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Less Details, Less Scheduling … anyone else?
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I’m sorry this post is so long! I am intrigued by all the planning and scheduling with CM. I have developed a different approach to CM and I wonder if anyone else has gone this route and might have something to share about their experiences or methods.
I don’t plan out my subjects or my days with as much detail as I see the majority of folks on here doing. I tend to generally sketch out what topics we will cover in each area for the year and then build up and expand the actual books chosen as we go along. I guess I don’t follow any of the Modules on SCM although I think that when I started out I intended to?! I do cover all the areas – Bible, History, Geography, etc. for sure and I usually do them the suggested number of times per week. How they get done each day is more of a collaboration between the three of us.
For example – We are studying American History with a pretty good amount of detail and move through our chosen books at the pace that the children set. Now, I should say both my son and daughter adore History and would probably prefer to do nothing but read stories from and about History some days, so motivation for learning isn’t an issue. But I don’t have a set number of chapters we’ll cover in a said amount of time. I seem to know that we’re moving through it well and that’s enough for me. I spontaneously grab relevent books to add to our studies as I see them or as the children’s interest peaks in a topic that has come up.
I also tend to teach multiple subjects in one lesson but I haven’t heard many of you expand on doing this – forgive me if I’ve just missed those discussions. For example our ROL might blossom into our getting our atlas and looking for the geography of said place, or grabbing the computer to listen to the sound of a loon, etc. Thus covering (or reviewing as the case may be) our Geography, our Nature Study, our Science or our History through the ROL book.
I do keep lessons short especially in Math but I don’t have any curriculum for Math and instead use the core standards for each grade and basically create the problems I need to teach what each one is studying. And we do use all sorts of narration for each subject including written narrations. I do use living books for everything. I do use different media in our studies too. Our typing lessons are online; we have a language lesson online; we practice different Math and Geography online.
We definately do not sit down at x time and work until y time. In fact just today we all sat down to talk about this topic and decided that it works best for our family if we have time for other things between lessons and around lessons. The kids said they like the model that allows everyone more freedom with the knowledge, and perhaps more importantly the responsibility, that by the end of the day our lessons are done. This does take a lot of communication between the three of us and plenty of compromise. No day looks the same at our home! And I love my SCM calendar/planner for keeping track of everything studied and done each day.
I want them to continue to grow into self learners and I feel like if I am always the one dictating the times for learning it is less likely to happen. I also want to show them that all day long they are learning through each activity that they do however small or large. This method of scheduling also leaves lots of open time for spontaneous learning and activities and explorations. I do sometimes get on the forum and wonder “Am I true to Charlotte?” but I *think* that I am just maybe in a different way.
I would love a flood of thoughts on what I’ve written. And questions too since writing it I realize it was harder to explain than I’d thought it would be.
Claire, it’s neat to read a different perspective/way of scheduling. I do have questions!
1. What are your children’s ages?
2. If they are not early learners (under 3rd grade) have you always used this child-driven method or has it developed as your children grow up?
My thoughts on your post are the following:
Yes, we let one activity cover several subjects where appropriate. Sometimes our literature covers history, geography, and science together For example we’re reading Neil Armstrong, Young Flier. While it covers the history of flight in air and in space, it has geography and details about the science of flight as well, plus counting just as literature. With that said, we still have history plans separate from science (this falls under science and is accompanying a study of the moon and astronauts). In history we’re travelling chronologically and are currently in the Middle Ages.
While your relaxed scheduling and planning works well with 2 children, I can’t see it working well at my house where there are 6 children (with #7 on the way). If I don’t take the time to plan then several things will happen:
- Someone will be missed, not be encouraged and supported in learning. Probably one of my quieter, more content children.
- I will be running different directions trying to follow everyone’s interest of the moment. There is only one of me, so that is not practical or effective.
- The baby, toddler, and preschooler will have no routine and therefore will take over the family schedule.
Now, with that said, we are giving our oldest child more independence, and plan to do so with each child as they grow. However, while they become self-directed learners they still live in our family and will have to stay within the family schedule for things we do together, such as hymns and scripture study. Their learning blocks of time will be theirs to choose what to do during, but they are expected to be productively engaged in learning during it.
They also must develop a plan of what they want to learn. Living or learning without setting goals gives them nothing to aim at, and they’ll hit nothing every time. Wandering between subjects until something more interesting comes along or something gets difficult does nothing to encourage attention, discipline, self-control, or working willingly even when the task is hard.
Well, those are my thoughts at this hour of the morning – can’t wait to learn more about your children’s ages and so on!
I have a good friend who schools like you. It works for them very well, even with her having 6 children. She does have a general personal planner though, but mainly for remembering appointments and whatnot. I am a bit jealous, because I need the lists and planning details for the most part. 🙂
Oh, and by the way, her kids are VERY much self learners.
Claire – I think we work very much in the way you describe. I love the Organizer also for the very reasons you said as well – for me it helps me see how very much we do, when our planning does not reflect that.
We don’t have a schedule that supports doing x thing on mon, y thing on thurs, each week without fail. We tend to work in blocks, I think of them as topic studies. So if we want to learn about a composer, we might spend a week or two each school day reading and listening. Then we might move on to use that time for something else.
Thanks for sharing! Nice to know that there is another ‘free spirit’ out there, and it again goes to show that the CM methods are adaptable. That is a sign of their effectiveness in promoting an atmosphere of learning (CM has some kind of saying about this but I can’t call it to mind right now).
So many planning posts lately make me wish the organizer had a social networking function LOL like goodreads – where we could follow a friends activity. It would be neat to see a stream of what everyone was doing each day as they enter it in to the organizer!
I think we generally follow the same plan as you. Last year I just had a list of books to read and I read daily at lunch (from one book until it was done then from another book until it was done) however much I could until lunch was done. We had a morning session where we did things like journal writing and devotions. Then they had a list of goal during the day to get finished on their own. For science in addition to nature study we study the scientists from the history time period: read a biography and replicate an experiment or two.
This week we have been trying to follow Charlotte’s schedual (taken from the books and things notebook). we have been enjoying it (maybe partly just because of the novelty) and getting more subjects in, and it felt sort of more energetic because we were switching subjects while the kids were still wanting more. But it does feel a bit disjointed and less natural. Also with the way we did things last year (and I think the way you do things) I liked that I never felt behind, never felt like we didn’t get to such and such today…..
Haven’t decided how we will do thinks next year. Ineresting topic.
Lindsey
Gem-It was nice to hear a similar voice this morning. I was afraid that I might open the forum to find nothing but horror at my lack of detailed, super structured learning plans. And I know what you mean about “seeing” what everyone is doing daily. I’d love that too just for the fact that I always am willing to grow and learn from different perspectives.
Free spirit!
Tristan-I can’t speak to a large family since I have only an 8 year old son and a 10 year old daughter but knowing me I can’t imagine that I’d function entirely differently with more. Believe it or not I’m very detail oriented and spent my adult working life outside the home (before family) as an statewide event planner! So while I tend not to put subjects into time squares and daily and weekly routines, I am very aware all the time of what everyone is doing and where they/we need to go.
My children attended school for their first several years. Because of this it was necessary for us to do a lot of “de-schooling” before we could all come to the table with a new, fresh, and solid approach like our love of Charlotte Mason. Schooling is very structured and IMO very very good at creating robotic responses to learning and very very poor at creating children who want to learn and then know how to go about it with purpose and diligence.
In general- I should say that our methods are not entirely “child led” since I’m creating the general yearly structure of topics we will cover. But I’m not going to force a child to learn something that they have no interest in learning either. 1) it will not happen and 2) it’s not necessary since there are so many wonderful options out there and at a later date they may find the subject they dislike now more interesting. If it is truly something that they must have in order to progress on to something else (thinking Math here) then I will find it’s practical application in life and teach it from that perspective. If there is still hesitation or frustration I will go to the next approach.
I have had to unhinged my ideas that there is only a certain list of important things to teach children – the mainstream schooling method – and to realize that if anything there is a bountiful world of delightful worthy ideas to teach children. I really believe strongly in Charlotte’s words that education is “a life, a discipline, an atmosphere” equally.
We had a more relaxed schedule when the girls were younger and in middle school I encouraged more independence with a lot of oversight from me, so by the time they got to high school, they were good at knowing what they needed to do and getting on with it – they know that as long as the work gets done and it is done well, mum will just oversee and not interfere with when they do what – I am always around for discussion and narration and for checking work – but they have the work they need to do planned out and as long as it gets done by the end of the week I do not worry. If they slack off or don’t do quality work, they know they will sacrifice time doing things they enjoy to re-do it, so they don’t often let me down. I think the main thing I wanted to instill in my children is that every minute of every day is a learning experience and they see their father and I continuing our studies which is an example I wanted to set for them too. I carry on studying European history and hubby carries on with his aerospace engineering and flying studies, even though he is now retired from flying and doing a desk job. He feels that it is advantageous to continue to stay on top of his chosen field even though he does not need to. So a learning lifestyle is very valid.
Lindsey, I know what you mean. Life is pretty tough out there without feeling like you’re behing the 8 ball in your educational efforts every day! I have adapted to this new method and been able to keep the number of subjects getting done high each day just through observance and keeping good records in my planner. If I see gaps I mentally note to plug them by the end of the week.
We school year round and all week. That may be another reason that this way works so beautifully for us. We have adopted the “life is learning, learning is life” approach so that we never feel “on” and “off” of schooling. That helps us all stay focused and rolling.
Here’s a keyhole in to my day today …
9 a.m. (we do sleep late and are slow to start, I’m embarrassed to admit it works great for us) Breakfast for them and coffee for me, a discussion of our day in general and everyone’s thoughts at the moment – we are a big, goofy sharing family! Then the kids choose what lessons they’d like to do today and which ones we will do together. My daughter choose – Independent Reading, Math, Nature Study and Copywork. My son choose – Geography, Math and Copywork. We decided together we would do History, Update our BOC and do Composer Study.
Now I’ll facilitate all of their individual work by guiding them, looking over their Math, answering questions, and listening to their narrations. I’ll also gently keep us on track by starting a group subject lesson which usually leads to their going on to their next lesson naturally.
This will take most of our day only if that is how it goes today. Some days we want to go from subject to subject so we are done before lunch and others we like to take walks in between or they like to play in between or whatever and we finish up some time in the afternoon.
Right now, as I type, they are both involved in a wonderfully creative game with a new character named Robin who has just laid a nest of eggs that will soon hatch. I think it’s a musical of some sort … I hear singing!
Before the game started they had both done their chores and my son had done his Copywork.
As I am still composing this email (slowly because I’ve stopped to do several of my own chores here and there), the kids finished that game and have come to the table for lessons – my son doing his Math and my daughter doing her Copywork/Compostiion by writing her campaign speech for 4H out in cursive. I can hear her explaining to her brother how the letters connect with cursive writing! Too sweet!!
This afternoon we will go to 4H to listen to the candidates for offices make speeches and investigate our 4H Project Books with other club members.
Dinner, other chores needed (we all do what we see needs doing for the most part without any nudging on my part), more sharing and talking with Dad about their day and lessons, Bible Study, Character/Personal Development and prayers and our day is pretty much done.
***
Now, what is your day like everyone?
Thanks for the look into your day. It sounds very much like how I would like to do things. I few questions:
1. How do your kids know what they have to do. Do you make some kind of weekly to-do list?
2. Then do you write down what they said they’d like to do for the day so you don’t forget?
3. (You did say you use the CM scheduler, right?) How do you make that work for you since you wont to doing X on Monday, Y on Tuesday every week?
Thanks
Lindsey
My system and yours I think were pretty different – I would not allow books to be read at their own pace because they could read pretty fast – I kept to CM’s idea that you should digest books slowly and in my own experience CM’s advice worked and the girls retained much more that way. I also waited until high school for them to choose how they wanted their day to go – we started training that in middle school, but not until high school did they do their own schedules. I am glad your system is working so well for you, it does appear to be a little more child delight directed than CM but whatever works for you is good – each family must do what they find works best for them. One tiny suggestion if you don’t mind – starting your day late is fine, however sooner or later children need to know that they cannot please themselves and loll around in the morning. When they need to go to classes, or start a job they will have to have learned the discipline of getting enough sleep and being able to get up and out of the house – just something to think about for the future:)) Linda
I was afraid that I might open the forum to find nothing but horror at my lack of detailed, super structured learning plans.
Horror?? Are you kidding?! I suspect a lot of us secretly wish we did not “have” to plan and schedule so much–it’s a lot of work! But, unfortunately, some of us do not function as easily without a fairly well-developed plan and/or schedule in place. It’s just how we are wired by God.
I know one thing: as much as I wanted to mostly unschool, my autistic son needs structure in place, and the easiest way for me to accomplish that is to plan and schedule. We’re not strictly regimented, though.
Sue good points, my daughter with mild CP also requires a little more structure to her day – as she can easily lose track – so that played into our way of doing things as well. Sometimes a little structure helps smooth out a day:)) Linda
Lindsey – to answer your questions …
I’m not sure I know what you mean in your first question. Our Copywork is generally taken from the living books, poet, or verse we have been studying. So that’s how they would approach that, of course they ask me too. Math builds on itself so they might practice what they have been mastering or if I know they’re ready to move on we will sit together and learn a new skill. They know what they are studying and where they need to practice. Our family subjects we do together so those I’m more in charge of pacing and directing. I am right there with them both all day. We communicate about what needs to be done.
It was the artifical nature of saying “now it’s time for x” “now it’s time for Y” that lead us to this approach. We didn’t want to feel bells ringing telling us it was time for the next subject. Especially if there was great learning/interest going on. Do you think that flies in the face of CM?
Yes, I write down everything! I use the pencil and paper calendar from SCM not the online planner. I don’t think it would work, you’re right.
Sue do you think this is unschooling? I’m curious. I think of that as being completely child driven. Want to do nothing but play video games all day for a month, go for it. That type of thing. I see this as letting them decide when they do things but still being the one at the reins of what they are studying. I do admire unschooling for the respect it gives the child’s mind and the child as a person which I think is very CM.
Linda, doesn’t that underestimate the person in the child to think they can’t or won’t be responsible later in life because they have the option to sleep later now?
I also might have lead everyone to think that this is a child centered home in which the children are dictating what is going on. Far from it! I run a tight ship. I’m just past the stages of needing to so much. I simply don’t see in Charlotte’s teachings her intention for us to create days that are so structured, so disciplined that they lack any spontaneous learning and love of life. I am trying to learn more deeply the CM ways …
HI Claire,
Just wanted to pipe in and say that you sound a lot like me! We have a so called schedule of subjects to do each day..but most of the time we go w/ the flow. If they get really interested in something, we stick w/ it. And sometimes things lead to looking up info on the internet. We also play math games sometimes as well as computer work geared towards learning math, geography, and some science. I suppose sometimes we get on rabbit trails! LOL! We get things done but in a more laid back kind of way! I don’t do x number of pgs w/ the subjects.
We also sleep later. And we get finished w/ school later in the day too! And I will get stricter when they get older w/ sleeping late. My boys do so much better w/ lots of sleep!
I guess I am not truly CM, except in using living books in subjects. And going along w/ poetry, music, and art. This is what works for us!
Have fun learning!
RE: Not seeing in Charlotte’s teachings the intention to create days that are so structured – From what I’ve read/gathered Charlotte did have very scheduled mornings but then left the entire afternoon, or nearly entire, free for spontaneous learning.
Still, I love that we can apply a method to our own individual families to find a way that works for us! I am enjoying hearing how others do CM, on all ends of the spectrum!
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