Name: ICHE Homeschool Conference
Start: 2025-06-05T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-06-07T23:59:59-05:00
Location: Bourbonnais, IL

Tagged: habits, infants, obedience

This topic has 16 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 9 months ago by Sanveann.

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June 5, 2010 at 5:22 pm
masonsmommy
Member
First of all I’m brand new on this forum and I’m really hoping to find wonderful advice on implementing Charlotte’s habits training with my son. He is 14 months old and has been home from Korea for a little over 3 months. He is understanding a good amount of English and I’d like to start on obedience with a few basic commands like “come to mommy” and so on, but when he does not do so or looks at me and walks in my general direction, but goes for a toy instead how do I correct him. He’s also prone to temper fits when told “no” which he completely understands…not always, but sometimes, and if he doesn’t want to come to me b/c of the aforementioned toy and I need him, so I pick him up and bring him to where I was, a little less than half the time he will fuss and sometimes scream, but is easily enough distracted back to smiles. I hope all that makes sense and I look forward to any advice, encourage, or counsel I might receive. Thank you in advance!
Heather
June 5, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Rebekahy
Participant
I highly recommend the website and accompanying book http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com  It is a very gentle (though definitely labor intense) and detailed approach to child training – while she suggests spanking as part of the process in certain situations, she also explains how to proceed if you cannot (foster child) or prefer not to spank. Your little guy is the perfect age to get started with tomato “staking”. All of the information in the book can be read for FREE at the website, but I have found it so useful that I bought the book to have at my fingertips.
Enjoy!
Rebekah
July 28, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Sanveann
Member
I’m new here, so I’m hesitant to say this … but I find the Godly Tomatoes site horrifying. The part where she and her husband repeatedly spank their daughter for saying “I’m coming” the wrong way when she’s called was especially horrible, IMHO.
I have two boys, ages 3 and 1 1/2. We have had a lot of luck with “1-2-3 Magic” with the older one. With the younger, I just “help” him follow an instruction if he doesn’t listen right away. I also really like “Biblical Parenting” by Crystal Lutton and her “Five Steps.”
FWIW, I’m not big on the concept “first-time obedience.” As I told a friend once who asked my why not, I said, “Because they’re toddlers, and this isn’t the Army!”
July 28, 2010 at 8:15 pm
missceegee
Participant
I am very big on first time obedience and heartily second the book, Raising Godly Tomatoes. Also, I am reminded of Charlotte’s quote, “Tardy, unwilling, occasional obedience is hardly worth the having.”
Here is a blog post from Sonya on Moral Habits, where you can read more.
At 14 months, you can certainly begin the training process whatever methods you choose and I would encourage you to expect obedience. After all, if you aren’t expecting the child to obey, why should he.
Blessings,
Christie
July 28, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Misty
Participant
I also have to agree on 1st time obiedence. Here is my reason. If you don’t expect it each time then they learn that when “they” feel like it (what ever the “it” may be) is what is expected. I have 6 and one on the way, I can’t wait for them to decide when to do things.
I loved raising godly tomatos and have been working on training my daughter who has a very strong will. Patience, time and God’s loving hand. I will also pray for you . Misty
July 28, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Sanveann
Member
A 14-month-old is still a BABY.
I’m not saying children shouldn’t obey; I’m saying that I don’ t think a child of 1 or 2 or 3 should be subject to the same disciplinary requirements as someone in boot camp.
July 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm
missceegee
Participant
Saveann,
I do not think a 14 month old is a baby, but a toddler capable of learning and responding much more than an infant and believing so doesn’t mean that I have my toddler in boot camp.
Might I respectfully suggest that you not use terms like “boot camp” to describe the methods others here may choose to discipline their children. The SCM forum has always been a place where CM interested moms (and dads) can post to receive advice and suggestions in an encouraging and loving manner. In that regard it is a much kinder place to ask for advice than many other forums.
~Christie
July 28, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Sanveann
Member
Christie, I apologize if my terminology was overly harsh. When I hear “first-time obedience,” I always picture kids who “snap to it” like little soldiers, hence the military analogies! I don’t know anyone in real life who actually implements this philosophy with their children, so my perception may well be inaccurate.
I guess I just don’t see a problem with giving kids — especially very young ones — a couple of chances to get things right in minor matters. I know some people feel that if kids don’t obey instantly in small things, they won’t in big things, though (as I pointed out on the other thread), that’s not been my experience at all.
July 29, 2010 at 1:49 am
2flowerboys
Participant
Sanveann,
I used to think the same thing when my kids were little. And then when they got older..I had to re-train. I gave them leeway when they were young tots. And I have “paid” dearly for being slack. My kids were pretty good 3 and under…and lo and behold when they got older…there wasn’t any first time obedience! And sometimes we still struggle with it! Wished I had done what many mom’s have done on this forum when their children were young!
Of course there are times when you may give second chances! Praise the Lord He gives second chances.
Any form of not doing what is told the first time is disobedience! Obedience is acting and responding,no hesitation. Great website http://www.characterjournal.com/html/obedience.htm
Great quote: “Obedience is much more seen in little things than in great” Thomas Fuller
July 29, 2010 at 2:06 am
missceegee
Participant
Sanveann, (I’ve been misspelling your name, sorry about that.)
I appreciate your apology on behalf our us first time obedience people. Sounds strange, but I can’t think of a better way to put that right now. Training for first time obedience, is not nearly so harsh as you’ve pictured, I assure you.
Your children are quite young yet and perhaps you won’t have any of these issues, but in my experience of working with and observing children over many years and raising my own for almost 10 years, children who aren’t taught to obey in small things do have a much tougher time obeying in big things. Not that it’s impossible, of course, but it’s tougher and it’s a problem that is avoidable for the most part.
I’ve no doubt of your love for your kids and your desire for what’s best for them. Also, I can appreciate your point of view, even if it differs from my own. I hope that you’ll remain on this forum as it is a wonderful place to share and learn and grow. It’s just that the sharing, learning, and growing happen best when we’re all doing so in love and without reproach or the appearance thereof.
I’ll leave you with this quote which I believe was from Charlotte Mason, “Sow a thought, reap an action; sow an action, reap a habit; sow a habit, reap a character.” A worthy thought to keep in mind as we raise our kiddos.
Blessings,
Christie
July 29, 2010 at 3:15 am
Sanveann
Member
Christie, I’m glad to know it isn’t quite the picture I had in my head! I’ve always associated the term with very hardcore followers of the Pearls and the like — families where kids are “switched” for not immediately obeying every command.
Have you ever read Razing Ruth’s blog? (She’s a young woman who left her AFI/Gothard family and writes about her experience learning about life outside the QF community.) At any rate, she writes in one of her posts about how her parents used to give her and her siblings nonsensical commands (like “put the magazine in the shower”), and then punish them if they didn’t follow them immediately. To be honest, that’s the sort of thing I always associated with the phrase “first-time obedience” — sort of an unthinking, robotic response based on fear of punishment. I’m so glad to know that’s not the case in all families, lol!
Can you explain to me what you do when, say, one of your children doesn’t pick up his or her toys immediately after being asked?
This is my usual method: I tell my oldest, “Matthew, please put your trains away.” If he doesn’t begin putting them away in a few seconds, I remind him, “That’s 1.” Usually at that point he’ll begin right away. If he doesn’t, I say, “That’s 2. Do you need help?” And I almost NEVER get past “2,” but if I do get to “3,” then I get up and put his hand on a train, then into the basket to put it away, etc.So I do give him a couple of chances, but I don’t just let it go if he doesn’t do it. He WILL be putting the trains away, one way or another!
July 29, 2010 at 12:59 pm
missceegee
Participant
First off, I try not to give any instruction that I cannot make sure is carried out immediately. For example, if we are still working on obeying right away, I won’t direct the child to pick up the toys while I’m nursing the baby and unable to make sure he follows through. I’ll wait a few minutes so that I can make sure the job is done when I give the instruction. Secondly, I do follow the methods in the Raising Godly Tomatoes book pretty closely. I tomato stake and use the variety of techniques outlined in that book. I try to watch, respond, and act accordingly.
If my 3yo is playing with some toys and it is now time to put them away, I will instruct her to do so, watching for her reaction. She is to respond with, “Yes, Mama,” and get started right then, anything less is not obedience. If, as I watch, she doesn’t say, “Yes, Mama,” and begin, I discern whether she heard me or not. If it’s clear that she heard me, but is not doing what I’ve asked, I give a quick swat to the bottom and say, “You must obey Mama.” At this point, she’ll say “Yes, Mama” and do as instructed with a cheerful face. If she is not cheerful, we work on that heart issue of changing our emotions, which I do believe is very important. Now, bear in mind, this swat is to garner her attention and rarely even produces tears. If there are tears, they are because she is sad that she’s disappointed Mama by disobedience. Is my way the only way, certainly not. Is my way effective at getting the child to obey with a truly cheerful countenance, yes it is.
I do not ever count to my children in regards to discipline. They are to obey when I first instruct. Children can quickly learn to manipulate the situation. If Mama’s not going to make me obey until she counts to 3, then I’ll wait until then. I liken counting to nagging. Children whose parents nag learn to disobey until Mama’s voice reaches that certain pitch or until Mama gets so fed up she does it herself.
Blessings,
Christie
Oh, I suppose I should mention that spankings are rare in our home, mainly because our children are trained to obey the first time and respect us as the authority in their lives.
July 29, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Sanveann
Member
If you didn’t spank, how would you immediately reinforce?
I do find that with my kids (well, the 3yo at least), I almost never have to count past 1. If I do, it’s generally because he’s totally engrossed in something really fascinating and needs some help disengaging. (I’m much the same way, lol!)
July 29, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Bookworm
Participant
Sanveann,
One thing to consider about the “counting to three” thing–I did this with my first son at first. And do you know what? I didn’ t have HIM trained–he had ME trained not to expect him to obey until I got “really serious” That led me to reevaluate what I did. You know, we need to look at what sort of person we want to end up with. Children are only children for a heartbeat. Before you know it they will be bigger than you. 🙂 I didn’t want a son who thought he had several “trials” to get it right in obeying, for example, the traffic laws, or the prohibition against adultery. So I needed to train my child in a way that made obeying NOT seem like something you can do when you feel like it. I found that half the battle is as Christie said, don’t give a command unless you really mean it the first time, the child can do it, and you are sure the child hears you. I would often say “Look at me with your eyes”–now that I have teens that makes them roll their eyes. They have to respond to me verbally when I tell them something. Then I give the command. If they do not obey, I walk right up to them and stand there and fix them with my mama eye–you know the one. 🙂 Obeying then gets a “thank you, now also do ____ for not obeying right away.” Not obeying with the mama eye–well. That gets a trip to the Wall, where we have scripture verses. It will also get a consequence. When they were littler, I would help them recite the requisite verse–we began with just a few. And then I’d help them with a consequence also. I only spanked for outright defiance, myself, and not always then–but that was a result of the individual children I had. Children are not all alike. Parents are not all alike. There is a wide variety of parenting styles, and even within a certain style there is a wide variety. There are first-time obedience spankers who keep wonderful close loving ties with their children and grandchildren. There are first-time obedience spankers who do seem to be running a military academy. There are attachment parenting folks who have very well behaved children. And there are attachment parenting parents whose children rule the roost and create mayhem wherever they go. It is easy to abuse nearly any philosophy. It is much harder to follow the Spirit at all times. I don’t know that it necessarily has as much to do with what branch of religion you follow. I grew up Catholic, and boy, were we ever spanked. 🙂 My dad took absolutely no nonsense, and he kept switches out back. In fact, the worst spanking I ever got was from a little nun named Sister Albert. 🙂
This is why I hate to see divisions, “us” versus “them.” We are all parents who want the best for our children, whether Catholic or Protestant or LDS or spankers or not. We can disagree with each other without treating each other as dangerous or poisonous. And it’s a good thing to keep a mind open to other styles, because you never know when you might have a child or a situation that doesn’t fit your usual mold. This happened to me–when I was younger and had my first baby I had it ALL figured out, exactly how to do this parenting thing–pretty much to do the exact opposite of what my parents did. It took until he was about two before I decided maybe I didn’t already know everything. 🙂 Now he’s 16 and I’m SURE I don’t know everything. 🙂
July 29, 2010 at 2:30 pm
missceegee
Participant
Bookworm, very well put and I couldn’t agree more.