…I think perhaps I am just expecting too much yet. She is *only* on lesson 18 of Alpha! And I probably DO need to make more of an effort to try to bring up math applications as we go about regular life. I’m horrible at remembering to do this, but at this point that is probably the most valuable ‘supplement’ I could give her. (That and I probably just need to quit looking at what other math curriculums are doing in the first year that make me second guess what we are doing…when really it IS working for us both – as I said before dd is doing well with the material in Alpha itself, and the way the program is organized is a good fit for our family life and my teaching style too.)

    Thanks for the help ladies!

    Jen

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