Narration & Dictation Questions

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  • March 7, 2010 at 1:55 am
    amandajhilburn
    Participant

    Ok…I have been looking at some “helps” with narration and dictation online.Embarassed My daughter still has about 6 weeks of “school” left and I plan to begin using LLATL (4th grade) with her in August, but for right now I would like to hold off and do some narration and dictation. I am posting these questions on this forum because I know I will get honest and polite answers.

     1. Dictation- I am confused a bit about this. I read this article on TWTM site (I know….Embarassed) and it appears that this dictation is not studied like Spelling Wisdom would instruct. The teacher repeats the sentence several times and reminds the child about punctuation. What is the difference and why is CM dictation “studied dictation”? I noticed in our LLATL that the dictation in there is not studied either. I need some whys…..

    2. Narration- This is also from TWTM site and it appears that the mother helps the child to summarize the narration. I am not sure how to help my children with narration at this point and this explanation looks helpful to me. Is there anything wrong with this method of narration? In the past I have felt like I am giving them the answers when I help them with narration, but they honestly do not know where to begin.

    To finish up my daughter’s 3rd grade year, I was thinking of doing this (after I figure out how to do dictation and narration correctly 🙂

    -Narration from Aesop’s Fables orally and begin writing them after she narrates orally.

    -Dictation using sentences I have made up with the 100 most misspelled words list from the internet. (she is an awesome speller and has yet to be challenged with spelling) I quit using Spelling Wisdom because the punctuation tripped her up and frustrated her. Hmm….any advice about that?

     

     

     

    March 7, 2010 at 2:52 am
    amandajhilburn
    Participant

    It also appears that Susan Bauer uses dictation and narration for the sole purpose of pre-writing. Not for spelling and composition. And from what I can tell LLATL is written from the Ruth Beechick method…..I assume that is also different from CM and Classical! Ugh! I once again am confused. I like the ideas of narration and dictation, but am not sure what curriculum to use now!?  I had no idea that there were different ways to use these methods. I am going to make lists and try to compare these three myself, but would love to hear from someone more knowlegeable. I want to use the method that I think will work best for my children, but I need to have an idea of how these methods are laid out before I can decide. Any help or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

    March 7, 2010 at 3:55 am
    mrsjamiesouth
    Member

    For Narration Help I started using a Narration Cube.  http://www.pennygardner.com/narrationcube.html  It has been helpful for getting my son to tell me things he used to leave out.

    I have looked back and forth at all the different styles too, in fact I just borrowed TWTM from the Library last week. Embarassed  When I really take the time to pray over it, I know that CM is right for us.  What is most important is me is shaping my children’s lives and habits.  I would rather have them play a game outside, help me plant our garden, or just share silly stories with me than spend that extra time memorizing facts.  There is that part of me that wants them to look brilliant to others, but its pride and material for Me and not from God. 

    Here’s a good article on Narration

    http://www.livingbookscurriculum.com/mm5/pdf/LBC-Successful-Narration-article.pdf

    March 7, 2010 at 9:13 pm
    amandajhilburn
    Participant

    The Well-Trained Mind was the very first book I read about homeschooling, so I tend to go back to it sometimes. However, I also always decide that their way is too much for my kids. I know this, but for some reason I tend to freak out on occasion and feel like I am not doing enough. So this time I wrote down what my son would be using for 3rd grade if I followed TWTM. He would be using (for Language Arts alone) 5 different workbooks!! He would mentally shut down if he was asked to do that! After  getting real with myself on this, I plan to put that book away and only use it as a reference for science or history books. LOL!!

    Now, I am also not very confident with teaching language arts so going full force with CM methods scares me right now. I am just not ready for the responsibility yet. So LLATL seems to be the best bet for me. It seems to be a good middle ground mix of everything without being too much for the kids or too little help for me. We have been just kind of floating about this year and I am not sure we have really learned much of anything while I have been trying to get myself together. I am going to let them continue using that they have been doing for the rest of this year and resolve to be more prepared in August 🙂

    Here are some things I have learned while trying to figure this all out:

    Narration can be used for a number of good things (pre writing, comprehension, self expression, organizing thoughts) all of which I want to implement in our school. Dictation also has more than one advantage to the student (spelling, punctuation, seeing the words in the mind’s eye before putting it on paper) also very important skills that I want to teach. So…..no matter what, we will be doing narration and dictation in some form. I do know that my children are not used to narration just yet and need to practice more before I try and get them to narrate 3 or 4 pages of our history reading (which I have been trying to do, much to their dispare!) So for the rest of this “school year” I am going to read Aesop to them and let them practice narration. Then I will also start using some simple dictation sentences for them both from their reading books (on their own levels).

     

    I have looked through the LLATL for 3rd and 4th grades and I really like them both. We will use this beginning in August. I will add copywork daily and I may try Spelling Wisdom again with my daughter at that point. We will then, hopefully, have a better feel for narration and be able to use it with history and science topics. So I now have a plan and feel very comfortable with it.

    However, if any of you ladies (or men…) feel that I am mistaken on some level about narration and dictation, please help me 🙂

     

    Oh, and thanks so much for the links listed above! I really like the cube and am planing to try it out.

     

    March 7, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    Sonya Shafer
    Moderator

    I love your plan to use Aesop’s fables to help you all get a good footing in narration. Great idea!

    You’re right, dictation is a method that many people use in different ways. You asked about why Charlotte used studied dictation and what the difference is between that and cold-turkey dictation. I’ll be happy to address a few thoughts that direction for you.

    Charlotte emphasized prepared dictation because she wanted to make sure the child was seeing and studying the correct model first and most. The concept is similar to the training of a bank teller: study the real thing very closely, then you will be able to spot any counterfeit. With prepared dictation, the child is seeing and studying the words to learn how to spell them correctly, and seeing the punctuation used correctly in a variety of settings (conversations, questions, commands, etc.). With cold-turkey dictation, the child will probably be guessing at some of those aspects.

    A couple other aspects of her philosophy also come into play with how she used prepared dictation. By allowing the child to study the passage ahead of time, you give him an opportunity to demonstrate what he knows when he finally does the exercise. It’s similar to the way she used narration to allow the child to tell you what he remembers and understands, rather than questioning him to find out what he doesn’t remember or know. Thinking from the student’s standpoint, would you rather be “tested” over something you were allowed to see and study or over something you had never seen before? It would be easy to feel like the teacher is trying to trip you up and expose your mistakes in the latter scenario.

    Also, Charlotte used the prepared dictation exercise to reinforce her emphasis on the habit of attention, because the phrase or sentence is given only once, not repeated. This aspect could cause a lot of stress if the child were trying to do dictation without preparing or studying, but with the preparation included, the one-time-only rule is not considered a hardship.

    Those are a few of the reasons CM uses studied, or prepared, dictation. I hope that helps clarify the differences a little more.

    March 7, 2010 at 10:02 pm
    Sharity
    Member

    I just wanted to share that the first thing I used for narration with my boys was Aesop for Children.  I wanted something easy since we had never done narration before.  I would read the really short ones at first or maybe just a paragraph at a time and ask them to narrate.  It was and still is great practice for them.  We are getting a late start with CM, my boys are 11 and 9.  Anyway, just wanted to encourage you that I think Aesop is a good start for narration, at least it was for us! 

    One other thing and this is just a thought, I’m certainly not an expert, but I noticed that on the SCM curriculum guide dictation is not suggested until 4 grade.  The trouble you had with dictation could be that your dd needs those few extra months from 3rd to 4th grade to mature a little in her studies.  I know when ds 11yo was first learning to read just putting our lessons away for 2 or 3 months made a huge deal.  We picked it back up and he took off reading like it was a piece of cake!  Anyway, just a thought. 

    Blessings!

    Sharity   

    March 7, 2010 at 10:46 pm
    amandajhilburn
    Participant

    Thanks Sonya and Sharity. I can see that a studied dictation makes so much more sense than “cold turkey”. It would almost be like setting the child up to fail….well, my children would feel that way.

    I also agree that once my daughter is actually old enough to use Spelling Wisdom, she may benefit from it much more 🙂  You are right. I just feel like I have been so scattered this school year and have made several mistakes. I want to be more prepared and am very thankful for all of the help I get on this forum.

    Now I may post a new question in a few………Surprised

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