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how important are these "extras"?
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I’m feeling like DD’s school day is a little longer than I’d like it to be, and considering dropping some of the “extras” for this term. She’s in 3rd grade and it takes her 3-3.5 hours a day for her work, sometimes longer. I think that’s considered fairly normal for a 3rd grader but I feel a little overwhelmed with three younger and very active little boys too and am wondering if simplifying would be better.
Daily she does: copywork/dictation, spelling, English (A.C.E. which is time consuming but what we’re using for this year), God’s Design science (3 days/week), Saxon math, Bible reading, and memory work. We do a morning basket-type time every day with a poem, Bible story, and one read-aloud. She gets world history here. Then she has daily assigned reading. This is:
Monday–Dinosaurs by Design and On the Back of the North Wind
Tuesday–This Country of Ours and The Jungle Book
Weds–Am. history go-along and Wheel on the School
Thurs–no assigned reading but a drawing lessonIt would shorten her day a little if I either dropped one assigned reading thing per day, or moved most of it to Friday which is a very light day (only a math quiz and memory work quoting). I’m not really liking doing world and US history at the same time but we’ve been doing it for almost 1.5 years and are supposed to finish both books this year and I’m not sure I should drop one now.
Personally I’d drop doing so much language arts rather than extras. My DS is in 2nd grade and for LA he does daily copywork and oral narration. Then he has a weekly rotating writing assignment. The copywork and writing assignment take maybe 20-30 minutes or so. Charlotte Mason recommends waiting on spelling and formal grammar until children are older….age 10 I believe?
Also, how much does she do independently, if any? Can you capitalize on her “independent work” to spend time with the littles?
caedmyn, I am feeling that way about our school day, too.
My oldest (5th grade, 10yo) is doing (these are her “independent” things) CLE Lang. Arts (workbook approach), CLE Math (workbook), handwriting, Sequential Spelling (on a good day!), piano practice (again, on a good day!)
We do science, history, music appreciation, artist study, poetry, sign language, read-alouds, etc. together as time permits. We try to do science and history every day. Read-Alouds, Bible memory are also every day (on good days!). The others (the extras) are as time permits.
I’ve lately been thinking about having her just do two pages (instead of the normal 4 – 5) of her Lang. Arts…. My thinking is that the concepts she’s learning will come around again (and again and again) in future years. Also, she’s exposed to quality literature (both by her own reading and by our family read-alouds and by our family listening to books). So, would it really be so bad for her to be “behind” by a half year or more in Lang. Arts??? Also, I’m good at Lang. Arts, so I can correct and explain most of the grammatical concepts, help her write good sentences, etc. I’m thinking that if I lighten the Lang. Art. workbook load, I can assign her more verbal and written (and other types?) narrations. (And draw in necessary Lang. Arts concepts as needed.)
I’m not ready to have her start only doing 1/2 lessons in math, but I’m starting to think on that, too. She seems to need consistent math work, rather than quantity math work – and right now, it seems that we’re too busy to get to math every day, so she’s forgetting how to do things and getting frustrated. (It frustrates me, too.)
I also have a 3rd grader, a 1st grader, and a K running around, too. And trying to work one-on-one with them and keep the 5th grader going is really difficult!
So, you’re not alone! And my only suggestion is to perhaps cut the Lang. Arts load. It sounds like your daughter is exposed to lots of good literature already.
My DD is in 3rd grade. I would condense the read alouds and focus on one book until finished. My DD prefers to read one book, to completion, before starting another.
It takes her about 2.5 hours, but she is pretty speedy and does not get distracted, LOL. She knows if she gets her work done quickly and does a good job she gets to play while little brother naps which is more fun than school.
You could also break up morning basket and move some to lunch time or even bed time. We do Bible before bed. It is a good way for the kids to relax before bedtime.
You could also do one poem a week, not daily. Condense Bible Reading and Bible Story, just do one not both. Is the read aloud during morning basket have to do with school, or extra? I do read alouds usually after lunch while the kids color or similar at the table.
She does almost everything independently or mostly independently. I just check her work, help her where needed, write the answers for her science as she dictates them to me, and occasionally do a little teaching with the Saxon math (we don’t do it the way it’s written), plus her spelling quiz once a week and dictation once a week. The morning basket is school/devotions…if it doesn’t get done first thing it probably won’t get done at all.
She does get distracted easily, so that is part of why it takes so long. The only language arts I could cut would be the copywork/dictation, and that only takes about 5 minutes a day. If we homeschool again next year I’ll likely choose something else for grammar but she may go back to school and the A.C.E. English is what she was using in school so we want her to be able to go back into where she would have been if we hadn’t homeschooled this year. I know it’s not very CM but it is what it is for this year.
NEVER drop the “extras” from a Charlotte Mason education. It’s like eating vanilla your whole life and wondering why everyone with chocolate, peppermint, rocky road, strawberry, black cherry, cookies and cream, etc. is having more fun.
When in doubt DROP purchased, canned curriculum and shift to lots and lots of wonderful living books, rich literature, fantastic stories and characters who pop out of the pages! Dive in and learn the parts of speech in these locations. Jump off the deep end and explore vocabulary and master spelling at the able hands of these authors. Write with these characters, talk to them, take them on another adventure via cartooning or drawing them in narration.
I am so sorry, this response has nothing to do with the question above…..I can’t see where to post a NEW question on the new discussion format? Can you point it out for me please?
Kellywright006 – page 2 of this thread
https://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/welcome-to-the-new-forum/page/2/#post-221444 Doug tells how to start a new thread“To start a new thread you have to go the forum topic you want first. You’ll see the forums all listed in the section at the bottom of the forum home page. Once you’re there, you’ll have a form to post at the bottom of the page. We will be making this easier and more like the old forums.”
I’ve been thinking more about this – what to cut from a school day – and I think Claire is right. It’s the poetry, the singing of hymns and folksongs, the enjoying of rich literature and stories, the looking at art and the listening to great music that really make a day good.
We don’t need (rather, I – I need to practice this!) to get bogged down by doing all of the good stuff every day. I try to read one poem each week, and each of my children have a goal to memorize 3 poems this school year……that’s being revised to learning 2 poems this year (we’re running out of school year! *L*). And as I look back over the 3 years that I’ve been trying to do things the CM way, my girls can enjoy simply listening to poetry and reading poetry sometimes…..they each have favorite poems now! The trick is getting them to listen to something new :).
Perhaps you can pare down some of the extras, but I think eliminating them will really make life dull. Perhaps removing or changing her reading schedule will give you more time…..or changing the “rhythm” of your days.
I hope some others chime in – because we struggle with this at our house, too…..especially this time of year. I’m thinking that writing Christmas Cards is going to count for Lang. Arts and penmanship!!! 🙂
In a CM education, the “extras” are NOT extra. They are vital to the entire philosophy and the methods. I completely agree with Claire.
I know each family is different with different needs, but I would look at how much time is spent on each subject…she is doing both spelling and dictation. Technically those are supposed to accomplish the same thing, so maybe you could drop one or the other. Can you use a timer? It was hard for us at first to use one because it seemed wrong to stop so arbitrarily, but has been so beneficial to getting to all the extras that – as Karen said, make the day be “good”. It also helps my children with wandering attention spans to remember to stay focused.
I guess I am wondering *how many* extras she really needs each term. She reads a ton and almost all of our books are living books (we do have some good -quality but not really living books like Happy Hollisters and Black Stallion books) so she’s already being exposed to plenty of good literature. Do she really need one literature RA plus three other assigned literature books in a term? Maybe I should save some for summer or let her listen to them as audiobooks instead. I’m not sure if the history go-alongs are really necessary either. We have lots of COFA and various other kids’ history stories and she’s as likely to read those as anything else in her free time.
I also have a dd in 3rd grade, plus a preschool boy, a toddler boy, and I’m due in 7 weeks! I understand the feeling that it’s imperative to simplify for everyone’s sanity. I’ve tried to find a balance between knowing that there are seasons of life where getting the 3Rs done is an actual accomplishment that should not be looked down on, and knowing that I could easily justify that season for the next 4 years! 🙂
I’ll just share what we currently do. I feel it is a good balance for us, time and content wise.
Independent work:
Memory work – 5 min to simply read/recite the following which are photocopied or printed out and in her binder so she can quickly flip through the pages
- her chosen poem (Lewis Carroll this year)
- the countries learned so far on her map (Visits to Europe)
- skip counting sets learned so far (MUS Gamma)
Math – 10-15 min on average to do one MUS Gamma worksheet or test
Reading – 15-20 min to read one chapter of either a Lit book, History book, or free choice book (the Lit books I picked are challenging, the History at level, the free choice slightly below level Lit type books)
Copywork – 5-15 min to do one lesson of A Reason for Handwriting C (the first 3 lessons are only 3-5 words, the 4th and 5th are writing an entire scripture verse so it really varies how long it takes but I think the switching up actually works well for her)
Total: 35-55 min
Family (mom led) Work:
Devotion – 5 min
Scripture Memory – 5 min
History Reading – 15-30 min using Truthquest Rome guide
Fine Arts Loop – 10 min – one of the following (kids pick each day what they are in the mood for)
- Picture Study
- Music Study
- Folk Songs (toddler’s favorite subject!)
- Hymns
Literature Read Aloud – 15? min – one chapter, one book at a time till it’s done (I try to pick books ds5 will enjoy also)
Others Loop – 30? min – one of the following (sometimes kids pick, sometimes I pick, this one can take a while which is why it’s last in the day)
- Math Games from RightStart
- Handicrafts
- Art
- Geography (Visits to Europe)
- Science (AIG God’s Design for Life)
- Nature Study
Total: ~ 1 hr 30 min give or take a bit
Other mom led work: (often during nap time!)
All About Spelling with dd8 – 10-20 min
All About Reading with ds5 – 10-20 min
Total: 20-40 min
This is the first time we’ve done “loops” and everyone really enjoys it. It helps us vary the parts of brain and body used as we go through our school work. It also lets me relax about fitting in all the various subjects. Sometimes we’re just not in the mood for Geography, sometimes we pick it 4 or 5 days in a row. We hardly do nature study or Science (plants this year) during our WI winter but enjoy long hikes and trips to the park in spring and summer. By letting the kids pick which fine arts subject to do, I discovered that ds5 really enjoys classical music!
Anyway, it works for us right now. I hope that it’s helpful to see what someone else in the same boat is doing. 🙂
It seems you aren’t referring to picture study, composer study, nature study, etc. as the extras, but rather more books in the main topic areas of history and literature. My suggestion is to simplify until you have peace. Keep what others are referring to as extras (composer, poet, hymn, etc.) as these are not extra in a CM education, but are central. Drop however many readings you need to drop until you’re at peace. Feel free to make a free reading list to compile all of the other books your daughter reads. This year, I have fewer assigned reads with narrations for history and literature, but I made long list of Free Reading choices for the kids. They can choose whatever from that list (switching up genre) and aren’t required to narrate or anything. They do usually tell me about what they’re reading anyway. However, this has worked very well for us, esp. ds10. He likes the freedom to pick and choose some things and go at his own pace.
Blessings as you figure it out!
Christe
I guess we’re not really very CM then, because picture study is never going to happen here. Music study/hymns consists of sporadically listening to a hymn CD or classical music. Poems get read, but I’ve never attempted to study a poet. Nature study might happen 5 or 6 times a year, aside from whatever bugs they catch during the summer. I gave up on scheduling handicrafts…they never got done when they were schedule to…and DD just does them whenever she’s in the mood, which is usually about once a week.
For history my DS7 reads a lot of history books on his own too. So I do about 15 minutes or so all together (from Truthquest) and then he has a history assigned reading twice a week. Then I just make sure to request some other books from the list for him to choose from during afternoon rest time.
Things like picture study are so easy! We just spend 5 minutes once a week as part of our morning basket. We listen to our composer in the background while we eat lunch. We start our morning basket time by singing a hymn until we all know it. Nature study I am not great about, but we just have a general appreciation for nature and make entries in their journals when it comes up.
For right now I find I do better with just “do the next thing” and we get to what we get to. We have a lit book going, and we just read a bit and when we finish the lit book, we read another one. I have an idea of what books we’ll read this year, but if we don’t, they will just roll over to next year. We are also taking turns with geography and science. We did a Twins book for geography, then spent a couple weeks doing lessons from Outdoor Secrets. Then when we had a natural break (after pumpkins/leaves) we switched back to geography. REmember it’s the big picture that you want your kids exposed to, not daily! A lot of people have readings once a week, but my kids do better reading something daily until we are done. See what works!
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