This year will be our first time using the Charlotte Mason approach (just pulled out our 2nd and 5th grader from the school system). I was thrilled to find this site but it seems many people use much more than the step by step curriculum suggested. When I look at my states requirements, or at a scope and sequence, and compare it to what we would be covering with the suggested materials here, I feel like there would be a lot of gaps, particularly in Social Studies and Language Arts. After skimming through the forums here, I see many people mention they are using a History curriculum in adition to the History studies found on this site and a Language Arts curriculum instead of the suggestions in the step by step guide. While I realize a scope and sequence is based on a totally different education approach, I still worry that while they may be gaining an in depth knowledge over a period, should I be concerned about any gaps (particularly b/c the state we are moving to requires annual testing and also considering I am starting this with a 5th grader and not from the get-go as it seems designed for)? Why are most people using other curriculums if the step by step curriculum guide on this site is a complete curriculum? Does anyone use it as-is? As a newbie, I would love some feedback and guidance!
Hi Tricia! I don’t use only SCM choices but I do use Charlotte Mason methods pretty much exclusively. I’ve also spent a lot of time going through the step by step planning guide available on this website. If you follow the guide completely, I think the recommendations there are more than thorough.
Have you tried reading any of Charlotte Mason’s writings or any of the books that have been written concerning her methods? Understanding CM style language arts will help greatly. You do cover the same things, just in different ways and at different times.
As far as history (social studies), I’m not sure why you think Simply Charlotte Mason history wouldn’t be more than adequate! Your children will retain so much more from real, living books than they every could from a “social studies” textbook. Try it and see! I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Most CMers love books so will usually add in some extra books to go along with their history studies.
I’ve never used SCM for history, though it is excellent. I’m an “oldie” (just started my 20th year of hsing) and I’ve used TruthQuest History since its release in 2001. I think most of us tweak anything we’re using to make it a better fit for our individual families and children. Even Sonya says, “Teach the child, not the curriculum.” So don’t be afraid to switch things around, use different books. Even (gasp!) skip a book or a topic. (I skipped the Civil War!! I’m not worried. We will get back to it when this batch of boys are old enough to study the very complicated issues.)
Gaps? Sure you’ll have gaps. Lots of them. It’s OK. None of us can study everything. None of us are on the same schedule, even public schools of the same grade in the same school. We don’t have to test and never have but if we did, I’d still keep on with what I believe is the best for my children. I’ve seen what a CM education can do in my own children (including my 25yo engineer son) and there is nothing to compare.
I think many of us supplement or change things up based on the needs of our child or family. That’s one of the benefits of homeschooling; if something isn’t working, we can change it.
For example: this website recommends RS Math. I know that at my house, something with that many little parts would become a point of frustration, so we use something else….but it’s still Math with a CM approach.
And then sometimes a child has a huge interest in something, so we provide extra for them on that subject.
*I* have had gaps in my social studies education from ps. My dh is surprised at the many things I do not did not know. I am learning right along with my dc with living books this time, not boring, meaningless textbooks and I love history now. You might try to find out which time period your dc know the least about and start there so testing may go better.
I use the free curriculum guide here as a general guide. I started with Sonlight and still use some of their selections for readers and Explode the Code, because it works well for us. So why change it? We have had struggles with math and one of the benefits of homeschooling is being able to change curriculum anytime and find what works best for that child. “Teach the child, not the curriculum” is more important than to follow a guide to a T. But I am glad for the starting point where the guide helps me and to ensure I am covering all of the CM subjects for a rich education. We include nature study, poetry, classical music, art picture study, etc. and the add so much to the whole picture.
I have also spent much time on learning about CM methods. So any living book can be used for any subject and we are sure to use oral or written narration to ensure retention of the material learned. We create a rich learning environment with many great books and things surrounding us. Charlotte said “Education is an atmosphere, a discipline, a life”. Read more in the free ebook here:
We go on field trips to museums, festivals, and performances to bring more depth and connections to the subjects we are learning about. Did you ever read a Shakespeare play and then go see a live performance of it? How about visiting a living history museum at Williamsburg? Or seeing Lewis and Clark’s first flying machine on display at the Smithsonian? This adds so much more than reading about it in a textbook. Reading about the revolutionary or civil war? How about seeing a live re-enactment with loud cannons rumbling the ground of freedom you walk on?
Now in my 8th year of homeschooling, I now see more value in teaching good character and good habits in the younger years than acedemics. They lay the foundation for good work habits later on. If you teach a child to read and they have a love for learning, they can read to learn anything of interest.
My oldest was just tested for our state’s exit exam and he passed; his scores were well above what was needed for a passing score. For the last 2-3 years, we have not supplemented, unless you count co-op classes (which we use for core subjects or just for fun), lab classes and field trips. But each of the guides mention “supplementing” with: field trips, websites, handi-crafts, recipes, salt-dough maps, etc.
Currently, we are not using any “extras” for Language Arts or Social Studies; no writing guides, workbooks, nothing. Not that I’m against any of those, but they just didn’t make it on my top priority list these past years. Now that my oldest is going into 11th grade, he will begin a writing course and my second oldest will use a writing course, as well, for structure. I can’t think of anything else that will be added to the curriculum besides interests they have, but even then, the interests fall somewhere within the topics CM covered throughout the year/s. As a matter of fact, if we did everything as stated, I’d probably be going nutso!
Once you start putting it all together, you see that there is a lot being covered, especially if you begin foreign languages and Shakespeare at the age/grade CM did.
Thank you for all the replies! Maybe I am just too stuck in the public school way…. covering lots of different topics but not thoroughly with lots of written work. For example, the only LA suggestions on the guide here for my 2nd grader is narration, readers and copy work. Where in a scope and sequence it specifically includes spelling, phonics, grammar, punctuation, etc… Am I just to figure out my own ways to implement these things or should I assume they will come naturally through the suggested work? The science program we’ve selected (Apologia) is similar… we will be taking the entire year to go over astronomy. Where in the PS they would also be covereing plants, some biology, energy, etc… Since our state requires annual testing, I am curious/concerened how the CM approach could play out since it is done completely different and they will not have many of those topics taught that year.
Also, (as a separate concern) since this will be our first year homeschooling, my 5th grader will technically be “year 1” for our schedule in History/Geography and Science. I am wondering how that will play out long term? Will she still be on “elementary” level topics when she will be in “high school” years? At some point would I skip ahead for her so that she doesn’t miss things since she would finishing year 6 as a “10th grader” (sidetone- if someone were to start SCM History with their 1st grader, what would they use after year 6 is complete since they would still have many years of schooling left)? Our state does not give diplomas to homeschooled children so at some point we will have to transition her back into a school setting, there are some transitional/2 day schools that are Classical, but nothing CM. Would that pose an issue? I suppose if I knew I could continue the SCM schedule until they graduated, I wouldn’t have as many concerns. Are these legitimate concerns or am I failing to understand something?
Your concerns simply stem from a lack of understanding. ALL people have gaps in their education whether public, private, or homeschool. It does not matter! Think of academics falling into two categories – skill based (math, language arts) and content based (history, literature, geography, science, etc).
Skill based subjects build from foundational skills to more complex ones. The CM method requires you to trust the outcome to something completely foreign to you, but it works. A second grader does not need all of those LA topics.
Content based subjects can be learned in any order you choose. You can leave out chunks that are not important to you with the full confidence that if you teach your kids HOW to learn and to LOVE learning they can learn any content they choose life long.
Homeschool parents do not need state issued diplomas. They issue their own and that is perfectly legal and fine. I would not enroll in any type of school for the sake of a diploma. Not to mention, no one will ever ask to see it anyway.
Testing – what state are you in? What are you required to do with the scores? Regardless of the answers, do not fall into the same hole as public schools to teach to a test!!! That is a huge failure of the ps system and not one that you would want to repeat.
Check HSLDA for requirements in your state, choose the homeschool method or philosophy that resonates with you, charge forward doing what you know to be best for your kids and disregard the naysayers. You will do fine, but remember to make your homeschool your own and do not try to copy or emulate the ps system or private school system you left behind. To achieve different outcomes requires you to do things differently.
We use the guide as a starting point. I make substitutions to fit in curriculum/books we already own or that I think would be a better fit for me or the kids. We’d already been homeschooling for several years when I came across SCM, so we weren’t starting from scratch. There is nothing wrong with doing it “as is”.
As far as the scope and sequences that public schools use, many of the topics listed are things we cover through day to day discussions. For social studies, many of the topics are things like city workers, federal holidays, safety topics, etc. My kids are constantly asking about topics like these and I don’t think we need to take out school time to make sure every last one is covered.
As far as testing, I’d think as long as they had basic math and language arts/reading skills, they would be fine. However, we haven’t had to do testing, so this isn’t an area I’m familiar with. Do they even have testing on science? I only remember the 3Rs being tested on while I was in public school (many years ago). 😉
For a second grader, narration, copywork and readers are enough, especially when you break down each of those topics.
In order to give a narration, you will need to be reading books, mostly classics (or you can begin with Aesop’s Fables, or whatever you choose) to your child. If you are reading from multiple books a day (geography, literature, practice readers, poetry, character building, etc.), then you will have plenty to narrate. The narrations can be drawings or just a simple telling back (there are lots of ideas on this site) or map work, etc.
For spelling, copywork is what you’ll be using, which covers penmanship at the same time and punctuation, as well. As your child is copying, you naturally mention the quotation marks, periods, commas, capitalization, etc.
Readers will help with fluency and can be used for copywork.
When you see the whole “package” together, it really is enough, for a second grade student.
Plus, you can ask for some form of written narration on anything and will find that your child will have plenty for a portfolio if necessary.
I understand your confusion. I’ll share my opinions. Just mine so don’t read too much in to them. I’ve been at this about 6 years now and mine are 12 and 14. When you read the forum it can sometimes appear that it’s a curriculum fair – there are so many programs being reviewed and talked about on here! 🙂
Charlotte Mason is nothing like a traditional school or a traditional educational philosophy. The whole premise is different. You have to read and research and understand that first. It’s not all read alouds, tea parties and handicrafts! Nor is it all textbooks, worksheets and fill in the blanks! I have come to see it more as how we study and learn in college settings … maybe, maybe not for all majors etc. Just seems like a fairly good analogy for me anyway.
Here is my nugget for the SCM forum: Know that there are so many nuances to homeschooling in general and that many, many different families are represented on here. Some use the CM philosophy and methods as their sole education program. Others pick and choose parts of CM philosophy and methods that work for their families. And almost everyone has a different reality of what all this looks like in their home. When you browse remember that and you can pretty quickly pick up on names that use it in a way you are interested in using it and then you can sort of “follow” those folks for their ideas and posts.
History on SCM is a rotation. You could start at any module and would just rotate through them over and over until graduation. Or you might rotate through them once completely, then do a state History for a year or some other specialized History, but then start the rotation again after that was done. Each year that your child rotated through the module they would be in a different age range for living books (of course you can always and many of us do, choose your own titles just keeping with the module time range).
Language Arts in CM is an area you simply must read up on extensively to understand. It is seamlessly integrated in to the main subjects taught all year through adherence to the CM methods. You will not trust it. Most likely. Those of us used to the traditional methods find it very hard to believe it can work. Trust it. There are older moms on here who will attest to the great outcomes. However *BIG NOTE OF CAUTION* many people attempt CM and fail to see language arts progress because they are sloppy with the methods. They can seem tedious at times, or too simplistic. They are not … if done very strictly (consistently may be a better word).
Grammar and Composition (within Language Arts) are probably serious areas of concern looking at this SCM curriculum guide or even CM philosophy, right? It works. Several “parts” make this work: 1) the rich, varied, living literature 2) the methods of copywork, transcription and dictation and 3) the method of narration (oral first, then written). If done consistently these things give the student daily work on all the traditional topics covered in school under the heading language arts.
Some children struggle mightily in this area for a plethora of reasons. That, I think, is where you may see so much conversation on programs, curriculum, etc. on the SCM forum. My advice? Just breeze over those posts until they become relevant for your child. You may never need or want to choose a path other than what is laid out in the curriculum guide on SCM. Who knows?!
I think the banter on History is usually just the book lists we are all choosing. I don’t follow these posts much, but I think that most on here are using CM methods just using different book lists from different companies or web sites or such?
Fear not the well written textbook in the later years either … it exists in CM or it can exist in CM. The later years are where paths diverge a little and become a wee bit more gray with some choosing to stick solely to living books and others doing some seemingly more traditional approach and still others mixing and matching. Nothing is set in stone! Thankfully. There are good posts and resources emerging when you get to these years.
My last little tidbit … by the way I thought you asked the most intelligent question after looking at SCM! … sit and think through your goals for homeschooling, for each child, for the future and then with that solid foundation start forward. Anything you do will make more sense if you have a clear goal in mind even if over the years you tweak it – just don’t let it go entirely or you’ll be willy nilly! 😉
Please don’t read in to my post! I just meant to share what I observe and my opinions on what I observe. Obviously they could be totally wrong! I’ve gotten reprimanded on here before for being too definitive or some such?!? I’m a little paranoid now, sorry! I post and then think “oh no, who is that going to offend?” lol 🙁
It sounds like many of your questions and concerns can be addressed by learning more about what a Charlotte Mason education is, how it can work in practice, and what is meant by its methods (like narration, for example). I would encourage you to check out some of the (many!) resources SCM offers which delve into the why’s and how’s. Many of them are free, but if you have the flexibility in your budget, I’d strongly encourage buying the DVD workshop series, “Living and Learning.” It has helped me so, so much! There are also some great audio messages and ebooks on their site, and you can look through their blog series for very helpful counsel and guidance, and answers to frequently asked questions.
I don’t use everything exclusively as per the curriculum guide; as others have said, we choose from our options what is a good fit for our family. And I believe it’s there to serve you in getting started if you want it, not that you have to do it that way. I appreciate what SCM does which is exactly as their name says: they simplify the process of learning about what a Charlotte Mason education is and how you can implement it in your unique situation. I always come away from their writings or workshops not only better equipped, but with burdens lifted instead of more heaped on. I hope you are able to find what you need in, as Sally Clarkson says, your unique puzzle.
Claire, you make me smile. I too have found certain people that I “follow” on here because they often have more experience with different circumstances that are similar to mine or because they stretch me. You gave her some great advice, so quit worrying. 😉
Cindy –
I will simply echo the others, especially Christie, in their advice. To really make this effective, learn as much about the philosophy and methods that Charlotte used and taught as you can. Once you do, you can “see” the curriculum guide in a more practical way. =)
One of the best things about SCM is their generous sharing of knowledge and making a CM education applicable, doable, and enjoyable. An excellent place to start this journey is their free ebooks. Another great place to read their handbooks – those are full of Charlotte’s direct quotes about each subject. The DVD’s are wonderful for a quick immersion into the ideas, methods, and experiences of a CM education.
And as mentioned, this forum is open to anyone trying to use Charlotte Mason methods in their homeschool, even iF they also use it her methods. This forum is very open to various opinions. The results mean that you will hear about various products and resources, which might be confusing at times. But, you also get to hear the good and the bad or various opinions.
I think the SCM Products are excellent and are enough, if you work to learn CM’s methods. Your state might require State history or something too, but otherwise it is good.