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Off Topic: Church/Fellowship Question
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It says we are to go door to door and visit in the houses. I think our relationships are of a more personal thing. I agree if I am on the go to much my house and my family suffer more. I know G-d appoints some of those meetings. For instance, yesterday we went to the Library. THe kids left something on in the van and the battery was dead when we came out of the Library. I sat and prayed and asked G-d what he wanted us to do. I couldn’t get reception to call my husband and there was no one around. My sons decided to ask for help from a home down the street. The woman brought her car over to jump it. It was a newer vehicle and we couldn’t get it jumped…. Battery was hid under a box and we couldn’t reach the posts. ect…
She invited us to call my husband and wait for him. It was nice because we were able to fellowship with her. She was a lonely widow and it was wonderful to talk about the Lord. After my husband came he told her about her vehicle and if it ever needed jumped what to do. He also told her he could fix her electical problem on her older vehicle that she couldn’t get anyone else to work on. 🙂
Point…. If we would have been in Bible Study on Wed. nights. Which that was where we would have been if we would have been in our old church. We never would have gotten to know a wonderful person and minister to her needs as well as ours.
We both knew it was a devine appointment. It felt good to let G-d intervene in creating it.
I do agree Bible Study needs to be done. I do agree there needs to be fellowship with other beleivers. However, sometimes there is to much fellowship and not enough family growth, Sometimes there is to much inactivity “activity” Maybe there was to much “inactivity” in this church that they had to require some from everyone and that is how being require activities came about. However, “inactivity” activities can be daunting. If you were ministering to someone as a group. For instance… Helping the elderly fix their home or cleaning it and then had a pot luck afterwards and fed her that would be and active activity which would honor G-d. I would stick to those type of fellowship moments of growth.
What my children learned in the process… Mom, remained calm as we prayed for G-d to take care of us. Let him choose when he will help, where and why. Watch my children get excited about the oppurtunity to see him work instead of overwhelmed by a vehicle not running to go where we have to be. Daughter being the first to suggest we pray and let G-d do the work instead of me suggesting it. Then, afterwards watching all of them Thank G-d for his intervention.
Maybe you could help out where needed in the church. Minister to your family first. Join the church later when it is right for your family. The church isn’t a building that you worship in. It is in you. It is in other people around you. We are the body of Christ. If you feel like you need to be a member. Join the club. You already belong to the Body of Christ . You are already a member. Where you choose to fellowship is where others meet to worship him in Spirit as a governing body. It is just a building where people come together. Even Christ went from house to house with his ministry. He worshipped in the Synygogue on the Sabbath. He worshipped there for the feasts.
Maybe G-d is trying to show you something in the way he wants you to worship as a family. He is doing this as a growing process right now. Pray about it and ask him to show you how you can please him in your worship. Tell him you want to worship him in the way that honors him. In the way he wants to be worshipped. Tell him to show you that way so you can please him. He will answer you. It may not be in the way you are expecting but he will answer you.
Blessings! I will hold you up in this prayer! 🙂
Dh and I are at a small church fellowship that we adore, with some things rubbing us the wrong way (but we found wherever we fellowship there are some things that rub us the wrong way just for the fact that we are human and not perfect by nature). Some of these things may be on the part of our individual selfishness, and some on the part of legalism in the leadership. We decided to look at the big picture (just like with extended family we have differences, we are bound to encounter differences of opinion in the church body). Our church body and leadership seeks the Lord first, teaches the adults and children straight from the Bible, and is extremely fervent in prayer. Those are our priorities, so we look over some things that we see as legalism.
Our church has many activities….mid-week Bible study in homes, 3 Sunday morning sessions (the Lord’s supper, Sunday school, and a congregational worship/sermon time). Sept.-May there is a kid’s AWANA program Sunday afternoons. In addition there is a summer camp ministry, a prison ministry, occassional Satruday am work days, quarterly potlucks b/n the Sunday am meetings and AWANA, and other various outreach/ministry opportunities arise. None of these are mandantory, but are highly encouraged. For those that don’t participate in most things that is fine, only I’ve found the fellowship bond with fellow believers is tighter as we are more involved. The elders do meet with those that don’t participate and encourage the participation, but after that leave it up to the individual. I do feel our church overall does a good job at sharpening one another, but its an area that could be improved upon. While accountability for one another and fellowship outside of Sunday am is vital to a healthly church body, each individual family needs to be the priority in our opinion. Our church elders have addressed with my dh us not attending everything on Sunday am (because we choose not to spend 9am-4pm in church each Sunday during AWANA season). Dh has told them we need that family time. Some elders totally understand. Some elders have a judgemental opinion thinking since they have their kids in everything every Sunday they are putting God first and we’re choosing our family time over “God”. I observe many of their kids are weary come the last activities of the day, even though every activity and teaching is well meaning. For us, God first does not equal church first. For us, God is first in our family, in our church fellowship, in our work, and in our ministry. It all weaves together. We believe that America has created a society that requires longer work weeks, social requirements, etc…that rob us from individual family time.
I can’t advise you to what to do in your situation, but I would have problem with a church leadership that was rigid in their requirements for attendance to things in their schedule. A church member serving, fellowshipping, living out the word of God (with some sharpening along the way), etc….. should be the measuring stick vs. having dinner every Wed. night and being available at every thing. I understand the Acts scripture about the body meeting in each other’s homes and living life together, but it was a natural outflow not a scheduled “you must be at so and so’s house on such and such night or else you can’t be a member of this fellowship”. If you were just showing up on Sunday am to mark that off your list without being involved, accountable, and serving in other ways that would be a different story. In our case, dh and I have decided that if some elders think we are not walking as close to God as we could by not participating in all the church services, we have to be okay with their opinion while continuing on making our family time a priority. If the elders required this of us, we would lovingly have to leave the fellowship.
First, I totally understand wanting to be at home. I am very similar to this.
Before we moved to California we were a part of a wonderful church that had services Sunday am and pm and Wed. midweek serivices, this Wed. night was the bible studies, youth, and childrens programs. After awhile they changed the Sunday pm service to small groups meeting in homes.
We then moved to California 8 years ago where all they have is Sunday service. Then everyday of the week is something, corporate prayer, bible study for women, for men, youth, children, outreaches. Literally it is every day all day.
We were not required to do any of it so I can definitly see where that could rub you wrong.
In my experience though, we felt very connected and close in a family oriented way vs what we have now. Now we feel very disconnected. Yes, our Sunday night was fellowship and prayer. But we were together as a family with other families sharing life. What this did was allow relationships to grow so that we were truly part of one another’s lifes, holding eachother accountable, sharing needs, meeting needs, etc. Even on Wed. we were all together at church but meeting seperatly on that one day. In the 8 years we have been here, I have never felt that.
So I say that to encourage you to maybe reconsider the fellowship time. Meeting with other believers is not pointless and when you laugh together, eat together, cry together, then you can go deeper.
From what I gathered you still are only going on Sunday, not really adding more days and it fulfills your commitment to be a part of this church that you all like, which isn’t easy to find.
Praying for your decisions!
Vanessa
I agree that I likely would not stay if a church absolutely required something that was not a biblical mandate and I didn’t feel led to do it. I would pray about what level of commitment we were comfortable with and just do that and try not to worry about what others think. However, if they were verbal or unrelenting about it I would not be able to stay.
And I agree that there are many other biblical ways to serve and glorify God besides being at church activities. Many churches can be too inward-focused w/no time for outreach. I know I struggle w/reaching out as much as I should. This past year was low-key for me as far as formal, regular church time commitments besides church and being in a small group. It was refreshing to have time/energy to serve at things as they came up w/o it feeling burdensome. I think that’s partly why I feel that I now have enough energy and feel leading to start a neighborhood women’s study. But if I were at church 10x/mo. I know I would more likely feel too stressed/busy to reach out like that. Just more .02 to take or leave:) Gina
“But we were together as a family with other families sharing life. What this did was allow relationships to grow so that we were truly part of one another’s lifes, holding eachother accountable, sharing needs, meeting needs, etc.”
This is so crucial in the body of Christ!
Just a couple thoughts…first off the goal of everything we do should be to please God, not ourselves or others. That can be a measuring stick for considering new activities or committments. Secondly, why not practice hospitality in your own home? We have made some of our best friends in homes, sitting down and really talking over coffee, relaxing, watching the kids play, or whatever! Fellowship and accountability are necessary, but not always found in a busy, group setting. Sometimes being really busy is just that…being busy 🙂
I haven’t read any of this discussion. So pardon me if I step on toes. I’m not trying to. We go to a church that has no fellowship. None. We’ve been there 2 1/2 years and many weeks wonder how it is a church. I have done a lot of Bible searching on this as it’s been very difficult to be in a place where there is no encouragement (my dh isn’t a Christian either and we are military and move frequently). I have been struck by how much fellwoship they had. They often lived together. They knew intimately each others lives. But, this doesn’t at all look like today’s church of twaddle filled get togethers. Paul for example was usually with church a relatively short time but he knew them intimately. Your family has to decide for yourselves what you are going to participate in, serve in, etc. We have no Sunday school (I like this), no formal or informal get togethers at all where we attend. The families here use family as an idol to not do what the Bible clearly states as being the church. I say that to you as a word of caution to you. Family is not the end all be all! The family is part of the bigger plan: the church – the Bride of Christ (follow Abraham’s lieage all the way through Revelation). When we separate our families and forsake the church we are missing out on the fullness of God (and so our our children).
We attend a church where life groups are a big deal. Plus, there’s children’s ministry (which we are not part of), ladies’ group (which I do not attend), men’s group (which my dh does attend), and tons of other evening activities, plus three services per weekend. Do we feel this is excessive? Yes, which is why we have chosen purposefully and intentionally what we will participate in.
However, in reading through the Bible and reading about fellowship, I have to agree with pollysoup on this one. It’s easy as homeschooling families to get caught in the trap of “it has to be family all the time and anything else is sin”. But Christ is about community. Serving and loving on people is not just an extracurricular activity, it’s a command. So, whether you do this in the context of church or on your own (ie. volunteering at a homeless shelter or nursing home), Christianity is all about community. Familiy is certainly part of that community, and always our families should come first. After all, we have no business ministering to others if we fail to minister to our own families. BUT, our love and service shouldn’t stop at family. That doesn’t teach our children the real Gospel. And, Jesus did call us to be “in the world, but not of it”. And he dined with sinners and tax collectors, touched lepers, and allowed adulterous women to touch him. He did not become like them, but the fullness of love was shown through His participation in the community. This will look different for each family, and I believe we are mandated to protect our children from things they can’t understand or would cause them to sin.
Alas, I digress. I don’t mean to step on toes, but I am a minister’s wife. I have seen the pendulum swing both ways and have been in churches that have no fellowship and churches who require too much from their membership. We must each seek Truth and search God’s Word, then prayerfully choose what, if any, activities we will participate in. Always allow peace to be the umpire of your heart!
Blessings,
Lindsey
It’s a tricky balance. I think many ( not saying all!!!) larger families with many children tend to be inwardly focused due to the logistics of it all. It’s hard to get several kids out of the home environment and watching them while doing something church related. Even with just my four kids, I have to be watchful and attentive wherever we go and therefore community with others can pose difficultly. It’s not an excuse, but it is a challenge. Its important to remember this when looking at the reasons families do what they do.
“‘I don’t believe churches should require more than the Bible does, which in terms of attendance would mean Sunday worship.’
The Bible says not to forsake the assembly together with other believers. To me this does not mandate Sunday morning church but that believers are gathering together edifying each other. Am I missing a Scripture some where?”
I am not quite sure what the thrust of the question is. Of course the Bible says not to neglect meeting together. I think the question is when this meeting happens. I have nothing against mid-week groups; I would strongly encourage them. I would not like to be in a church where they are required. Sunday worship should be expected (barring illness, travel, people like doctors who may need to work on some Sundays, etc). The verse I would go to for this is the 4th commandment. There is one day a week which is set apart for the Lord. But all other days should be up to the individual, including things like Christmas.
This is not your question, but a lot of people have mentioned churches thta have long hours of acitvities on Sunday. I would not be too keen on this either. There are certain things we shoudl do on the Lord’s day, like pray, sing psalms, hear preaching. But things like AWANA and many other activities I would also not be comfortable with requiring. I think we also need to be wary of a situation in which the day of rest and worship becomes just as busy and stressful (or more so) than other days.
Nebby
This thread has been on my mind again this morning. I really don’t think events being mandatory in order to be a member is a good sign. To me, it would be a much better focus for the church to develop an environment where the church is functioning like a church family should so that the members do not want to miss the events unless absolutely necessary. I think that would produce a much healthier body than one where members are required to attend.
Just my 2 cents but it hit me quite strongly this morning.
I want to take the time to thank you ladies for your thoughts, input and varying opinions. It is a great thing where I can come and ask a loaded, possibly controversial question and not be blasted if you disagree with my take on it. I value this board very much!
@HiddenJewel, that is precisely where I am standing on this. After speaking with my husband about it thoroughly, I realize that we both have that same view. I have had believers in my house and I love to fellowship with believers often. I want to be in a church where everyone loves each other so much that they won’t leave you to yourself. But making it mandatory is the part I am having trouble with.
I didn’t want to mention this before, as I didn’t want this discussion to go the way of “Is moderate drinking a sin?” and have discussions about the alcohol or no alcohol issue, but at the community group I have been attending there is drinking. Moderate drinking – never drunkenness -is accepted by the leadership in the church and I personally do not have a problem with alcohol in extreme moderation on occasion, but this is a weekly thing, mixed with scattered small talk and grilling out and standing around the fire while the children run a muck with neighborhood children whom I don’t feel comfortable leaving my children with unsupervised. That’s my husband’s issue. If it were more, if we prayed together, really shared with one another, opened the scriptures together, it would be useful for the edification of the body. This event is not that…and this event is the one to which I have to commit and re-commit yearly in order for my membership to be active.
I am torn. Really, really torn. The Sunday morning teaching session is amazing. Charles Spurgeon and Jonathan Edwards haven’t preached better, more theologically sound sermons that spur and encourage you in your walk with Jesus, in my opinion…but this extra biblical mandate is the part I am struggling with. It may mean that we continue to attend, participate and serve as we feel led, but that we never join, and that is unsettling.
Thank you ladies again so much. I can’t express to you how much this board encourages me!!
Not as far as I know. But of course there wouldn’t be any voting rights, which I guess I am okay with. There’s something to being a member, though. I am disappointed that we wouldn’t be allowed to join.
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