Neo-Classical Education and CM Education

I just noticed this thread this morning.  I took a needed break from the busyness of online discussion for several weeks in order to prepare for the upcoming year’s studies and take care of other more pressing things on my to-do list.  Maybe a day, or two ago, I decided to pop in, catch up, and visit.  I’ve been sadly agrivated all day. 

Back story, if interested.  I’ve been blessed to learn from a variety of educators.  Some have been classical, including Charlotte Mason (my opinion).  Our family invited the Bluedorn’s to stay in our home and share their view of classical education the week after 9/11.  At the same time, our homeschool support group was doing a book study of Karen Andreola’s Companion, then moved on to some of Miss Mason’s Original Series.  This was years ago, Ladies.  I’ve used what I gleaned from both to teach each one of our children based on their “personhood.” Of course, some of you know that I also utilize Montessori methods during the early (and late years) and have enjoyed stretches of what some would say falls into the Unschooling category.  We’ve done unit studies; we’ve used boxed curriculum that seemed like a good idea at the time.  Our children learned in every situation.  I learned in every situation.  Every option has had its blessings and moments that seemed like a curse.

This thread, for me, is not about a comparison between facts and ideas.  It is a discussion of facts and opinions.  Here’s the link to The Five Homeschooling Styles.  https://simplycharlottemason.com/five-homeschooling-styles/  I appreciate that Sonya shares that all five are legitimate ways to educate children.  They each have strengths and weaknesses, all of them.  Somehow, she is very effective in sharing why she loves CM methods and how she utilizes them in her home without seeming to devalue other methods, nor intimidate anyone into thinking it’s CM, or the highway.

I know we all get excited about what we are learning at any given moment.  I’m guilty. I recall almost demanding that everyone must read Laurie Bestvater’s book because it brought clarity to me about “Keeping” notebooks.  We’ve done this in a variety of ways over the years (even with a year of Bauer’s WTM!)  Somehow, Bestvater’s book spoke to me….most likely because I like clean lines, no-nonsense, simplicity.  SCM is attractive that way to me.  If I can’t pull off high tea, it isn’t because I don’t think it’s pretty, it’s because, for me, it’s a mess….maybe I’m lazy.  I do love herbal tea from the microwave in the afternoon.  As for my recommendation to read The Living Page, almost to my shock, there were at least a handful of people who disliked it, and greatly.  It taught me a lesson.  As persons, we are all unique and learn uniquely.  We talk as if this is only about our children, but it’s about each adult, too. 

Quite honestly, it almost seems as if this is maybe more related to the differences between right and left brained thinking/learning.  I’m not an expert.  I’ve just observed learners, young and old, in a variety of settings.  Some flourish surrounded by ideas and beautiful paintings.  Others are fascinated by specific details and get lost in too much decoration.  Since Charlotte Mason’s and Leigh Bortins’ quotes have been compared, I think you might want to consider their giftedness while reading their words.  You may not know that Mrs. Bortins is an engineer.  It might make a difference to understand that she possiby sees the brain as being designed, by God, as a magnificent machine/computer.  Does it not act this way to a certain degree?  This wouldn’t necessarily be the background from which Miss Mason would approach learning.  But, it would explain the difference in word choice to a degree.

I guess my real frustration lies in the area of my desire to encourage each mother where she is in life while homeschooling.  I’ve needed that encouragement at times and have rarely found it in the homeschooling community.  Why?  Because of the need to be in the good, better, best camp.  It’s why I left CC.  Yes, I was a Director/Tutor.  I won’t go into the details, but will defend MissusLeata and Jawgee when I say that when you haven’t been a part of it, you cannot rely on an outside interpretation, even if it’s filtered through an acquaintance who’s been in it and utilized it to any degree in their homeschool.  I also couldn’t justify having my own children and the other children in our CCC commit to memory the names of false gods at a young age when they hadn’t even been exposed to the names of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. 

There are things that I cannot seem to convert to in order to implement CM education at home.  I’m one that lumps CM’s affinity for Shakespeare into the same category as memorizing the false god’s list.  What would the ratings be if today’s standards had been applied when his plays were trending?  I know it confounds many that I just won’t go there, but I am a person who is raising persons and cannot lead them there, even if the argument sounds half way convincing.  “The Bunny” song from Veggie Tales just popped into my mind.  I must be over tired.

If any of you have ever felt intimidated by AO, or CM schools because you can’t, or won’t embrace their version of Charlotte Mason, you might understand how another mother might find some of the comments in this thread discouraging, even damaging to their souls.  It hurts to be accused, even softly, of not wanting to view your children as persons.  Whether intentional, or not, the words written in this thread are read that way.  In person, maybe it might appear a bit softer, but I’m not certain of that either.

I’m one of the moms that has used both methods by tweaking them to fit the needs of each child.  It’s not hard to do, but it is time consuming.  Not any more time consuming than weeding through several of the touted booklists and whittling them down to a family approved/preferred list and dissecting them into term determined chunks/bits/pieces.  I include some memorization of facts which wouldn’t necessarily be labeled CM from an outsider’s viewpoint because of the way some of our children learn them.  They aren’t just math factseither. They fit nicely into the part of the week that we call Book of Centuries/Timeline studies.  They fit into map studies (names of continents, countries, states, capitols, cities, rivers, mountain ranges, deserts, etc.)  They fit into the names that we call various words. For whatever reason, someone chose to name each type of word.  They fit into music theory and appreciation.  They fit into scientific method.  (An aside I can’t explain. I’m very CM in the math and sciences department and find myself ridiculed for pursuing this adventure, mostly by CM purists.) 

Maybe we should consider the fact that these are human philosophies that we are comparing.  Miss Mason’s, Mrs. Bortins’, the Bluedorn’s, Mrs. Glass’, and all the others’ words are opinions based on their observations of the way people learn.  I will agree that many of them use The Living Word of God to support their argument for why they’ve chosen to align themselves with a particular viewpoint/philosophy.  But, we might need to consider that some children and adults are inspired after reading/hearing a living book in which others lost interest.  The opposite would be true if this same group people is motivated to dig deeper into a particular subject matter based of and encounter with facts that were exciting to them, yet dry and dead to the rest.

Consider Scripture memory.  Many of us have the goal of bathing our children in it.  We know that it will result in an ever deepening relationship with the One Who created them.  But, that doesn’t mean that a verse, which is a fact, true and living, might not seem dry and boring in the early years.  Does it not breathe life into them anyway, whether they know it at the time, or not?!?  I’ve witnessed great reasons for memorizing facts in the earlier years, not for performance purposes (as many view CC’s Memory Master program,) but just because it’s easier.  It takes older students and adults much more time to memorize facts, poems, even foreign languages than it does for young children to do so.  This, quite frankly, falls into the listening then speaking, reading then writing idea.  Why can this be used in certain areas of CM education with no questions asked, yet not in other subject areas?

I hope this is shedding some light on how parents who combine parts of classical education can so easily mesh them with CM methods.  Maybe these similarities haven’t been pointed out before.  It’s hard to see them from the outside, just as it’s difficult for a diehard classicist to recognize that somehow, over time, everything will happily fall into place for the children of CM pursists. They may see it as an organized version of that sinister method called unschooling…..because they misunderstand from their point of view.

We should really be encouraging each other to love our husbands and children and to be kind to one another.  I’ve probably been a frustration to many of you off and on, but just have to say that you all have different gifts and I learn from each of you.  I really don’t like watching either side be misunderstood, or misrepresented.  I think you each have valuable insight based on your past experiences and current studies which can be used in your homes to educate your children well.  They can be a blessing to others who are near to the same page, have learned it previously, or would like to be inspired in a new way.  It’s fun to know what everyone is reading and learning.  But, if we keep in mind the idea of the person, we need to leave room for each mom to be a person and learn and teach from where God is leading her and her family. He may have need for moms to be a witness in all sorts of communities.  If we rule out His individualized instructions for each of us based on an adherence to human philosophy/methods, we may be ruling out an unexpected blessing.  A dear friend, a new recipe, fogiveness, courage, rest, or the title of a good book might be in the camp over yonder.  I know if I hadn’t stuck around here long enough to have someone shed light on the reasons for reading Plutarch, I’d have missed knowing the right gift to give to one of our oldest children.

I mentioned that I gave a rave review of a CM methods book to the dismay of others.  I’m going out on a limb here, as I recommend a completely different book….and, not based on this conversation at all.  I’ve just been greatly encouraged in my daily life recently while reading Miriam Nadler’s book called Honoring God with My Life:  Issues of Sense & Sensibility.  If you want a glimpse of a review (based on just a page more than halfway through the book,) you’ll find my thoughts here:

http://topsyturvytoile.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/do-we-really-want-to-know/

It’s really not a review as much as it is a record of a recent happy learning moment.  I needed a reminder that I’m where I need to be after feeling guilty about stepping away from quite a bit of outside activities.  It’s my version of  “Less is More” right now. 

Tailormade, that was an excellent post. I really have taken in recent months more of a “live and let live” attitude on these issues when I’ve always been very outspoken. Not to condemn anyone for what they’re doing but in excitement for what I’m learning. Now I rarely discuss many things at all. I’m like Christie. Charlotte’s philosophy fascinates and thrills me and it IS different than any other educational philosophy (doesn’t make it better for every family.) But I find it difficult (and frustrating, frankly) that we can’t discuss Charlotte Mason on a Charlotte Mason forum…which is why I rarely post anymore except to answer quick y/n questions. I’m blessed to have a fabulous CM support groups (with names you would recognize) where we do discuss Charlotte’s methods and hash these things out. I’m pretty much a purist along with several others of the group, but not everyone is and that’s OK. We don’t condemn them for where they are or what part of CM they choose to embrace or not. But we DO discuss CM. That’s why we’re there and we’re all free to take from the feast, as Chsrlotte would say, as we see fit.

I know very little about CC specifically except for those of my library patrons who are doing it. Some love it. Some are disillusioned and are asking me about CM. But since the Holy Spirit is their teacher, I just answer their questions and let HIM do the directing.

But if we are sharing what we see as differences and someone who is more intimately associated with the “other side” tells us that we are misunderstanding it, why would we insist they are wrong?

I LOVE so much about the CM approach. Love it. 

But the idea that CC doesn’t see children as people just isn’t right. As has been pointed out, Leigh Bortin was an engineer. She’s going to make analogies to computers and machines. 

Anyway, I think discussing whether or no CM is classical or if CC and CM are compatible or whether or not there is benefit to rote memorization…..those havelots of room for duscussion and opinions. I only posted a disagreement after reading an article that said classical was memorization of facts without context.