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help! with bad attitudes
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I have 2 ds 7 and 5 and we have been doing CM style from the “beginning”, we’ve done read alouds, nature study, music in the background, bible etc. since they were small as part of our day.. Anyway. Lately, the last few weeks, I am finding that I am coming up against much reticence for anything that isn’t a story from both of them, esp the 7 yr old. It is the same bad attitude I had and mostly got away with when I was that age, where I didn’t want to do anything I didn’t want to do (aka, “you can’t make me” which is true, one can’t be forced to learn or write, etc), or if I thought it was a waste of time, or couldn’t do perfectly or easily I wouldn’t do it. And so had to tackle a give-up attitude as a young adult. Help!
These are the areas we are struggling in:
Math lessons are getting shorter and shorter and sometimes with ds7 refusal to apply himself or participate, doesn’t happen that day at all (less than 5-10 min, even with a game) Using Math on the Level, it is very hands on and no busy work.
Copywork (I only ask for a word or two from a poem/hymn in a little book I made, sometimes they like it and do a whole page)
Scripture memory (refuse to say what they know out loud and clearly 1/2 the time)
Hymn study isn’t happening at all this year so far, after enjoying Hymns for a Kids Heart by Tada last year, but was unable to get a new book this year. Most hymns online we can’t sing with.
Nature notebooking (5yr old enjoys taping in things, coloring, etc, the 7 yr old won’t even try to sketch, paint, or color because it won’t look exactly like real life, like the picture, and you can only tape in, do rubbings for so many objects)
Beg. Reading lessons – at first were going so well, and have gone thru about half of book 1 All About Spelling (I love it because it is easy to teach, multisensory.. I break up the lessons to keep it within 10 min, and am not rushing. and what do you know? they both can read short words and sentences. But now both of them roll around on the floor, roll their eyes, move the tiles with their toes, refuse to come when it’s their turn for our lesson, refuse to try. It is exasperating. So I set it all aside for a couple weeks, only doing reading practice with little books a sentence here and there (which they don’t want to do for some reason) and word cards every other day. Happened again today.
Don’t get me wrong, we all enjoy most of our days, they are learning a lot in the other lit. based areas and are very creative and industrious with their free time. And I think I do a pretty darn good job of keeping lessons short, interesting, varied and I mix it up so they are not sitting still for long periods of time, alternating brain usage:)
But ideas for combating this attitude please? I have told them, we do what we have to do to be able to do what we want to do. and “Feel free to go play as soon as this is done…” (I hate to do this though, don’t want them to stop trying even more and hate anything other than read-alouds). Tonight, the sad news is coming that bedtime is now without more stories, playtime etc. since they wore Mommy out by not trying and not obeying with lessons today. So so sad. And that is how I can get my energy back, which is true!
With kids that are yoing like yours, my inclination is that this is a phase and that you should be able with some effort to snap them out of it. I suspect that they are getting some kind of pay-off for this behavior. Maybe in the form of making their sibling laugh? I think withholding bedtime stories because they wore mommy out was an excellent idea. I also think they shouldn’t get to play until their math or whatever it is is done. But I do think if you concentrate on the habit-training in this area for a while and reman very consistent and calm that you should be able to lick this problem.
Good luck
Nebby
I don’t require any school from a 5yo – so I’d concentrate on the 7yo (and for the 5yo, concentrating on not being a distraction.
Thank you Nebby! Yes, I think with some effort we should return back to smooth and easy days. I don’t require much from the 5 1/2 yr old, but he wants to “do school” too so I do most things with both. It becomes a distraction if I let the 5 yr old go out and play before we’re done. Also, letting them do legos, color etc. during read alouds and only occasionally starting to ask for narrations from the 7 1/2 yr old.
I agree, the 5 yr. old doesn’t need much, but there needs to be specific things for him to do while the 7 yr. old is working as the 5 yr. old’s attention span is going to go away quickly and take the 7 yr. old with him. I agree that sending outside to play probably isn’t helpful, so he needs to be doing something constructive. The 7 yr. old needs to know that your expectations for him are different than for the 5 yr. old. They will always be doing different levels of work.
I agree with Nebby that they are receiving benefits from this behavior: you mentioned that you’re shorting math and some days none at all and you set aside the reading; so they have gotten their way.
This is what I would do (my dd was/is a handful so I’ve had some experience with this):
put up a chart that shows what is on the schedule that day and allow the 7 yr. old to check it off as you finish these things. That way there’s the expectations clearly on the wall and you’re developing a sense of accomplishment-so vital.
Reinforce your authority. It sounds like they’ve worn it down a bit and you need to reassert that you’re their mom adn teacher and that there are consequences for misbehaving. 10 min. isn’t too much to ask from a 7 yr. old. They can decide not to learn, but there are consequences for being disobedient and one doesn’t have the right to interfere with another’s learning. All they want to do is play and though that may be natural, it’s not good for their character training. Plus, “school” is their job, so if they are going to refuse to do it and do it to best of their ability, then physical labor is a good, real-life consequence. Especially for boys.
For math, I’d make it clear to the 5 yr. old that he may participate, but once he starts behaving__ then this is what will happen. You can’t allow the distraction. He’s old enough to occupy himself for 10 min.
What does the “refuse to apply himself” mean for MOTL?
If this were happening at Scripture memory, if they are refusing, then that’s defiance. That’s dealt with swiftly around here. If they can write well enough, they’d end up writing the verses they aren’t doing their best on several times. Do you do it before or after breakfast? Perhaps if it’s bad enough and nothing else works, then not giving them breakfast until they do their verses. They are controlling things right now by doing what you say they are doing.
To be honest, since he is currently determining what and when they do then, for Copywork, I wouldn’t let them do more than they are told. If they want to write in their free time, fine; but they are to do those sentences you give adn that’s it. This is about whose in charge, IMO. They are to do what YOU decide.While the 7 yr. old is writing, stand there and stop him, with praises and a pleasant voice, as soon as he is finished with his assignment. He’ll fuss, since he wants to do the easy stuff. Then immediately move to a new subject.
Reading: well, here I would’ve given spankings along time ago in addition to other practical steps. Get off the floor and onto a table if he can’t handle being on the floor. Again, you use the word “refuse” a couple of times. That’s flat out defiance and is dealt with seriously here. If you don’t now, then it won’t get better. They don’t have to agree with it, understand the purpose or anything. That’s not their job to figure out whether it’s a useful subject-they actually dont’ have that capability to make that judgement, yet.
If it helps to set an egg timer to so he knows the time frame you’re giving to work within.
He’s going to resist narrations because it’s hard work, but like with anything, just because it’s hard doesn’t mean anything.
Reading aloud to you or with you by the 7 yr. old should be expected by him that that’s what ya’ll do daily. Once you get the 7 yr. old in line with this, the 5 yr. old will be easier, I’m assuming. How is the 7 yr. old getting away with not doing this? Perhaps do this when dad gets home for a while until it becomes a regular expectation.
Taking away playtime, natural consequences when work isn’t done, spankings (if you do this) for flat-out defiance and disobedience; more chores. If he’s not going to do his schoolwork there is no play, no games (not even math games), no video games-if that’s an option, no tv; and make him do physical labor.
Also, make him accountable to dad when he gets home. He needs to hear from dad that dad expects him to respect his momma and do his best work while he’s away. You may even have to have him show his “work” to dad to maintain a type of accountability. He also should have to tell dad what he didn’t do: like the refusals to obey mommy. You and your husband can come up with appropriate consequences or dad just verbally gives his approval for whatever you did.
HTH; hang in there. This “phase” could lead to far worse “phases” later on so it’s vital to nip-it-in-the-bud!
I ditto Rachel here. Obedience is the first and most important habit, and the child refusing to do school work isn’t an option.
We do have moments with my 6 year old when he gets into a funk and struggles through his work. In our house, it is usually because:
1. Child (or Mommy) is stressed or tired and having difficulty concentrating
2. Getting into a rut where the work isn’t interesting
3. Plain old resistence and sometimes laziness!
It took my 6 year old son a full two years to learn to read – not because he couldn’t do it mentally, but because he wouldn’t sit still for 15 minutes at a time! Our first lessons were hilarious…up, down, sometimes laying on the ground, then back to the chair, and try again! And these were five minute lessons!
We started doing some basic callestenics before Bible lessons and that helped, but mostly we just gradually increased the time at lessons, and, yes, he was sometimes disciplined for refusing to work. Today he worked for 45 minutes through and told me school is his favorite part of the day…so hang in there!
Do make it clear to your little ones that you are the parent, and that learning and doing their best is mandatory. If you don’t have Laying Down the Rails, I would highly recommend that. It really helps to lay down the attitudes and habits of attention and obedience while they are little.
I could have written your post! My boys are 3, 5 and 7 years and while things are better now than they were a few months ago, school time can be a struggle for my 7 year old.
I tried something different this week. I purchased a $5 gift card to an ice cream shop and taped it to the wall above his desk with three paper stars. Each time he was being really difficult, I took a star and if we got to the end, he would lose the card. Instead, he lost one star on Monday and was a dear the rest of the week. Not a single complaint out of him!
I’m going to do it again this week– maybe something less expensive but equally flashy like a candy bar. This isn’t a long term solution but it pulled us out of a tight spot.
Update: Well things are going better, I knew it would, I just was at my end that week! I switched things up so I and ds weren’t so tired of routine, and just stuck to my guns for the rest. Any rolling of the eyes, saying I’m too tired, I can’t, etc. well, it makes me tired and so he can take a break in his room till I have my energy back. That’s worked well. Just knowing I have a plan in place to deal with it if/when it does happen really helps with my frustration. We do spank but not very often anymore, there’s usually no need, and consequences seem to work better at this stage now. Hopefully, we’ll work thru it and move on, and I’ll figure out how to school different levels at the same time with what works for us.
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