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Is it enough? Really?
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Hi!
I have been researching and trying to make decisions regarding language/writing studies. I used to do Christian Light language arts, an all inclusive (spelling, grammar, usage, handwriting, etc. etc.) I felt very secure doing this program, as it was very thourogh and covered ALL the grammar bases…We were feeling a bit bogged down, and I was unable to have the time I wanted to incorporate more CM methods, as well as time to write. I dropped it.(which felt freeing at the time, but has made me worried looking back in my anxious moments…), We then did Emma Serl for the rest of that year, then the next year started Understanding Writing for part of our week, with bits of Emma Serl, then dictation/Spelling Wisdom for a day or two of our week. (although we do copywork everyday for handwriting) Understanding Writing does not have tonnes of grammar, it is gentle. To sum it up, it is instruction for writing creative narrations of the children’s personal experiences, which for us has been fun and given us much craved for time for writing letters. For our family, having the practice of narrating the children’s experiences has been exactly what we are needing. We also put the childrens writings of our family experiences in a family journal. The lessons on grammar are simple and useful. This combined with our copywork/dictation/narration have rounded out what we are doing. I have not been worried that there is not lots of grammar as I plan to Analytical Grammar in gr. 7&8. So, in my mind, even if we were not doing Understanding Writing, and were just doing dictation/copywork/oral/written narration that would be enough….so even our Understanding Writing, even the Emma Serl series, is sort of extra to what is necessary…But as I research on here, I see that many CMers are using many different programs for Language Arts/grammar….some like this, some like that…some comments that this one was not meaty enough, this one too easy…I come away feeling like copywork/narration/dictation maybe are NOT enough and I better make sure that I too, have a ‘meaty’ LA program along with the others….I understand the time demand on us homeschooling moms, and that sometimes a program, especially a CM friendly program like Queens or First Lessons, or other options, may help simplify- (I think, but after watching the All Day Seminar, it seems simpler without any program!!!) So, I come away worried that I don’t have a ‘meaty’ enough program, and confused…is copywork/dictation/narration enough?????
Hope this makes sense, would love to hear your two cents!!!!
Thanks,
Alysia
Hi Alysia,
I’m not claiming to be an expert in this area but will share my thoughts. This is our 10th year of homeschooling and I’ve flip-flopped between LA curricula too many times. However, I’ve seen the best results with my children processing & expressing thoughts through copywork, dictation, and oral & written narration. Just the past few years I’ve (personally) come to the conclusion these ARE enough – at least through 5th grade. They build a wonderful foundation as to which we can build on. About age 10 is when we begin to supplement (where needed & if necessary), using other LA materials that fit our family & our individual children’s needs.
I understand all to well that reading forums can surely cause unease and endless searching for the perfect curriculum. I really think it boils down to prayer, deciding what works best for your family & trusting God to lead you according to what your children need. Then once you find something that works, stick with it & don’t get tossed to and fro by the “grass is greener” syndrome. It sounds like you’re doing a great job, Mamma.
God Bless!
Heather
Well, I’m going to give my opinion but that is all it is….an opinion. This has been a very confusing year for me trying to decide what kind of curriculum we need. I have read every book out there, every website and blog, tried things recommended by this person and that person, and finally had to decide for myself. 🙂
I had to consider my strengths and weaknesses and how my children best respond to certain methods. I am not naturally good a language arts (my spelling is awful, I don’t remember much about grammar, and I was not introduced to many good books in my school years) So, trying to wing it with narration, dictation and copywork was too much for ME. I need something that tells ME what to look for in their writing, how to teach grammar, how to spell things correctly…LOL!
Also, my children love to write stories on their own. Just right now, for example, we are done with “school” and they are sitting at the kitchen table working on their “books”. In all of my reading about the CM method I have rread that they should not be writing for themselves until they have read enough good books, copied good sentences, and used dictation to help with grammar. I have also read that I should not let them write things that are incorrect (spelling, punctuation, etc.) because it will “stick” in their mind and they will always wonder which way is right. However, all of the CM suggestions for curriculum put off teaching grammar until the child is in 5th or sometimes even 7th grade. So, that was aproblem for us. My kids want to write. If I limited them to just copying and summarizing, I feel like I would be taking away the fun for them. I am not going to tell my child, “No, you may not write a book for fun! You must copy something that someone else who is much smarter than you has written first.”
However, I do not want them to write incorrectly for so long that it will be hard to fix later on. So……for my children, a good grammar/writing instruction program is needed at this point, in my opinion. We still do narration and copywork in addition to our “formal instruction”.We do some worksheets and some oral lessons. I bought Christian Light but I do NOT use all of the exercises in every lesson. I mark out a lot of the review, we use something else for spelling, and I do not do the creative writing that is assigned either. I have seen improvement in their writing and usage since we started the grammar instruction. I am very careful not to overdo it with the workbooks. Using this instruction has been an encouragement to my children because they are learning things that they wanted to know how to do. I would not use things that made them hate learning. Also, I plan to use Rod & Staff next year so that we can do more orally and reuse the texts.
After saying all of that….I do not believe that you should change anything if it is working well for you. We had to find what works for us and that might be different for you and your children.
The bottom line: Use tools that you are comfortable using without smothering your children in facts and worksheets. Encourage their desire for learning and give them the instruction they need to accomplish that goal.
Just my opinion,
Amanda<!– / message –>
Thanks for your replies…they have been helpful. My oldest are 10 year old twins, then a 6, 4, 2 and an infant.One reason I think I am panicking a little is because I have more children coming up to reading age and am feeling streeetched
Thanks for the insight Heather, it is nice to hear that CM style was ‘enough’ until gr. 5 or so, then use what was needed, and thanks for the encouragement! Amanda, thank you for your response, interesting that you chose CLE for your LA. It is a good program if you are looking for systematic grammar. And worksheets do help somewhat, but oral is so much faster and less laborious, so maybe the Rod and Staff will fit the bill….:) Were you doing the CLE at grade level with your children?I am happy with what we are doing now, but do want to make sure we are doing ‘enough’…and wondering if I should be doing something else….or go back to what we were doing and tweak it….but I am thinking I will stay with what we are doing. (still stumped a little on my teaching to read…..)
Actually, if Sonya has a spare second, (or anyone elso who may know) I was wondering if on the CM curriculum guide, if English for the Thoughful Child and Junior Analytical Grammar are recommended because 1…. they are needed at those stages, 2….or are helpful at those stages as a guide if you don’t want to pull it together yourself alone because some grammar study is in fact needed somehow, or 3…. if they are recommended only for those who want ‘something’ beyond copywork/dictation/narration but they (or something else) is not necessary because the copy/dict/narr, are indeed enough until time for formal grammar? I don’t want to do Junior Analytical Grammar, and I don’t want to do EFTTC either, even though I know they are good programs. I just want to do my CM methods along with Understanding Writing, (for now at least unless I let go of it too), and hope it’s enough until we delve into deeper grammar in Gr. 7/8….
Last but not least, I was reading my Ruth Beechick books last night when I should have been sleeping, and it gave me confidence to stick with what I am doing, and try to envision my plans for the next year. Although, it’s always simpler to read and dream about what to do, then to make it actually happen in real life! The on the spot teaching is sometimes hard to imagine working in a busy house…..(oh…you need an apostrophe there…what’s an apostrophe? Well, let me tell you while I change this diaper, stir the soup and braid your sisters hair all at the same time, Ok Love??
) Can that actually work? And THAT is why I am stewing about LA!!! Oh, I hope copywork/dictation/narration are ‘enough’, with the understanding that Heather mentioned, Amanda too, that our children are all different, and we need to pray and do what is needed and what works for our own families…I am just looking for general guidelines within the CM method, knowing that we have to evaluate as we go.Thanks for the help!
Alysia
Alysia,
I chose CLE during a mid year panic attack about LA.
LOLI do not necessarily like all of it. I am just using the parts of it that I need until next year because I have bought and sold too many things and can’t do that anymore this year.
Just wanted to clarify why I am using it 🙂 I really do thing using Rod & Staff will be a better fit for us (some done orally and some done written)
I may not be the best person to try and advise someone on curriculum choices….um, I have my own mix of things that I use and they are not all CM. So take my advice with a grain of salt 🙂
Actually, if Sonya has a spare second, (or anyone elso who may know) I was wondering if on the CM curriculum guide, if English for the Thoughful Child and Junior Analytical Grammar are recommended because 1…. they are needed at those stages, 2….or are helpful at those stages as a guide if you don’t want to pull it together yourself alone because some grammar study is in fact needed somehow, or 3…. if they are recommended only for those who want ‘something’ beyond copywork/dictation/narration but they (or something else) is not necessary because the copy/dict/narr, are indeed enough until time for formal grammar?
#3 is the winner. Copywork, dictation, and narration are enough. I think the chart in the Hearing and Reading, Telling and Writing book might be helpful, Alysia. If you download the sample, you’ll see the chart around page 15, at the beginning of chapter 2.
I don’t want to do Junior Analytical Grammar, and I don’t want to do EFTTC either, even though I know they are good programs. I just want to do my CM methods along with Understanding Writing, (for now at least unless I let go of it too), and hope it’s enough until we delve into deeper grammar in Gr. 7/8….
Good! Do so with my blessing.
For what it’s worth, I didn’t start formal grammar with my DD until 7th grade. She started doing written narrations about a year before we started grammar lessons. During the first year of written narrations, I didn’t do much correcting. Now I make corrections to her written narrations, but I’m finding more spelling errors than grammar mistakes.
I have no regrets about waiting with grammar. We’ve covered most of the basic grammar now, and she’s ready for some meatier grammar lessons. I’ll need to make a decision about the next step soon.
We started Latin the same year we started formal grammar, and the two subjects go so nicely together. I’m really pleased about that.
I have been very pleased with Emma Serl’s PLL and ILL, and the Ruth Heller World of LAnguage series and just recently (though not as creative) the Brian Cleary series. The Language Lessons series is very gentle and the PLL I did mostly oral, about 75% of it. LL is CMish, gentle, yet a great introduction to these grammar areas without making your child hate them; no diagramming yet. I’ve skipped the dictation exercises and reproductions of stories in PLL. I’m all for diagramming, but not before 5th grade. They have provided instruction them on all the important areas in a gentle way (teaching things I wouldn’t have thought of, like Abbreviations for states and such) and I just reinforce it casually with occasional references. They both do copywork daily, oral narration (no written yet) and my son started Spelling Wisdom this year (once a week).
I’m happy to say that my children do not dread this subject and my son (10) has recently taken an interest in how to say sentences correctly on his own and neither mind my corrections; it’s kind of challenge for us to find the correct word combinations! I think since I didn’t shove it down their throats too soon, language is perceived in a positive light. My dd (9) enjoyed the Heller series especially. In his last year of ILL, I will bring in Meaningful Composition and after ILL, I will read Grammarland to them (or he’ll read it to himself and narrate to me) in the “7th” grade year, using Daily Warm-Ups Spelling and Grammar Level 1 for quick review of concepts, since there will be a gap that year before Our Mother Tongue. I’ve enjoyed improving my communication skills, too, but I also remember LA fondly from my own school days.
My two will also be doing Latin in their “5th” grade year which will be supportive of them in developing proper English skills.
Rachel
Thanks for the insight Heather, it is nice to hear that CM style was ‘enough’ until gr. 5 or so, then use what was needed, and thanks for the encouragement! Amanda, thank you for your response, interesting that you chose CLE for your LA. It is a good program if you are looking for systematic grammar. And worksheets do help somewhat, but oral is so much faster and less laborious, so maybe the Rod and Staff will fit the bill….:) Were you doing the CLE at grade level with your children?
) Can that actually work? And THAT is why I am stewing about LA!!! Oh, I hope copywork/dictation/narration are ‘enough’, with the understanding that Heather mentioned, Amanda too, that our children are all different, and we need to pray and do what is needed and what works for our own families…I am just looking for general guidelines within the CM method, knowing that we have to evaluate as we go.
LOL
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