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How to teach Plutarch if I myself do not understand it?
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We bravely began Plutarch’s lives today and my girls and I did enjoy it, but it was very hard. I am fine with a challenge but there were parts of the story that I was having a diffcult time understanding…….is there some sort of hand book or something that I could read ahead of time?
I am currently using AO’s guide written by Anne White, I think.
I want to make this part of our plan but I just do not feel qualified. Help!
Are you using Anne White’s guide? Which life ae you on? Where did you get your Lives? Which translator are you using?
I am in fact using Anne White’s guide from AO and that does help quite a bit. We are doing the life of Marcus Crassus. I understand a lot of it but not all of it. I do not want to give up on this. I think it is very important.
The sentence structure can be unusual and long. I’d suggest reading the passage yourself the day before and going over anything you don’t understand until it’s clear. A little research will go a long way too. I think Anne White suggests maps and such too. Those are helpful. It might just be that it takes a little more preparation on your part than other subjects. I have found that with some lives. Others not so much. Bookworm will advise better … she’s the guru on Plutarch. 😉
OK! Anne’s guide for Crassus has an edited text right in with it, and it’s the North text, so not too bad. Here are things you need for each lesson:
Anne’s notes. Vocabulary. Anne gives some, but read through the lesson yourself, underline other words you do not know, and look them up. (Do this the day before if possible.) Keep a dictionary nearby. I’d also recommend reading through yourself, personally, the roman-empire.net bio of Crassus:
http://www.roman-empire.net/republic/crassus.html
And use the study questions provided by Anne. If you can discuss these, even if you have to look back up in the text to find the answers, you are doing well. Don’t be worried if there seem to be things you don’t understand. Keep in mind that Plutarch was the king of rabbit-trails. He’ll be bopping along just fine telling you about his guy, then suddenly digress into who paid for some temple, and why, the reasons for the interpretations of divination results, why Dude X hates your guy, and how his great-grandfather won fame, crossed with info on how Spartan teenagers dressed. 🙂 I often mark the rabbit-trails with a pencil as I go so that we can get back quickly to the main idea (OK, so we can look up and remind ourselves what the main idea even WAS) before the digression.
I find it really useful to focus on what, exactly, the main message is here. There are TONS of things being thrown at you in a given Life. The most important things to keep straight are 1) what kind of person IS your guy? 2) how did his past or beliefs shape him INTO the guy he is and 3) What are the RESULTS of what kind of person your guy is? If you get THAT stuff, and can’t tell the details of how vestal virgins were chosen, then I wouldn’t sweat it. You got the meat. You may NEVER understand everything unless you devote your life to this stuff. I’m a Plutarch fan, but not even I want to do that. 🙂 Keep the Big Picture in mind and don’t worry about the rest unless someone gets fascinated by something. (My kids LOVE the explanations of where words or names came from and will often go poke around to find out if P. was right about it or not.)
If you really, truly continue to struggle, I’ve heard that some people have an easier time with the Perrin translations done by Loeb/Harvard but I didn’t myself feel that impressed. And I like having a book in hand. I think, although I can’t raise the site right now, that at least some of these are on the University of Chicago classics site. You might use them comparing with your version, but remember the words and even some of what is included will differ from what Anne was working with when she wrote her guide.
Also, get used to not “teaching” so much, as your kids get older, and fellowtravelling/cheerleading more. It’s OK if your kids figure out you don’t have all the answers. They can learn a lot from your efforts to learn as you go.
And if the above tips don’t help, and you are really struggling with a passage you can’t get and it seems to be important, cut and paste a bit in (Most of it is probably in public domain) and we will noodle over it with you. 🙂
Hi Lishie,
Nancy Kelly has posted, thus far, three parts in her Plutarch Primer at her blog, Sage Parnassus. I heard her present on Citizenship and Plutarch two years ago and it helped me immensely. Hope it helps.
Best,
Richele
We started Plutarch today as well. We are studying Marcus Crassus with Anne White’s Study guide. I found the study guide quite helpful. I read through the reading the night before and felt like that really made a difference. It helped me to review the vocabulary and get an idea of what was going on in that passage.
Another thing that helped, was not waiting until the end of the passage to narrate. We stopped 2 or 3 times during todays passage and I let them narrate. When we were done reading the passage we did the discussion questions from the study quide. Digesting small amounts at a time made it easier for my sons to take in the information and follow what was going on.
I have been following Nancy Kelly’s posts on Plutarch. They have been helpful too.
Like most of you, I have spent any number of hours reading and looking at the Plutarch tab on AO. I noticed that in the introduction to the Solon study guide, Anne suggested that people who are new to Plutarch start with Solon and Poplicola (Publicola) first because they are shorter and easier to begin with.
The following quote is from the Solon guide by Anne White on the AO site:
“In the past, we have recommended that students new to Plutarch start with Poplicola, as that study is relatively simple. In Plutarch’s pairings of Greeks with Romans, Solon and Poplicola “go together.” I have written this study and edited the text to be somewhat shorter than others I have done, and more appropriate (like Poplicola) for younger students (years 4 to 6). I think this is within the bounds of what Charlotte Mason did with her students, particularly the younger ones.”
I know that Crassus is the first listed for this year, but I plan on using the 2020-2021 year Solon/Poplicola schedule this year so that we can find our feet. I don’t think in the long run it will hurt to not use the guides in the order AO has scheduled this year if it means understanding and appreciating what we are studying. We can always jump in next year with their schedule if I chose. =)
So many jewels of wisdom here! Thanks so so much.
We read more of the life of Crassus today and it was a bit easier. It was work for all of us but such a sense on acomplishment when we finished slugging through a couple of sentences. I will definitely have adictionary on hand every time. I feel like I am actually getting an education that I never recieved.
I may post a few sentences and see if my understanding is correct – thanks, Bookworm.
And maybe we will back up to Poplicola since my girls are in years 4 and 6…….something to think about.
Thank you!
I have a question:
When we start kids out in Shakespeare, we often read a simpler version of it (Lamb, Nesbitt, etc.) and then later we read the real play. We know that the real play is richer in symbolism, theme, characters, etc. but we help the kids get their feet wet by being familiar with the story first.
Why do we do it differently for Plutarch? There are many bios available, and we come across many of these people in history studies anyway. In theory, one could read a simpler biography and then tackle the Plutarch once they know the basic storyline, like we do for Shakespeare.
But it seems that we are not supposed to do it that way. It seems that we are to go to Plutarch directly. Just curious why. Any help in this would be appreciated.
-Tanya
Tanya, in Shakespeare we are reading the story in Shakespeare to help the children follow the story when we add on all the rich language. (Actually, I do the story when the children are young, but by 14 or so I dispense with that and we just read the play. I do not think it necessary to always read the adapted story version first.)
But Plutarch is different. The very meat of Plutarch is in the character study, the study of how to be (or how NOT to be) a leader, a good citizen. Plutarch’s Lives are NOT “biographies” in any sense in which we understand the word today. The adapted children’s versions of the Lives turn them into simple little historical bios. But Plutarch is NOT read in a CM philosphy for the history. That just isn’t the point. If one were reading them for historical purposes, then I suppose the little dumbed-down stories would do. It’s quite possible to read a children’s adaptation of a Life, and then read the Plutarch Life itself, and wonder if this is the same person. All the richness, nuance and literary chiaroscuro has been stripped away and, imo, it leaves the Life “dead.” Kind of like what Great Illustrated Classics does to, say, Robinson Crusoe. Ugh.
Thank you, Bookworm, that helps explain it. I knew we were getting character studies out of it, but I thought it was also supposed to be historical biography. I appreciate the response!
ps – I love it when you post things – your wisdom and experience are sooo appreciated!!
You COULD use the children’s stories as an adjunct to your history, but since I use Story of the Greeks and Story of the Romans, so we got a lot of the same stuff in history readings, without the digressions into divination. 🙂
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