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Is this legalism?
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If you have time for this, I’d love advice on an issue I’m really struggling with. Friends of ours are very strict, maybe on the legalistic side. Hubby plans to talk the man and is strongly encouraging me to talk to the wife (stricter of the two). Are these issues that I have a duty as a Christian to point out to a friend? Or are they disputable issues? We’re concerned for their kids….we know people who have grown up with great Christian parents (but legalistic) and rebelled against it/Christianity as soon as able.
I’ll give some examples. Please take no offense if these are things you may do! I’m not saying they’re bad or wrong, just wondering if a culmination of them all is legalism and could possibly be harmful or not.
No snacks at small group because of heath/waste of food/kids mess. Refusing a child a piece of fruit for a snack (only veg.) Making a kid eat their throw up because they said a new food made them feel nauseated…to make point to not allow them to keep doing that for foods they don’t like. School from 8-4 everyday for 6th grade (but I think that includes lunch and running out an hr. or two for classes a couple times a week). Almost never eat out, husband believes in more moderation. Mom has lost weight going to mainly veggie diet (and works out 1 hr. per day)…so skinny fits in her very slim 12 yo’s jeans. Kids get 60 min./week video game time (of which son often loses his privileges for bad behavior).
Is this my business to say anything? They are wonderful Christian people. The mom is such a servant, loves the Lord, is affectionate with ther kids. The kids are kind, obedient, respectful, happy, creative kids. Many things in her discipline I should emulate more, so feel like who am I to say anything, I’ve got my own weaknesses! Thanks for any input on this, it’s a real struggle to know what’s right.
I was just wondering what your definition of legalism would be? Some of these things -to me, sound a bit too much but I don’t know what thier reasons are for thier rules. In our home, we try to only give our kids fruit at breakfast because of some digestion issues. Due to health reasons, they handle fruit much better when it is eaten alone.
In addition,we have a rule that our kids have to eat thier salad first before other items at dinner – if they do not do this, the salad won’t get eaten. I want my kids to eat healthy foods as much as possible so that when they become adults they won’t have a major health breakdown like I did several years ago. I think that healthy eating habits are one of the best gifts that we can give to our kids.
Also, we definitley believe in logical consequences (works extremely well for our kids) for a child’s behavior but making a kid eat thier own throw up?!
IMHO, I think that the most important way that we can keep our kids from rebelling is to tie our “heart strings” to thiers…….by spending LOTS of time with them, being interested in things that they are interested in, talking/listening, lots of realtionship cultivating…many good books on this that you could loan to this family if rebellion is a concern.
An excellent movie that addresses this topic is Heartstrings by Huemoore Productions which can be purchased at the Vision Forum website – it is a wonderful movie for kids and parents to watch together.
I always remember a quote I heard once from Josh McDowell (?) – Rules without relationship lead to rebellion.
Those are my thoughts! I hope that helps.
Warmest wishes
Alicia
Thanks, Alicia. I totally understand rules, and am pretty strict about healthy eating here. Actually, except for this friend my kids think I’m the strictest:) I think the fruit issue is sugar. Thanks for the movie recommendation! I think she does do this with her kids and I do think it’s rules AND relationship. That’s why I’m struggling as to whether this is something I should bring up or not. I’m concerned about strict rules with maybe not enough grace….but is this for me to judge/bring up? Thanks for the relationship reminders:)
the only one that would put me off is eating the puke–to me that’s too far. The rest while it may be strict, there might be reasons for. We don’t eat out much purely because it’s expensive for a family of 6. (Although we still eat out too much when we’re really busy and I don’t get around to cooking. lol)
I only have issues w/ the eating throw up. Other than that, we all have different reasons behind what we do. People think I am strange because my kids don’t drink soda, eat candy and chips, or drink milk. I have been assumed as strict too! Also, we don’t do vaccines and we homeschool. My sister even refuses to talk to me due to the last 2!! She thinks I am doing my children an injustice!
I have tried to do all veggie diet several times and have only succeded to 6 months. But I still go back to cleanse my body every once and while. My hubby and I just finished a juice fast for a wk. I am no where near being skinny though, I have health issues! I would LOVE to have the will power to work out for an hour!! We need to exercise…but not be obsessed w/ it! Such as spending hrs at the gym or thinking of only that!
I also would love to say no to Wii..only 60min per wk. As of now it is 3 times a wk for 30 minutes!! And my kids do not get to play if they have bad behaviour!
And are they really working constantly during those hrs in school? I know we work 4-4 1/2 hrs for my 9 and 61/2 yr old. That seems long to most people. But we have breaks, intrerruptions, and we have lunch in there too!
My friend does not eat out much either. This is due to their budget and for health reasons too. Most food eating out is high in calories, fat, and salt!
I don’t consider these legalistic, IMO. I understand your concerns. And hope that I haven’t tried to make light of anything..cause I don’t know if I fully know what it is that is the problem. You do see more than us and might have not listed it all! As of the puke issue, that is going too far!! Now, if they purposely gag everytime they eat and then make themselves throw up on purpose…AT THE TABLE..gross!…then they do need to be disciplined. Such as clean it up and no dinner! I have heard children making themselves gag and throw up on purpose!
Are these issues hindering your friendship? Do you see the kids going down the wrong path? Is the family following God? Do the kids respect their parents? Do you mind your children being around them? These are questions only you can answer. And I say it the family is godly, respectable, kind, loving people..then they must be doing a decent job. We all have our issues to work on! I know I soooo do!! And we all have to do what we see fit in our families. Now abuse is uncalled for. So if you think anyone is being abused, don’t hesitate to talk to them!
HTH, and hope I didn’t sound condemning towards you! 🙂
Hmmm, I don’t think I’d concider this legalism unless they are somehow telling their kids that these rules MUST be followed because it somehow relates to God. Sounds to me like rules (especially the eating the puke) that might put them off good eating when they are able to make choices on their own, but not issues that will put them off God (unless you think the parents have somehow linked the two in the kids minds)
If you choose to dicuss your concerns with the mom, I’d do it in just the way you did here. Start by telling her what she is doing right and then mention your concerns and then let her know you know she’s the mom and your not perfect either. Also she may have good reasons for things (OK except the eating puke…..– that’s the only one that would really concern me too much) so give her a chance to give her veiws too.
That’s a tough one–give it lots of prayer first.
I think making a kid eat their throw up is outright ABUSE!!!!! Anyone with me on that one????? Other than that, I think God created fruit for us to eat and it is healthly if eaten not as juice but as a whole fruit with the fiber which naturally balances out the sugar unless diabetes or pancreas problem is an issue, however, if someone wants to take another view that’s fine for them………but as far as not eating out and no TV and no snacks, that’s strict, but it’s probably crossing the line to address those issue as those are personal parenting preferences. Do the kids get other entertainment or “perks” to being a kid? Is there joy in their homelife from what you observe? My kids get offered way too much candy and junk food at church and with other family members, which I let them eat some, but not near the amount they bring home, nor do I let them eat all the junk food/candy offered to them even though the other kids’ parents don’t limit it. As a sister in Christ, it might be beneficial to address the wife’s exercise/diet if you think it is an obsession and if her weight is an idol to her, but not if she just wants to be healthy and fit w/n reason and her “skinniness” is just a result of eating healthy….but if she’s sickly looking skinny from weight obsession that’s a big concern that needs to be addressed to get at the root issue for the problem.
Just my 2cents worth (probably not worth that though, lol),
Kim
I also think making a child eat throw up is child abuse and I would report that withour hesitation. There is no reason to do that – no reason that any reasonable parent would do such a thing. As for the other things I would not go that far, but the vomit thing is child abuse pure and simple. Making a child eat vomit is asking for trouble in the future – it is not loving, it is not teaching anything but cruelty and I am horrified by that. Sorry on this one issue I would report them, I cannot abide that kind of treatment of a child. Sorry if I come across as hard, but children are to be loved and nurtured, not made to eat vomit -there is nothing remotely Godly in that kind of thing, nothing at all.
Ok — I’d just like to clarify –mostly because I can’t imagine a parent making their child eat puke — by “Throw-up” do you actually mean food that they have put in their mouth and spit right back out half chewed because they don’t like the taste — because while still gross, that’s not nearly the same as puke.
And while I do feel that perhaps they could learn to relax a little on the fruit issue, at least for certian occassions, or the snacking at small groups, it sounds like their family has adopted certain eating habits for a reason. Perhaps rather than critisize, you could simply ask if there is a health concern or other reason why they do not allow fruit. You might simply say that you are trying to instill healthy eating habits and noticed some of the habits they’ve adopted and ask what the reasoning is. I have read a Dr. OZ article explaining how fruit should always be eaten first or alone if possible, and always the whole fruit is preferred. Eaten later, fruit tends to rot in the stomach becasue it doesn’t get digested quick enough.
I also agree that it’s not legalistic unless they are somehow telling their children that this relates to their relationship with God. Yes, our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and we are called to take care of them, but doing anything — even a good thing like eating healthy and excercising — can become an idol to us if it is interferring with our relationship with God in any way. This may not be the case for these parents, but they could unknowingly be teaching their children that these things are more important that their relationship with God by placing too much emphasis on eating, exercising and being slim.
It is always best to try to understand before critisizing the way another person parents.
Thanks, ladies. I appreciate all the comments, and no offense taken!! I’m pretty strict with food most of the time, but o.k. with occasinal splurges type of mom. I don’t think that’s something for me to judge….just if it’s extremism that could cause harm. Thanks for all the food for thought. She’s a wonderful mom and lady, I think Imay just bring up that the puke was concerning to me and how it relates to other things she’s mentioned. Thanks:)
I personally would not talk to them about all that. The puke YES is way out there. But for the rest we’ll it’s a personal thing. We don’t eat between meals either to save on food and costs. I work out everyday and am a vegiatarian. (though I’m not skinny LOL)
Be careful and just maybe pick the one thing for me puke, to talk about. Maybe she even said it on a bad mood day and it sounded worse than it was? Just my thoughts
While I agree that eating fruit is good for you. And totally agree w/ eating it alone if possible. But too much fruit is not a good thing..fructose is just as bad as sugar as to what it does to the body. Like I said, too much of it! You mentioned that they are choosing veggies as a snack instead of fruit. Why is that so bad? Fruit can lead to high blood sugar. If you are concerned, you can go to http://www.mercola.com and see what he says about fruit. Yes, in moderation it is good for us! But veggies are just as good, if not better! 🙂
Why is it that people get upset when parents want to monitor their children’s eating habits choosing good food? Such as eating snacks in a group? Are we talking about cheetos and koolaid? Then my kids would not eat either! But if someone chooses to feed their kids junk all the time, no one speaks up. That seems ok. Because everyone is doing it. I am just saying that I have been put down for choosing healthy snacks and foods for my kids. They are deprived, and I am weird!!
While I agree about the throw up issue being absolutely wrong! You need to be careful because if you turn them in for abuse, the kids will automatically be taken away. Is that what is best for the kids? Or confrontation about the issue better? And like 4myboys mentioned, is it just food that was spit out? Have you observed this? Or from the child?
Lots of questions to think about and lots of prayer!
Typing at the same time as Linda and 4myboys:) She said puke or vomit or throw-up, but maybe it was half-chewed….not sure, hadn’t thought of that possibility. I agree that the other issues are personal preferences, just had been concerned that the all encompassing could be legalistic. My Life Application Bible says that when we become too worried about our every action, we become legalistic and cannot enjoy life. I think I probably need to focus on the extreme issue that is most troubling, and how that may affect other areas.
Linda, I’m not exactly sure what the child was made to eat. I understand your cause for concern. The mom really is a loving mom….I think there are just food issues that I need to discuss with her. Thanks for your concern and comments.
I’m not upset about healthy eating:) I’m an organic, REAL whole grain mostly, fruit and veggie, CSA-sharing, raw milk cheese, 100% grass-fed beef eating mom!!! I don’t want junk snacks at small group either, and neither do most of the moms. I think snacks do aid hospitality (healthy preferred), but it’s up to the host if they don’t want mess, etc. Just mentioned as an example.
If the child just spat out some food that she did not like and then the mom made her eat that – it would be different, but if it really was vomit I would be horrified. If you say the mom is loving then maybe it is chewed food, perhaps if you are going to talk to her, you could clarify that point. I do not like waste either, but forcing a child to eat something it does not like is not a battle I choose to fight, as long as they try a little I am happy – if they do not like it, I don’t force the issue. I remember when I was little my mum gave me fish, well I loathed the taste – anyway she would not let me leave the table until I ate it – so I put it in my mouth, and pretended I had eaten it. She was a bit distracted so she let me go – I ran upstairs and spat it out of the window, I know not good behavior – however in my haste I did not check to make sure it was gone. Later my mum found my aim was way off and it was all over the window!! Yes I got in trouble, but the next day I was covered in a rash and was really sick, and after much work on the part of the doctor, they found out I had a severe allergy to fish and seafood. They said had I eaten it I may have been in real trouble health wise. My mum from then on was not so strict on the food, as long as I tried a tiny bit – she was happy, and so that is what I do with my own. I try to pick my battles carefully – I want them to count and I am not going to stress every little thing. If this mom is just trying to make them eat something they partly chewed that is different, I can understand both sides of that coin, but the other possibility is just vile. Bless you for caring, but be careful – until you have full facts. Linda:)))
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