Observations and Questions on LA (Sonya ;)

Yes, you are correct that it depends on what standard you are using.  I used to fret over this.  The total CM way appeals to me more, but I was afraid I’d be lacking.  Only you can decide as the parent what way is best for your children.  I struggled and finally decided I’d do most things the CM way, but language arts is so critical I feel the need to make sure my bases are covered, just in case (hope I don’t get into trouble here!)  If anyone disagrees with the following exerpt, I’d love to hear more on this.  But what convinced me to do more with LA was this section from an article by Susan Wise Bauer, a literary professor.   You can google the whole article—or I belive it is http://www.welltrainedmind/charlottemason.html.  She compares classical vs. CM (though I think CM IS classical).  She cites how very similar the two methods are in most areas, but the LA is very different. She is quoting from Catherine Levison’s book on CM.  Here is the composition/grammar section:

Composition and grammar. My biggest disagreement with Levison’s recommendations have to do with methods of teaching writing. Levison writes, “Charlotte Mason…assures us [children] will be able to write if they have had good books. There is a strong warning in Home Education not to hamper children with instruction.” She goes on to suggest that children aged six to nine do only oral narrations; ten and eleven year olds do written narrations and “learn punctuation and capitalization by seeing so much well-written literature. Composition comes naturally to children who have spent time with books.” Nine to twelve year olds write essays on history and literature, junior high students “write on subjects they are really interested in,” and only high school students do formal essays. “Even then,” Levison concludes, “we are not to ‘teach’ much.” She suggests instead that they take notes on history, literature, and art, write letters to the newspaper, and write research papers.
In my experience, this method just doesn’t work for many students; I’ve seen reams of wretched writing from children who have read plenty of good literature. Literature needs to be read and appreciated, but grammar and composition skills are quite different from literature; these skills need to be explicitly taught, or students will not know how to construct essays or how to use complex language to support their arguments. I also find that students who don’t do plenty of short, skill-building assignments early on are completely lost when they arrive in junior high and are told to “write on subjects they are really interested in.” They need careful instruction in the skill of building written arguments.

I’m not suggesting that young children be forced to write reams every day. Rather, I’m recommending that even young children study grammar (Mason’s 15-20 minutes per day is a good guideline here), learn the rules of proper usage, and do short (one to two sentence) writing assignments in order to apply those rules. Middle grade students need a formal writing curriculum so that they can learn how to put paragraphs and compositions together. Without this preparation, they are likely to flounder in high school – and it is much more difficult to learn writing skills for the first time in ninth grade than to learn them gradually in the eight grades preceding.
Writing continues to be a weak area in the larger home school community; we need more, not less, explicit teaching in this area.

My personal compomise is to follow CM in the early years, then in 3rd grade we use Writing Tales (kid-friendly/short lessons) and  then 5th grade Classical Writing(deeper, but both are progymnasmata programs—the classical Greek way of teaching children to develop their writing into the rhetorical stage), because I want my kids to be able to develop arguments/persuasive essays.  Maybe this can be achieved the CM way, too, but I don’t have enough confidence that I’d do that well:) We also use JAG/AG that SCM recommends for grammar. I’d love to hear more comments on this. Blessings, Gina

Hi Amanda,

I know, I can bet bogged down with all of this, too.  Probably because I have spent A LOT of time on the Well-Trained Mind forum and reading what other moms are doing.  Just my opinion, but I wouldn’t be concerned about your 7-yr. old having trouble writing creatively.  I only have my 7 yr. old doing copywork and he orally narrates readings. We do use Spelling Workout, but I don’t make him do it all and it’s very short.  We used a language arts program with my current 10 yr. old when she was in 1st/2nd and she had a lot of difficulty writing creatively—like pulling teeth.  That’s why I like Writing Tales/Classical Writing—-going on the premise of copying great works first while kids are still building their base of knowledge—they’ll have more to write about later.  Actually, the 1st 2 levels (3rd/4th) are basically just written narrations and beg. grammar (and they correct their spelling/edit their work). 

If LLATL is working good for you, I wouldn’t worry about what other people think:)  Unless you have true concerns.  If people are saying the grammar isn’t enough, I think using JAG/AG at some point covers everything you need—rec. by both SCM and WTM. I’m more CM with this—don’t see the need in so much grammar in the earlier years.    Have you looked at PLL or ILL?  I plan to use PLL with my son for 2nd/3rd. 

I’m not much help, but I commisserate with you!  Blessings, Gina

HI Amanda,

I don’t know if this will be useful to you, but here you go: I am using PLL w/my son now, in his second year (3rd). I like it, but only rarely do I require any writing from him. I incorporate it orally; he has great handwriting, however he dislikes it and I don’t want to inflame that dislike unecessarily. I am going to use ILL, too. I also use the Elson Readers w/their accompanying workbooks starting in the 2nd grade, but using a CM style presentation, i.e. narrating the story just read insterad of asking questions and using the vocabulary in a CM style (additonally I break the word into syllables on the chalkboard and discuss the root of the word if applicable) and the phonics lesson I use what I”ve learned from “…Tricks” and using “Phonics Made Plain”. I know that may sound a little jumbled but it’s not really. This is a quick explanation; if you want a more detailed one, let me know. Slow and easy, yet steady, is my goal. Instilling their love of language is the beginning and too much writing and strict LA too soon, IMO, destroys that. If they love language, teaching them later all of the rules of language and composition (of which I am a proponent) will come much easier.

For your own personal education in the area of spelling, I can only recommend “ABC’s and all their Tricks”, for the sole purpose of you learning the why’s and wherefore’s of spelling to increase your confidence in this area. I am a natural speller (when I say that I inevitably misspell something!) and LA always came easy to me. However, my son, who is an avid reader, was not doing well in spelling and I didn’t know what to do! So I got that book and Phonics Made Plain for teacing it and now I am quite surprised at how mcuh I am learning! Plus, I feel more confident in teaching. I never really knew why something was spelled a certain way, I just spelled it. But he required more than that and now I’m glad because I was able to educate myself then pass that along to him.

Two more things, another way I “fill in the gaps” is once a week my children each read to themselves and then we discuss it,  one of the “What Every Child Should KNow” series for their ‘grade level’. And for you to read, to have a scope and sequence regarding CM, you may be interested in reading through “Teaching Children: A Curriculum guide to what children need to know at each level through grade six” by Diane Lopez and Susan MaCaulay contributing. Ambleside ONline also has a scope and sequence available for you to peruse.

Keep praying for G-ds Guidance, discernment and confidence; He will Provide. 

Rachel

(Moderator’s note: Regretfully, we had to remove the link to the Language Arts scope and sequence since Ambleside Online requests that links be made only with their permission and only to their home page. I hope you can find the information by searching their site.)