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Grammar
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Okay, so here’s another question . . .
Grammar. I’m not real sure where to go with it right now. My oldest DD will be in the 4th grade next year. Last year she did Queen’s LL for the Very Young 1 & 2, this year she will finish Queen’s LL for the Elementary Child 1 & 2. We have really enjoyed the gentle introduction that this has given her. But, we are ready to move on to something else.
So, I’ve looked at Jr. Analytical Grammar, Daily Grammar, and something I looked at a few months ago and can’t remember the name but someone on here mentioned it and it starts in grade 3. Anyone know what that would’ve been?
Then I decided to look at the curriculum guide on here and SCM doesn’t even recommend grammar in 4th grade.
So, basically, I don’t know where to go. Any recommendations of what to use and why? Or not to use? Or, is it really okay to just skip grammar next year with her? That sounds nice, too!! =)
Thank you, in advance!!
We used Emma Serl’s Primary Language Lessons for 1-3rd grade and Emma Serl’s Intermidiate Language Lessons for 4 – 6. We take it slower than they recommend, and my oldest has really enjoyed this series. (my 7 yo is still on primary language lessons). It’s still gentle, but it is a step up from introduction. There is a lot of composition, learning to outline, poetry memorization, letter writing, dictation, along with more formal grammer lessons on things like verbs and nouns and such.
I don’t know how it compares to Queens, so maybe someone who has used both can chime in. Here in NY, grammer is required every year, so we have to do it every year, but if it isn’t required in your state, I think a year off sounds nice!
My soon-to-be 5th grader has done EFTTC 1 and will complete 2 by the end of our school year. I am seriously thinking that I need to focus on oral narration (fine tune using the steps Sonya is outlining in the blog), written narrations, and studied dictation (he’s a pretty good speller and we’ve never used a program), penmanship, and good literature. I’m thinking of using Study Island’s online program to hit some standards (we have to) and just talk about them as he works through the lessons.
I’m considering all of this because I don’t really want to do JAG w/ him, yet, he’s just not ready for it, and after reading up on some Lang. Arts CM style, I feel as if I had put the cart before the horse. Having used anything outside of what CM suggests has not really proven itself to have been necessary. I would’ve rather spent that time on oral narrations, Ruth Heller’s books, studied dictation, etc.
EFTTC is very gentle and hasn’t harmed him, but I would’ve rather spent that time elsewhere.
Gotta go…I may need to explain more of what I plan to do, but I don’t have the time right now.
I would focus on oral and written narrations, prepared dictation moving to dictation with Spelling Wisdom, and mabye Grammarland for 10 min every other day or KISS Grammar for 10 min a day, if you feel led to incorporate more grammar. We used LLLO1-3, LLVY1-2, and PLL but now we focus on copywork, dictation (SW), narrations, and Grammarland moving into KISS once we finish with that, but always polishing and cultivating narration and dictation skills.
I’m so glad you ladies are discussing the big picture of all that language arts entails! Parts of speech/grammar is just one small part and can easily be covered in a short amount of time when the student is good and ready to tackle it. A complete language arts program for a 4th grader would include
- Oral narration and beginning to introduce some written narration as ready
- Prepared dictation for spelling
- Good literature
- Poetry
- Shakespeare
- Introduction to parts of speech if desired (can wait until later!)
It seems like introducing written narration and prepared dictation could be enough challenge for one year, but as always, do what fits your student best. Teach the student, not the curriculum.
Written narrations are something else I’ve been trying to figure out. I don’t personally think that her oral narrations are that great. But, sometimes I tend to be a perfectionist. Sometimes it seems like I have to dig information out of her and then she gets mad and then the whole day is ruined!! But, besides all that, she really struggles with reading. Because she struggles so with reading, her spelling is horrible. We can learn a word and then a week later she is spelling it wrong. Sometimes leaving out all vowels or adding in letters that make no sense to even try or sometimes just phonetically spelled. We have been doing All About Spelling, but as a whole I wonder if it is really helping. She likes to write, but to try and figure out what she wrote can be a chore sometimes. I’ve been concerned that written narrations will just be overwhelming and frustrating. Should I even start written narrations? Sometimes I really feel like adding much for her will overwhelm her and be too much but then I wonder if I am just letting her get by without doing enough.
My younger DD is advanced and its easy to want to give her more than is age appropriate just because she gets it and tends to want to do it. I often feel like my younger is getting a better education because I can hand her books to read and will be able to have write narrations, etc.
Although my ds will technically be in the 5th grade I plan to do what Sonya has shared. I feel, at least for this child, that the time we spent on a grammar program would’ve been best spent in fine tuning his oral narrations. He has sooo much to say but just needs time to organize it better (sometimes its just wonderful, honestly) and I need to give him that time/instruction to do so. He loves lang. arts (he’s pretty much a studious type of kid) and loves all of its components and I need to help him get what he wants to say organized, then on paper. If I spend that time on a grammar program I will lose that time on these foundations of a CM lang. arts program. My ds asks enough questions throughout the day, enjoys Mad Libs, etc., to not have to worry about a formal grammar program.
Of course this is a picture of this particular ds of mine. I plan to do the same w/ my younger ds when the time comes.
Now my oldest (8th grader) has already used parts of JAG and Easy Grammar Plus. I need to give him a break from a “program” as well and let him work on written narrations, his oral narrations are already pretty good. He needs to fine tune his written narrations, continue spelling/dictation (he has put more focus on the words and I can really tell the difference in his spelling), literature, Shakespeare, already reads poetry (almost) daily, and reading aloud (important to me). He is using Write w/ the Best for a writing program that I’d like to finish, and maybe use something next year as a help to us, not sure on that one yet.
Sorry, got OT there on the older boy
.We use KISS grammar which can be started around 3rd grade. It is free online. ( see my post on it here: http://lettersfromnebby.wordpress.com/tag/kiss).
I don’t think you need to start written narrations yet. To transition, you could write her narrations as she dictates or record them.
I also dont think you should be pulling details out of her. The whole point of narration is for the child to tell what they know. I struggle with this myself but there should be little prompting from you.
Her narrations tend to be “He went there and saw her.” So I end up asking who was he, where did he go and who was she. I’ve tried telling her that she has to tell me so I’ll understand what she means if I’d never before read or heard about it. Her narrations aren’t always like that but the ones that I’m trying to get more info from her are like that.
Pangit,
It seems as if your dd is still struggling with the mechanics of writing. If that is the situation, written narrations would be torture. How is copywork going for her?
Copywork is fine. She can write very nicely (when not in a rush). But, since she struggles to read, she has no clue what she is copying unless read to her first. I figured written narration would be torture for both of us, so wasn’t really planning to do that next year, but wasn’t totally sure what to do. I don’t want to just let everything slide.
Maybe I should skip a grammar program and instead spend extra time doing oral narrations and typing them out for her. Maybe if I tell her she is going to give them to Daddy when he gets home she will be more detailed and descriptive. It does seem a bit silly to tell someone all about what they just read to you!! So, maybe giving to someone else who wasn’t with us during class will help.
Does that sound good? Sound like enough? I am still planning on her doing copywork, but maybe not every day next year. We will be reading together and continuing to work with he reading. I have really wondered what to do with her spelling and if it is just a waste of time until she is reading better. I think she is visual dyslexic and that really makes things tough for her. I am also planning to introduce typing.
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