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narration and discipline during school
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Hi! My name is Jennifer. I am new here…..I thought I would introduce myself and ask you for your thoughts on a few things. I have 3 boys, 7, 6, and 2. I used to be a teacher in public school, before kids. Although I can’t say that it has helped me much since I started homeschooling! Homeschooling is much harder than teaching in a classroom! This is my first year homeschooling. I have switched my teaching methods about 5 times in the last month! But, everytime I have tried the CM methods, they have worked! So, I think I have found my home! But, I had a couple questions…..
How much narration should a 6 year old be able to do? If I ask my son to retell me the story, he says “I can’t remember.” But, if I ask him questions about it or ask him what happened after __________, then he can usually tell me. Is that considered narration or should I try to get him to come up with it on his own?
This question is a general homeschool question. My boys are very active. We were having problems with our boys’ behavior at the beginning of summer. So, we started a new discipline strategy. We were having a lot of positive results. But, then, we decided to homeschool a week before public school started. I was so concerned with getting their education figured out that we all started slipping back into our old ways. We are back where we started. Here is my dilemna. This is the discipline method that was working well over the summer………. I tell them one time what to do (or not do.) Then, if they don’t listen then they have an immediate 10 minute time out. This method worked just fine for us until we started homeschooling. Now….not so much. I do a lot of their lessons together. So, if I stop to give them an immediate time out, then they will miss the lesson or we all have to wait. Plus, I have a 2 year old. A lot of their lessons are during nap time. So, if we waste half my little guy’s nap time with time outs, then we get to do it with a 2 year old in the middle of everything! So, I tried just keeping a tally of their time outs and giving them at the end of school. But, it doesn’t work! They hate the time out, but the threat of a time out later, does nothing to change the behavior at that moment. So I am faced with these questions……Do I give them alternate independent work for awhile so I can give them immediate timeouts? Is there another discipline method that I should consider? I guess my biggest issue is that we all love the CM method. None of us really want to go back to them doing a lot of independent work, but maybe I should just consider it for awhile. And I am not sure what independent work I would use. I don’t want to just give them busywork. I thought about just doing literature, character, and copywork for a couple weeks, since they are easier to stop and go. What would you do?
Thanks for your thoughts!
Jennifer
I am interested to see any responses myself. Thank you for asking this.
I have a 4.5 and 2.5 boys and am beginning a few things for “preschool” very gentle, but just to get into a routine together, and most of the time the 2.5 yr old participates and sits for story or game as well. So far just changing it up from sitting still for story, activity, another sit still activity, a game or handicraft with music on or outside for a little nature study to find and look up a bug, seems to help because they are both so focused and not worn out from just trying to sit still for a long time.
We try and do a lot of Love and Logic in our home with great results when I remember (check it out online I think there are even free tips) And phrases like “Feel free to __join us, etc.____ as long as you can be sweet.” work better for me.
But what to do for a family lesson they “can’t” miss? Could you pause the family subject and switch to a fun read-aloud or math game with the others while the offender went to time-out (as one could do if their attention span is waning) ?
Interested to hear others responses.
Thanks for your ideas! I try to change up our activities pretty frequently. But, I may examine my schedule again, just to make sure. I am familiar with Love and Logic. That was what we used with our boys for a long time. The language for it is great, but the logical consequences haven’t been the most effective for them. I don’t think they have logic yet! It upsets them at the time, but it does not deter future behaviors. But, I may look at it again. Maybe we are just doing it wrong. I like your idea about fun lessons during the other child’s time out. I am envisioning a “waiting” box filled with fun, educational items that I would love to get to more often, but never seem to have time to do! I am thinking that I might just plan a little lighter load so that I can factor extra time for the “character training.” Also, I think it might motivate the other child to continue good behavior instead of joining in with his brother’s misbehavior. I feel like I have figured out the best way to discipline them. I just haven’t figured out how to mesh it with homeschooling. My only concern now is figuring out what kinds of activities I should put in the box. I have been reading the recent posts about “twaddle”-a term I was very unfamiliar with before this site! I am realizing that a lot of what I have done in homeschooling (and as a classroom teacher) was twaddle. So, I am trying to convert my thinking and look at the educational value of each activity, also. So, here are some things I am thinking……see any twaddle? file folder games, extra read alouds, word building with cubes, magnetic poetry, a sketch book and watercolor pencils……that is all I can come up with at the moment. But, my braining is pondering……..
Thanks for taking the time to give me your ideas!
Jennifer
Just wanted to say that I also LOVE the Love and Logic stuff. We actually use Loving on Purpose, but it is based on Love and Logic. Most of it, anyways.
The ideas for a “waiting” box are great! What is a file folder game? Some other fun things we’ve done so far (and it isn’t much since my boys are still so young) are carving bars of soap, homemade playdough, making a fun snack together, building anything (blocks of leftover wood outside, legos, etc. inside), pretending something together (current favorite is campfire complete with cottonball “marshmallows” on real sticks!) I think the main thought here would be to make it just painful enough for the one in time out to be missing so much fun, even if you have to whoop it up a bit or put on some fun praise music or something! And around here they are always trying to get my full attention and do things with them anyway, so it is like bonus one-on-one time for the one being sweet.
A file folder game is a simple, homemade game that addresses one skill at a time and is usually centered around a theme. For example, I have one that is a train. The train cars have words on them. The child arranges the train car behind the engine in abc order. You can get pattern books for file folder games at most libraries. Or you can get some free templates online. Or, you can buy pre-made games online that you just print and cut in full color. My kids love them. But, again, I am wondering if they might be considered twaddle. It may just depend on how much my kids actually learn from them. So, it would probably vary from game to game. But, warning….they are a lot of work to make!! The only reason I do them is because I can cut them while I am watching a movie with my hubby. I hate tv, but he wants me to watch movies with him. So, I cut and multi-task while watching it with him. Otherwise, I don’t know that I would do them. A recent thought I had was…..why not let my kids make their own file folder games? Draw the pictures, write the problems, write the answers, cut, glue, the whole thing…..that seems more CM style to me….but, I’m still learning!
I like your ideas, also. We love homemade clay. The other day I decided to take away all the play-do toys and make them be creative. I just handed them a big lump of clay and set the timer for 30 minutes. This sounded like it was more CM style! They amazed me! They were creating amazing sculptures! I am slowing converting my thought process….
One fun idea I thought I’d share for your pretend campfires…..have you ever made smores in the microwave? Put the marshmallow on the graham cracker…it only takes about 10-15 seconds. Watch it closely…it grows huge! Add chocolate…enjoy! Super yummy! We put up a small child’s tent in the living room, turn off all the lights, give the kids flashlights, and make smores in our microwave. We are doing the 106 days of creation study. We are studying day one-light. So, we are probably going to do that this weekend and use the flashlights to make shadows. My only problem now is that my kids like camping outside way too much! Mommy would rather be inside, but they would rather sleep outside. Maybe we’ll let Daddy sleep outside with them!
By the way, I looked at Love and Logic again. I ordered a copy from my library. They have a special edition for ADHD. My middle son (6yo) probably has ADHD, although he has never been tested. So, I thought I would see if we have any better luck with that version of the program.
Thanks for your ideas,
Jennifer
Hi Jennifer,
Its always easier to help someone else with their problem than to fix your own! When I’m done giving you an idea, see if you can help me with my unwilling child!
Have you tried some kind of reward system? I’m thinking of having a bowl of tokens of some kind (bingo chips, pennies, beans, etc.) on hand during your working-together times. Periodically (and probably a LOT while they’re getting the hang of it) you reward any good behavior you see with a token and a word of praise – “Timmy, thank you for sitting so nicely while we work.” – then right back to work. (This might be effective in correcting Johnny’s wiggles as well if he see’s Timmy’s reward for sitting still.) Then at the end of the day, they can exchange their tokens for something else – time with a favorite toy, special treat, whatever THEY find rewarding. We’re working on (so far with limited success
) a system of earning stars each day for specific things – working cheerfully, reciting a Bible verse, etc. If 20 stars are earned during the week, we’ll take a trip to McDonalds. But I think a week is too long for my 6-year-old to have to wait for the reward – when I warn that she might lose the reward, she say’s she doesn’t want to go anyway. (But I KNOW she’ll want to go when the time comes!)So now to my problem – this is my first attempt at homeschooling. Rielly is 6 years old. According to my favorite home-school officianatos (Hi, Doug and Karen!) we’ve been homeschooling her already – just exposing her to lots of things, reading to her, and following her lead. But this is our first “official” year -where I want her to do specific things, complete certain lessons (math, for example), read the books I want her to read, etc. When everyone else went off to school in September, I thought it would be a great time to start our new schedule, new expectations, new habits, etc. When she talked of going to school, I told her that Mommy was going to be her teacher and we got to learn right here. I carved a niche for her out of our family room- got a book shelf, supply drawers full of new supplies, a globe, a CD player, cork board, dry-erase board, etc. Plopped some big pillows on the floor, set up a table and chairs…everything to make a school-niche for her. She loved it so much she slept in it for 2 nights!
But to get her to “do school” on any given day is like pulling teeth. When I say it’s time to do some school work, the reply is always the same: stomping feet, a loud moan, and “I hate doing schoolwork.” I can “make” her count by 2’s, but she spits the numbers out between gritted teeth. I can get her to do her copywork, but she holds the pencil in a chenched fist and grinds out angry letters. On good days, she really seems to enjoy learning something new. But most days aren’t good days and we end up spending twice as much time on the lessons as necessary and it’s just bordering on PAINFUL!
I can “sneak” some learning in throughout the day – math-at-the-grocery-store kinds of things. But some things just have to be learned from a book while sitting at the table (math, etc.). I’m not quite sure if this is a discipline issue (she’s trying to figure out who’s boss), an attitude problem (she tells me she already knows everything!), or a matter of changing old patterns (where she could move freely from one thing to another, within certain limits). I’m also wondering if I’m asking too much of her at this age (she can handle the information intellectually, but maybe she’s physically not able to sit through it).
Maybe someone out there has had a similar problem and can share some good advice/insights with me. I sure would appreciate the help! And Jennifer, I hope wish you the best of luck with your little guys! Hang in there!
Theresa
Could I highly recommend an audio that I just listened to this week. It is called Ballistic Homeschooling.
Here is what the website says…
“Have you ever had a war break out in the midde of history or had a math lesson last three hours? Homeschooling boys can be a huge challenge for those of us raised in our feminized schools. Come hear from a mother that has taught six boys at one time from Kindergarten to 12th grade share how to turn wiggle worms into scholars and boys into real men!”
You can find it here.
Theresa-thanks for taking the time to respond. Rewards don’t seem to work very well with my children. I know that some people have luck with it, but mine don’t respond. It will make them behave for the moment, but it doesn’t address the overall behavior. AKA…..I take away the reward and the behavior is still there. Again, could just be my kids…..but, it doesn’t work with us. Now, genuine praise works great! I try to “catch” them being good! That makes improvements. My next plan of action is to try the Love and Logic Calming the Chaos. We’ll see how that works. I liked the overall premise of Love and Logic, but it didn’t work well with my son with ADHD. So, maybe that will bridge the gap.
A few thoughts on your situation….
-I use Math on the Level math curriculum. It is much more low stress than some of the other math programs I have seen. It has reduced huge amounts of stress in my house! You might check it out.
-For copywork, I have my boys write for a purpose. They write a little bit each day. Then, on Friday, they decorate it and mail it to a loved one. My 6 year old doesn’t write as much. My 7 year old writes whatever scripture we are memorizing. They try harder when they know it has a purpose.
That is all the advice I have! Obviously, I am dealing with some of the same issues! But, those are 2 changes that I’ve made that have helped. Math and copywork were our biggest struggles.
Shanna- Thanks for that link! I checked it out! Oh my goodness, I am so glad I will not have to homeschool 6 boys simultaneously! Did it have practical, everyday advice or was it just a pep talk? I am contemplating getting it, but I don’t need the pep talk. I want everyday advice that I can implement. What do you think?
Hi Jennifer,
Just wanted to say I love the idea for copy work. She’s talked a couple of times about having a pen-pal, and right away after reading your letter, a couple of homeschool friends she could write to came to mind (not to mention other relatives) and, oh, Christmas card season is coming soon – maybe we’ll have to let her do her own cards…I think this is an idea we can work with. Thanks for the idea! Hope things are coming along with your kids!
Theresa
) a system of earning stars each day for specific things – working cheerfully, reciting a Bible verse, etc. If 20 stars are earned during the week, we’ll take a trip to McDonalds. But I think a week is too long for my 6-year-old to have to wait for the reward – when I warn that she might lose the reward, she say’s she doesn’t want to go anyway. (But I KNOW she’ll want to go when the time comes!)
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