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Math-U-See with an abacus?
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Hi,
We are just starting out with our homeschooling and have narrowed down our math curriculum to Math-U-See & Rightstart. We have not used either program, only researched, but after trying to decide between the two we have decided to use MUS simply because it doesn’t involve as much teacher preparation. Not that we dont want to be as involved, but just that it may be a smoother start for us. However, we will remain open to RS (or other programs) if the children are not catching on with MUS.
We really like the c-rods manipulatives used with MUS (c-rods are also used with Miquon lab books) but we also like the abacus which is primarily used with RS. Which brings me to my questions…
1. Can the abacus be incorporated into MUS simply as an additional manipulative or is there foreseeable conflict?
2. Would adding the abacus manipulative be ‘too much’ ? That is, could this create confusion to the children?
I started my son with Miquon Math and then because that doesn’t go very high I switched to RS. He never had any difficulty’s. More than anything it may have helped him. So I don’t see any problem adding the abacus. He didn’t need the abacus for long because he started doing the numbers in his head. You might think of just adding some fun math games. That is what my son likes is the games. I don’t know if there are games with MUS.
Kim.
First of all, GREAT choices! Second of all, I love your thinking process in making this decision.
What ages are your children and what is their learning style?
My children have all done well w/ MUS. HOWEVER, since the Simply Charlotte Mason curriculum guide suggests RS, I started my 5 year old on RS this past fall. Although it requires a bit more prep for parent and an uninterrupted time slot for teaching, the benefits have been so fulfilling. A Charlotte Mason style of education enriches relationship. This is one of the fruits I have experienced in teaching RS as opposed to using MATH U SEE, especially at the younger level. (I do like MATH U SEE for the older children as they are becoming more independent learners,,,also a fruit of the Charlotte Mason approach
.)Another fruit or benefit of RS is this: my son (as well as others in my family within earshot) are getting more of an idea of how fascinating math is. RS is by far a better foundation, not to mention a bit more fun. It has been worth the extra time, which is minimal. Honestly, the time invested has reaped greater rewards.
In short, I feel that our relationship has benefited. I also see that his math skills (mathematical thinking) are far superior to what they would have been at this age had we chosen MUS.
If you can commit to RS for the younger children, do. If you can’t, MUS is a fine alternative.
We are using MUS with 2 of our children, so we use the blocks/rods, as well. But, my ds that has struggled with math needs a variety of manipulatives to work with to “get” what is being introduced. So, we have the RS games (and other supplies) and use what seems to make sense at the time.
I don’t see it conflicting with MUS as I don’t use RS’s lingo, just the games, I still allow MUS/Mr. Demme to be the primary “teacher”. But, I’ve found that I do have to “re-explain” to him often. Not because Mr. Demme doesn’t explain things well, but because this ds struggles with understading math no matter what program he uses.
BTW, MUS is a great program, but I’m thankful that there are other programs that offer something that you can “borrow” from to help our dc.
Thank you for all the insightful responses!
Our 4 children are all 5yrs and under. The oldest (who is ready for some math introduction) is a very tactile learner – she has to touch everything. We feel the other 3 are too young to identify their learning style accurately – or maybe we are just rookies and dont know how to identify them well yet.
Wendy Brown – I really like the approach to lay a firm foundation with RS and then transition to MUS as the children become more independent in their studies. We’ll be looking into that more. Also, you said…
“RS is a far better foundation”
&
“I also see that his math skills (mathematical thinking) are far superior to what they would have been at this age had we chosen MUS.”
Could you elaborate on this as someone who has used both programs? I know you listed some personal benefits you and your children have experienced, but it sounds as if there may be even more reasons…?
Off the top of my head:
We have only done 20 lessons in RS. Here are a few highlights.
1.)Learning what the numer 5 looks like. It has a “middle”. 5 items won’t appear symetrical, they are separated by a middle object. The child learns to see 5 not just count up to 5.
2.)Learning what 5 and 1 is with in the first few lessons. 5 and 2, 5 and 3, etc.
3.) Learning what parallel and perpendicual lines are.
4.) Identifying even from odd numbers because the odds have an “extra”.
5.) Learning that 2 sets of 10 are 20 (or rather 2 tens, as they prefer you teach from the beginning.) At about lesson 15, my son was multiplying by nature. Realizing that 10 tens is 100. The abacus allowed him to see it, touch it, manipulate it, build it, speak it, and show someone else.
6.) Games are simple and fun.
7.) Your younger children will be observing and as you teach/play with the oldest. They will catch on quick.
8.) The parent child interaction is priceless. Playing. Singing. Writing. Eye contact.
Keep inmind I am a rookie at teaching RS. I understand it will probably get a bit more difficult for me to teach as the levels progress. I still find it to be a much better way to start, hence the name. “Right Start”.
One more thought. One thing that drew me to this program (in addition to the fact that is is recommended by Sonya) was the fact that my oldest daughter, now age 20, went to high school with a girl who spent her younger years in a montessori school. Right Start Math is taught in most monessori schools. She excelled in math and graduated from a rigourous high school program with high honors. God put that seed in my mind. It helped me to realize that we can learn math at a young age as if it is a language rather than it being presented as one dimensional facts on a page to memorize. This will give us a greater command of math as a language.
Math U See is good for independent learners. (And busy parents.) It has manipulatives as well. For a good supplement I also like the “Key to ____” math series. I also like the website IXL.com as a supplement.
Only you will know what is best for you and for your children. You’re doing great seeking that end.
I haven’t used Math U See – but we are also doing RS – my kids are at about lesson 67 of level B… some more things I’ve seen…
Learning 4 digit addition using the abacus, including trading…. this was taught first with more physical things (base-10 cards… etc…) – my daughter called the version with the cards the “bank game”…
Right now they are learning strategies for doing math in their head… so for example, if you are adding a number with the number 9, take one from the other number to turn the 9 to a 10… So adding 6+9 – you take one from the 6 to turn it into a 5, and to turn the 9 to a 10 – and you have 15. This is really helpful for mentally adding numbers like 28+9 Another strategy is the 2-5’s strategy… used for adding two numbers more than 5… so to add 6+7.. you see how much more each number is than 5 (something they know by memory by now by using the abacus, etc) and they get 5+5+1+2=10+3=13.
There are other strategies coming up.
My kids have also figured out the concept of multiplication on the abacus, even though it hasn’t been taught…
My 6yo during the day says things like 6+7=13, right mom?
Thanks suzukimom.
How much prep work is involved for level B. How long do you “do math” during the day. How many days a week at this level?
We are also doing Level B with my 7yos and I’m constantly amazed at his grasp of numbers and ability to do mental addtion, not because he is a whizz at math, but most certainly because of RightStart and the way they teach.
I have not found there to be lots of prep work for Level B, at the beginning of starting this level, I got all the appendixes copied and filed away for when we need them. I have all the cards/manipulatives in a basket ready to go. I will try and just skim over the next lesson before we start or the night before just so I know what’s coming.
Depending on the lesson, we can spend anywhere from 20mins to an hour on a lesson. If it’s the introduction of a new concept, we’ll take it slow, keeping the lesson short. Some lessons have fun activities that are really very easy, eg. playing with the geoboards, drawing shapes, or playing card games. So, in these lessons we’ll just continue until we are finished or until I can get my son to stop!
However, if I feel he hasn’t mastered a new concept yet, we’ll ‘camp out’ on that lesson for a week, doing extra practice on the abacus, playing extra games from the Games book (another great tool if you decide not to go ahead with RS) until I’m happy for us to move on.
We do math 5 days a week but most RS moms that post on the RS group try and teach the child, not the level, so Level B & C for eg. may take longer (and usually do) than a year. There was another discussion about this topic just recently on this forum, if you search for RS, you’ll find hundreds of conversations! Sorry, I don’t know how to get back to that conversation & get you the link without losing this post
I haven’t used MUS but did look into it extensively before we found RS. To be honest I’m not sure if you will get the complete benefit of the abacus when using another program that does not teach the strategies that RS does. Not saying it can’t be done but just not sure, although supplementing with the games book may help alot as they do include the abacus too.
I like what Sonya always asks: What is your goal for your child in learning Math? My goal is to for him to really understand Math, and enjoy it, not just knowing it by rote memorisation, but to grasp it at a deeper level. I also love teaching it to him, in fact it doesn’t feel like I’m teaching at all as the lessons are fully scripted. It’s so exciting to see the light bulbs go off in his head and his delight when he answers a double digit equation in his head. I think he is a math/science child, which is where his interests lie too, so I want to be sure he will be prepared to do higher math courses for university should he so choose.
The other option is to try Level A with your 5 year old, the early lessons will probably be easy for him but you will be able to see how it works. There is a RS yahoo group RightStart@yahoogroups.com that you can also join for more information if you wish and ask about used materials as they are often being sold on the group.
We do math for 30 minutes by a timer. If we aren’t done the lesson (very rare for us) then we continue it next day. (if there is only a minute or so left of work we will go over to do it.) If we are done early, we play a math card game for the rest of the time (unless there is only a minute or so left of course.)
I try to have a math game day at least once a week – a bit more during hard concepts. So for today, we played “corners” and then played “addition war (with cards 5-9 only – to practice the 2-5’s strategy.)
Well, we have used both MUS Alpha and RS level B. We were using the RS games and AL abacus to supplement with MUS. I chose MUS because it seemed more teacher friendly, but added the RS supplement because I heard such great reviews about it. It took me many months to finally figure out that my ds7 was understanding the AL abacus where he was not understanding the MUS blocks. So we made the switch to full RS lessons and all. I have explained more of this in a recent post I made on another thread. Feel free to PM me any more questions you may have about our experience. It really depends on the child because his younger sister was tagging along and learning more from MUS than what he was; but she is advanced. Since you have 4 children; you might want to go with RS in case any of them should struggle with grasping math as my ds7 did.
http://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/math-strugglesrs-vs-switch
Thanks Noelene and the rest. Very helpful. Feeling confident in our decisions and knowing what will be expected of us as we commit to a curriculum is very helpful. Prioritizing the games, helpful. My goals for my child/children for math are the same as yours Noelene. I do feel the pressure of prepareing the older ones for the SAT test. It is such a huge thing, the results determining their acceptance to some colleges. Equipping them from the beginning (through programs like RS), HONESTLY, takes a bit of that pressure off. RS helps teach math in a way that it becomes second nature to see and think mathematically. I love that.
Another idea for the younger ones (preschool) or even a suplement for the 5 +, I purchased Gobble Up Math through Rainbow Resource. FUN, FUN, FUN! I have a 4 year old who is not ready for RS. So we have been enjoying the lessons (and eating the project) afterward. Yesterday my 4 and 5 year old made cubes out of graham crackers and peanut butter. We learned what a cube looks like, how many sides, what “volume” means. I used it as a teaching tool for the long u sound as well, showing the 5 yr. old who is a beginner reader the silent e. What “cub” looks like verse the word “cube”….the integrating of the math lesson and the reading lesson just came naturally.
Thanks again for all the feedback.
Wendy
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