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kids going where they shouldn't
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I’m having a terrible time convincing my 7 yo and 5 yo boys (and occasionally their 2.5 yo brother) that they cannot go wherever they please and get into whatever they choose. They are constantly going downstairs, going into their sister’s room or dh’s office, going into the backyard (supposed to stay in the front yard as the back is mostly mud), getting into the pantry or fridge, and climbing on the entertainment center. They know full well they are not supposed to do any of these things without permission. I have apparently never come up with strong enough consequences to motivate them to follow the rules. What can I do to get them to stop going/getting into places they should not be?
Ahh, the quintessential question of what to do when kids don’t obey. I think we’ve all asked this in one form or another before. There are so many possibilities and different children will respond well to different ones. I’ll give you the hardest (on you) but the one I’ve had the most success with (remember, 7 boys and 2 girls here, ages 14, 11, 9, 8, 6, 5, 3, 2, 1 month, so some are obviously yet to get this lesson).
Keep them with you. All the time. When you move to a new room they follow along. They don’t play outside without your presence outside too. They don’t get to go play in their bedroom (and then wander into forbidden places because nobody is there to remind them and help them obey). Yes, this is obviously hard on you. Basically, you are on patrol all the time, keeping them within sight so you are right there to help them practice obeying the rules. (Read Sonya’s things on habits from SCM. I love how she describes it as expectant encouragement. You, by your face, attitude, and body language, can help them remember the rule and let them choose to follow it.) While doing this you can be encouraging them to work with you, play in the same room you are in, etc. After a while of this, you expand their boundaries. The key is they have to show you they can be trusted to follow the rules. If they begin to go where they are not allowed again they go back to staying in the same room as you for a few days. It’s a process. And it isn’t something that works well for toddlers (who really only vaguely understand the rules, they pretty much need to stay with you or the house needs toddler proofed so doors are locked and they don’t have the option to go where you don’t want them to).
Completely agree with Tristan. When she says “After awhile of this, you expand their boundaries..” I think she’s talking weeks not days. I parent the same way, so I’m assuming. She can clarify. 🙂
It’s not easy. Gets easier. Totally worth it.
I have been unsuccessfully trying to “tomato stake” them for 4 years and have finally accepted that that method of parenting will not work here. I have sensory issues and cannot stand having several loud, constantly moving children that close to me all the time, and I have a lot of trouble focusing as well and even having them very near does not mean that I will notice them doing something they shouldn’t or sneaking off or whatever. I have tried a bunch of times to train the toddler to sit and stay put when I’m doing something, but inevitably he gets up and I don’t notice it for a few minutes, even if he was right next to me. Very frustrating. I am tired or feeling like a failure as a parent because I cannot make this work. We do have gates (but they all climb so all they do is slow them down a bit). They are supposed to stay in the living room which is visible from the kitchen. All the places (except the backyard) where they aren’t supposed to go are accessible from either the living room or the kitchen. There has to be some way to motivate them to actually want to follow the rules, instead of doing whatever they think they can get away with. Even when I do nothing but sit and watch them I spend all my time telling them not to go all these places. It does not motivate them to not want to go there.
Can I be blunt, and I don’t mean this disrespectfully?
How would you feel as a child being confined to ONE room and asked to just sit? Toddlers don’t just sit and stay still! It’s like the focus, from what I’m reading here, is all about what they can’t do and not what they can do. Also “I have sensory issues and cannot stand having several loud, constantly moving children that close to me all the time…”, sorry, but that’s parenting. We have to have an environment that our children can be independent in with safe boundaries, that they want to be in, or we will have children wandering off, being crazy, or being just plain unhappy.
I’d take a look at your environment from a child’s perspective, observe your kids in that environment, and try to see what is going on. I’d be willing to bet that it isn’t strictly a case of disobedience.
The toddler was not expected to sit still and do nothing. He was expected to stay in one general area and play with something for 10-15 minutes. He is quite capable of doing that.
You try doing something that feels like the fingernails on a chalkboard sound to you all.day.long and see how much of that you can stand before you start having meltdowns. I cannot function if there is too much noise or movement. My brain shuts down. That does not mean my children have to be 15″ away most of the time, but it does mean I cannot handle 3 little helpers when I am doing food prep, or 3 little boys playing within 4 feet of me in our small, wood-floored, low-ceilinged kitchen.
MrsB was right, I did mean weeks before enlarging their boundaries.
Hmm, so if that isn’t an approach that is going to happen for you (and honestly, that’s totally OK!) here are a few more brainstorm ideas that may trigger ideas you can tweak for your situation:
- Install locks for rooms you don’t want them in (thinking sister’s room, for example. Not a lock for her to use when she is inside so much as a lock to use when she’s not in there to remind them to leave her room.
- Have you tried wearing earplugs, headphones, etc to help cancel some of the noise? Obviously you don’t want to be unable to hear anything, but maybe there is something that is a middle ground? Something that would dull some of the noise so it bothers you less.
- Set up a very specific routine and try to stick to it. By this, I mean a general routine that will carry the kids through their days. An example: After breakfast we do _____ at the table. Next up is ______ in the living room. Next is outside time in the front yard. When we come in we eat snack. After snack everyone plays in their own bedroom (shared bedrooms are ok, or all the kids can play in one bedroom). After that everyone is free to come back to the living room for a while. What I’m thinking with this is if you can get the routine firmly in place then the kids will get used to spending their own time not so close and noisy in the same room as you.
- Set specific days for each child to be the ‘helper’. If having several kids helping you in the kitchen is overwhelming then choose just one. The key here is to make it specific, not random, so the kids know what to expect and that they will get a turn being the helper. That gives you just one child to work with and automatically cuts the noise down for you.
- It may be worth paying to have a fence with a gate put in place that keeps the back yard off limits so the kids don’t have to think about staying in the front yard, they won’t have another option.
- A second possibility for that muddy yard is to invest in mud boots for the kids (think black rubber farm boots like you would muck stalls in, that can be hosed off when needed). Yes, clothing will still get muddy. But if you really need them to spend time outside and you don’t want to be out there or put up fencing to keep the back separate then mud may be the price you pay.
- For getting kids to WANT to obey – you’re really working with ages that aren’t ready for that so much. Some kids are naturally those who want to please others early on, but others are not. They need some maturity before they can rule their ‘wants’ (I want to go in the off limits place to play because it is fun in there). With maturity comes the possibility of choosing to obey a rule even when you don’t particularly want to. We’re the same way. Sometimes I just really want to do ______ even when it’s not what I’m supposed to do right at that moment.
I’m sorry you deal with sensory issues. Have you seen any professionals to help you find ways to cope? Because your kids don’t understand why you just want them to go somewhere else for a while or just be quiet for a while or just need them to give you space at a particular time. If they can’t SEE something they won’t understand (and your sensory issues are not see-able to them). They just don’t. Where is your husband in this? Is he able to help in any way? Sometimes that’s not an option, I know. Mine is a truck driver and doing college too. He’s gone a lot right now, or shut in the bedroom doing school work. It’s just a season but it’s a crazy one around here! I’m praying you find solutions!
I do understand sensory issues. That’s why it’s even more important to create an environment that is safe and usable for your kids, so they aren’t underfoot all day long and you get some space. But in general, they’re kids. They’re behaving like kids. They don’t understand YOUR issues, they just want to be kids and play and explore. Again, I personally don’t believe (from what you’ve described) that this is a disobedience issue – this is a kids being kids issue being exasperated by your sensory issues. And quite frankly, if the hardest part of your day is that your kids want to help you, I’d say that’s a pretty good problem to have.
As far as a possible solution, I’d look into Montessori techniques around the house to help your children become a little more independent. When they have a good environment they can use, and they can do things for themselves and have little jobs to do, it makes them feel important and useful. You don’t have to go full-fledged Montessori, but creating an environment that’s more suited for them could possibly help curb their energy that they use for trying to escape.
As a mom who also has noise / sound related sensory issues I can list a few things that have worked for me and my family (some of them may not apply to your situation). I know how hard parenting can be in this situation. I hope you will find some things to make it less painful for you and your kids in the very near future.
1 – Alarms on doors and cabinets. Locks are good for safety issues, but they are a pain when you have to find keys to go into things that are used fairly often (like the baking cabinet that has the sugar in it). I bought several door alarms at Lowe’s for about $4 a piece. They are very easy to put up (stick on) and helped my kids “remember” to obey almost immediately. We put one on the older siblings door to keep the young two out of her room, one on a cabinet in the kitchen (so I could keep treats or things not to be eaten), one on a closet and all the doors going out of my house are alarmed. The alarms making a door bell like noise.
2 – Quiet time. It was the highest priority for me. It was not negotiable. I spent all my parenting “capital” getting this one thing in place. An hour of quiet in the middle of the day is required to help me be the best mom I can be.
3 – Spend as much time as is reasonable outside. It absorbs the sounds and brings a general sense of peace. It makes so many “rules” go away. It is like magic. A nice walk in a nearby park every single day in nice weather would help us tremendously. And if we often did it after dinner when things were likely to start to “unwind” if we all stayed in the sameness of our home.
4 – I had to carefully think about the things that filled my day and make some hard choices about those that drained this same type of energy from me. There are things that I enjoy – but that tap into this same auditory sensory place and makes the noises of the kids (normal kid stuff) almost impossible for me to deal with. It is almost like I have a set amount of noises to hear each day and then I am done. So I needed to limit those things. I love music in our home and my middle daughter really enjoys it. We rarely play it and almost never in the evenings. I enjoy spending time in an added church worship service once a month – but again the noise. Dining in loud crowded restaurants (even if the food is awesome). A few examples of the things I have to limit so that I can “save” my reserve for my daily mommy duties and not be pushed over the edge by their normal kid loudness.
5 – When mine were younger and still in training for many of the habits and rhythms that are now much easier (my youngest turns “double digits” in 2 months) I had to limit the expectations I had for my time also. I had to expect to spend much of my time in “dealing” with training and loving and parenting them. If I expected to be able to spend 4 hours doing something I “needed” to get done then I was irritated when they would interrupt that time with normal kid stuff. If I expected to have 30 minutes to cook dinner and planned accordingly – things went much better. I was not the time in my life to take on things like grinding our own flour or canning fresh produce from the very large garden I also had to keep. I do realize that for many these are normal things, but for me they were not and they were not going to become such during my kids toddler years : )
6 – I was intentional about spending 20 minutes (often in two 10 minute blocks) with each kid doing just what they wanted to do and connecting with them their level. Playing baby dolls or dress up or sticking stickers all over our faces and rolling around together. 10 minutes. Each kid. Twice a day. Made a big difference. These moments of connection and focus on them and their little hearts desires really helped to balance things out. Sure I was going to make them learn to obey and do chores and follow the house structure and all that mommy stuff. But we had this time each day to get lost in their hearts desires.
We actually have locks on several doors and the pantry (hook and eye locks, not keyed locks), but they are great at finding something to stand on to unlock them, and sometimes they just get left unlocked. I can’t see the doors from the kitchen unfortunately so it’s easy for them to get away with that. I think door alarms would be VERY helpful…I’m going to try to find a few of them.
I do have earplugs, but I rarely remember to use them. Maybe I need to set them out on the counter where I can see them (and hope the 2 YO does’t get a hold of them and eat them).
They definitely do better with more structure. I am great at planning structure…not so great at actually carrying out/sticking to the plans. Need to work on that some more.
The backyard actually has a privacy fence. The neighbors’ fences are chain link and extend beyond ours, and they use those to climb the fence. Or if they’re in the backyard and want to go to the front, they use the horizontal supports on the fence to climb it. There’s other things they mess with in the backyard that they aren’t supposed to, it’s not just the mud. For a while I was making anyone who climbed the fence spend an hour sitting on the couch and that helped them “remember” not to climb it…guess I need to go back to doing that. (Not the 2 YO…he won’t climb it unless someone else does it first.)
I guess if it’s not unusual at these ages for kids not to “want” to obey, I’ll try not to feel so discouraged about it. They just seem so much more into stuff than most kids their age…I am absolutely amazed at the things I see left out at other people’s houses with similar age kids, things that would get broken or otherwise ruined in a day or less here. It’s not because these other kids are better behaved or watched super closely…apparently mine are unusually curious or destructive or something.
It might help if I told them that Mommy can’t think when you are too loud. They might not fully understand, but they should be able to understand a little bit, even if it doesn’t change their behavior.
Need to work more on connection time too. That is something I am not good at at all.
Thanks for the suggestions!
You’ve gotten some great advice already; I really identify with you and hope I can help too. I really want to second the quiet time. It helps me rest from the morning, and get through the rest of the day better, and your older boys are fully capable of reading/coloring, etc. quietly for an hour. Your littlest will be more of a challenge if he’s not napping anymore, but he can sit quietly for a little while on the couch with you, or in the same room. I would probably separate them though unless they sit by each other without talking. It’s so worth your time to train them to have that time each day, find consequences you can stick to and encouragement for them and stick with it.
I also really struggle with so many little people that make lots of noise! We have 6 children, 11 down to 3. I grew up with 2 younger brothers that were usually playing together, so I was alone a lot and liked it that way. We also were not an affectionate family so I get really claustrophobic with more than one person talking/touching me at a time and I absolutely cannot handle too many helpers in the kitchen. Choose a day where they are the special helper all day, or certain meals, etc. I also have to double the prep time if I have a helper, that way I’m not stressed or impatient with them if it takes a long time. Unfortunately, as someone mentioned, most of these things are just normal when parenting children and we have to sometimes rise above it whatever way we can. Your house may be different than others too, I know our house has a stricter definition of what counts as an “inside voice” than some of my friends’ houses. I can’t handle screaming/yelling, and I think it’s not unreasonable to expect that. I have always trained ours from a very young age to speak at an appropriate noise level, and there are consequences (after reminders) for being too loud in the house. There is plenty of time to play outside too, to get the outside voice taken care of:)
Another thing I think is great, is that your children are pretty young to be doing a lot of school, so you can use your time to focus on habit/character training right now. The issues you are dealing with won’t just get better on their own, and will make schooling even more difficult, so they really need I to be corrected now to help all of you have more peace and joy in the home.
My 3 year old is busier than any other child I’ve ever been around, has never cared for age appropriate toys, would rather investigate the oven, the fridge, the great outdoors alone, etc. He figures out a way to climb over/on top of anything, no matter the height. So he really does have to be around me all the time so I can keep an eye on him. I also know what you mean about in a second he’s gone, it is frustrating. Can you baby gate the kitchen, or area you are in so you can at least keep an eye on your youngest?
For the others, if it were me, I would sit them down and first apologize to them for not following through on rules you’ve established in the home. Let them know things need to change so you can all enjoy each other more, then make sure they understand your expectations of where they are allowed to go, and when. Make them repeat it to see if they understand, and then tell them the consequences. One idea is that if they go into a room they aren’t allowed to, they will sit in the kitchen (or wherever you are) with a timer without talking for —minutes (10 maybe?). Then if they do it again, add on time in whatever increment you want, maybe 5 or 10 more each time. I also found it very effective at that age to have them lie down for a “nap” for 15 minutes, and add on with each infraction. They didn’t like it, and it really helped with some disobedient behaviors.
Make sure you are rewarding them when they do things well, like using inside voices, not interrupting you when you are talking, not entering rooms that you’ve said not to, etc. We have a slip/tally mark system, they lose tally marks and for each set go to bed 15 minutes earlier, and at that age when they receive 20 slips they can choose a reward (1.00, pack of gum, special time out with mom/Dad, etc). It’s worked well to teach about obedience/helpfulness/kindness/unselfishness, etc.
I am also not good at the connection time, so had to work hard, and I spend at least an hour each day playing games with the ones that like that, or just listening to my chatterboxes for a set amount of time, which shows love to them. In my experience behaviors rapidly improve with quality time in their love language.
Whatever you do, do something one thing at a time, one day at a time, or you will end up one unhappy mama with some very unruly older boys!
I have a child with sensory issues, so I “get” sensory issues, but….
This may sound harsher than I intend but – you chose to have all these children in spite of your disability. So now, it is your job to find a way to adapt to them, not the other way around. It is unfair to expect them to understand your sensory issues and to be okay with being pushed away and confined. This is not to say you can’t talk to them about your sensory issues – and I think you should. But you still can’t expect them to understand.
” There has to be some way to motivate them to actually want to follow the rules, instead of doing whatever they think they can get away with. Even when I do nothing but sit and watch them I spend all my time telling them not to go all these places. It does not motivate them to not want to go there.”
I agree with others in that this is not a disobedience issue, but rather a “you have trained them to be this way” issue, because you are not (able) to look after/train them the way they need. They have learned that you don’t (can’t) pay attention and that they can get into whatever they want, and you’re not going to do much about it, because you don’t notice it. They’ve been allowed to do this for 7 & 5 years – those are very deeply ingrained habits that are not going to disappear overnight or even in months. Regardless of what you have “said” to them – your actions have taught them otherwise. And like all things in life, with children, our actions speak far louder than our words.
So, you’re likely going to need a very physical/visual way of retraining them. I would say get very visual for starters – a chart with the rules and consequences for when those rules are broken, a reward chart for following the rules, visual signs on the doors/places they’re not allowed into (“stop sign”). And, physical – You don’t sit there and say “No don’t, stay here” over and over. You tell them the rules when they enter the room and that’s it. They start to disobey – instant time out. And don’t expect them to “catch” on to the new rules instantly. It will very likely take a loooooong time.
That said – make sure you’re being realistic. At 5 & 7 years old, they are wanting and NEEDING more independence. They have to have places they are allowed to go into in their own home, without you, especially if you need the space.
For the backyard – let them go in the mud. Mud is fun. It’s messy, but… really… oh well. Kids are messy, lol. I would guarentee you let them back there, they’ll be entertained and you’ll get some peace and quiet. And to expect a 7 & 5 year old to be able to have the self-discipline to resist the mud all the time… it’s expecting too much honestly, with everything that’s been going on.
For the fridge – why are they in the fridge? Are they hungry? Make sure you’re scheduling adequate snack times. Likewise, you could also give them their own shelf in the fridge where they are free to get healthy snacks. Do up small portions in snack size baggies that they can go get when they want a quick snack. And then also give them their own shelf in the pantry/cupboard with things they can get themselves.
In a lot of this, I think you’re going to need to learn to pick your battles.
For the downstairs – why are they not allowed downstairs? Is it because they get into stuff, or because it bothers you? Where are the expected to remain? By the sounds of things, honestly, it really doesn’t sound like they’re allowed anywhere but their bedrooms? Do they have a play room? A basement room to play in? A living room they can play in? Do they have adequate outdoor toys etc… to keep them occupied in the front yard like a swing set, sand box etc… ? Try looking at WHY they want to go into their father’s office, their sister’s room, downstairs etc… see what’s motivating that, and then try and find a different way to meet that desire. Ex: say they were going into the office because they want paper, pens, etc… make sure they have those supplies available elsewhere.
For your attention issues, if you have such attention issues to the effect that you don’t notice your children wandering off getting into trouble (and on one hand, trust me, this happens to all of us at some point, lol), but when it’s a very consistent thing, then I’d say it’s best to find something that is going to MAKE you notice. I would start by having a baby monitor, or a video monitoring system so that you can see every room of the house if you have to. I would also do alarms on the doors you don’t want them to get into. Set an alarm for yourself to check on them every 5 minutes if you have to.
As for wanting to help you – well of course they do, children love to be helpers and it’s how they learn. You really need to find a way to work with this one, because discouraging them from helping you because it bothers you, is going to do damage in the long run and sends them a very negative message – that they’re not wanted and that they’re not helpful. Eventually they’ll stop trying.
I like the suggestion of trying ear plugs when they’re in the kitchen with you. Set up a basket of quiet activities they can do while you’re working – coloring books, playdoh, puzzles, etc… You’re going to have to learn to work with them in the kitchen. As far as actually physically helping you – I like the idea of having a chart so they take turns, just have one a night.
Quiet time is also a good idea. And, while Charlotte would turn in her grave, if that means you have to round them up and put a movie on for an half an hour or so, while you go do something else – so be it. It might also be a good idea to make sure that you’re getting time to yourself both a) in the morning before they get up (even if this means getting up earlier yourself) and b) in the evening once they’re in bed (and maybe you could even try pushing their bedtime just 15-30 minutes earlier to give you some extra time).
I am absolutely amazed at the things I see left out at other people’s houses with similar age kids, things that would get broken or otherwise ruined in a day or less here. It’s not because these other kids are better behaved or watched super closely…apparently mine are unusually curious or destructive or something.
I highly doubt it. What is going on unfortunately, is that by your own admission, they have a mother, who due to her disorder/sensory issues, is unable to pay attention or stay focused on them. Another thing is to make sure you’re spending very focused time with them every day. Get down and play with them, read them a book, do a puzzle together, color together etc…
My last suggestion would be to start seeking some professional help for yourself. Start working with an OT who can help you deal with your sensory issues and find coping mechanisms, that will help you deal with the ins and outs of daily life as a parent. There is a lot of help out there, and they will work with you on ways to help your organize yourself better for better attention and awareness and focus, how to work on sound sensitivities etc… Things you can do during the day to help calm yourself etc…
So while yes, the kids should work more on obeying, the majority of this is going to stem from YOU working on yourself and working on ways to adapt to your children. I think working on these things will very likely help their “behaviors”, because they’ll feel the extra attention you’re giving them, and some of it too, will be just picking battles, and being proactive about meeting some of their needs.
I can’t take constant sound, either. Quiet time saves my sanity.
And my kids won’t really climb fences, but most of them have been (or still are) electric. (We have goats!) Works wonders. 🙂
You have gotten some great comments. I have 4 kids, and all of mine have sensory issues. I understand they run in families! In reflecting on myself after my oldest got diagnosed, I realized I have some sensory issues as well. That being said, is it possible your kids have SPD as well? Have they been evaluated? Might they benefit from OT as well? My oldest is 8 now (others are 6, 4 and 4 months) and we daily deal with the sensory issues. I agree that therapy can be helpful in learning to deal with things. I also agree that outside time needs to be OK! They could have certain clothes that are outside clothes that you are OK with getting messy?
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