Gentle?

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  • amandajhilburn
    Participant

    I do not want anyone to take this the wrong way…it is just a question. 

    Why is it that everything has to be done gently in the CM method? I don’t quite understand that idea. I was under the impression that CM taught things that were deep and thorough….really digging into subjects. That does not seem very gentle to me. LOL…

    I want my children to be hard workers and do their best. I do not want them to be overwhelmed or pushed beyond their levels, but I don’t see why everything has to be done gently either. It makes it sound like we are having to tip toe around our kids so that we do not give them things that are hard to do. Just wondering where this idea fits into CM’s teaching method.

    Amanda 🙂

    http://teachthemdiligently-amanda.blogspot.com/

    swtonscrappn
    Participant

    I never got the idea that we are tip-toeing around the children to get things done according to the Charlotte Mason method.  To me its more of the biblical concept of not exasperating our children.  (See Ephesians 6:4 and Colossians 3:21)  I have a sinful habit of getting easily agitated because things are not going to MY plan.  I want things to be over and done with so I can let my own sinful laziness be fed.  It takes perserverence and involvement on my part to make lessons joyful, so the children can enjoy the learning process.  I can stand back and be a demanding task mistress (and sometimes their sinful responses need that) or I can go forward with excitement so they can see that excitement in their hard work.

    Confession here:  I can really rag on my kids sometimes. It seems to be my “go to” discipline method (that Im working hard to change).   Sadly, Ive been hearing my voice, words, and tone coming out of my oldest daughter’s mouth (10 years) and I DO NOT LIKE IT ONE BIT!   Its demeaning, rude, and upity…and I know its my fault.  She’s reflecting my attitude onto her brother and sister.  And Im not even talking about the times when I need to speak to them sternly…this is def. a nagging, irritated voice. One I tend to use too often.   My prayer during this last school year has been to become a more gentle mother, the one CM referred to. God wants me to accept and embrace my children as they learn and not let my own agenda get in the way.

    LOL…obviously this has been something Ive been dealing with 🙂  So those are my own thoughts on the subject from my experiences this year.

    cedargirl
    Participant

    I suppose it depends on the way you view “gentleness”. I take my lead from the fruit of the Spirit. God’s gentleness is not weak. it gets the job done with out being rude, demanding,fluffy, gimmicky, flashy, forced or abrupt. His gentleness is firm, truthful, loving, perfectly timed (indicating it is planned for) and is good, so good. Isn’t that what we are striving for? The way we deliver our lessons, how we choose our books, how we don’t force our own thoughts on them but let the children form their own relationship with knowledge? No predigested smatterings of information in gimmicky packaging, no mindless fluff, no loud forceful cramming it in. That is how I see gentleness playing a pivotal role in our home school atmosphere. That is the kind of gentleness that brings the joy, adventure, wonder, truth, and goodness to the education of my children. What a fine thing to embrace. -tania

    Sue
    Participant

    @Tania, you are so right–gentleness does not equal weakness.  I forget that, sometimes, too.  Before I read your post, I was pondering Amanda’s question and having a bit of trouble coming up with a quick, concrete answer (even though I knew in my heart that there was a good answer).  Often, I think of all of the “hoops” that many schools seem to jump through just to try to motivate kids and cause them to want to learn.  All too frequently, those tactics fall short.  Those methods can actually tiptoe around the child for of abandonment of learning on the part of the child.

    @Swtonscrappn, I can identify with hearing my own less than grace-filled voice coming from my 13yo dd, and the words you used to describe her tone and vocabulary are well-chosen.  I have been working on that for nearly two years in earnest, but I know there is more work to be done in me.  Unfortunately, the prior years of hearing me raising my voice, using sarcasm, overreacting–all have had a negative part in shaping her personality and choices. So now, I mostly pray for a teachable spirit in her so I can work toward changing this in her.

    I suppose what I long for most and so seldom seem to find in my home is an atmosphere of gentleness, peace, joy.  These are all fruit of the Spirit, so it is entirely possible to achieve this atmosphere to a greater degree.  When I think of the opposite of gentleness, I don’t think of weakness.  I picture something that is harsh, even oppressive.  I believe it was that type of teaching method that Charlotte Mason was encouraging us to avoid.

    Bookworm
    Participant

    Amanda, I kind of have issues with the whole “gentle” business too, and I also think it sort of depends on how “gentle” is interpreted.  Charlotte’s students did very serious work, and lots of it.  I think where “gentleness” comes in is that her method fits children better, takes better account of who children are and how they learn.  I do believe that learning via CM method is much less frustrating to most children than many other methods. Instead of fighting against a child’s nature, it works WITH children’s natures.  But I do get very frustrated with the idea that “CM education” is tea parties and crumpets and letting little children do what they want, and this is a VERY common misconception about CM, I believe.  I grind my teeth when I hear people say “CM is good and gentle and sweet for LITTLE children, but you have to switch to something else (like classical, etc.) for older children.”   AAAARGH!!!  That is SO not true!  I think Charlotte expected a GREAT DEAL out of children, and so do I.  A general rundown of the books Charlotte used and the page counts per year would stagger a lot of current CM educators.  I give my kids VERY hard things to do, and sometimes they even get frustrated, but they are often glad later.  OK, there are a few things we haven’t yet heard the “Oh, I’m so glad you made me do this” yet, but I have faith it’s coming.  My kids read heavy serious books, spend hours on sophisticated math equations, translate Cicero passages, and write papers in French.  They struggle through long poems, do time-intensive titration experiments, and memorize tons of information.  I expect hard things and they do them.  Life is NOT all reading nice novels on the couch and having tea.  It wasn’t in  Charlotte’s training school, either, and we as CM educators should be demonstrating this to the world to counteract the tea-and-crumpets crowd.  Sorry to keep harping on the tea.  LOL  It’s unintentional really but I have a hard time finding other words to express the very mistaken “conventional wisdom” about CM. 

    Tanya
    Participant

    Bookworm:  I hear your frustration about people thinking that CM is for younger children only.  I am one of the few CMers in my area, and when people ask me about my homeschooling and I tell them about CM, they look at me as if I’m somewhat “slow”, smile and say, “that’s so nice for your age children…enjoy it while you can.  Soon, they’ll need to be doing so much more.”  It feels very condescending. 

    I wonder if people think that shorter lessons, good literature, nature study, etc. equal a “fun” day that has no academic worth.  They’re wrong of course, but I guess they’re comparing it to the traditional school system?

    I went to a CM school in the UK from age 5 – 11 years and I can tell you it was not easy. We worked very hard and had lots read to us and read lots ourselves as we got older and had to narrate. Our nature studies each afternoon around the village where I lived was very genteel and lovely, however the notebooks we were expected to do were detailed and our teacher expected exemplary work. PE was rigerous and we had to try the things we were not keen on as well. We had singing, foreign language, cooking, needlework and of course the math and other subjects. The formal lessons took place in the morning from 9-12, then we had lunch and then in the afternoon we had PE and nature study – the nature study was outside rain or shine wind or snow and we were expected to pay strict attention to all we saw, make notes, sketches and then make up our notebooks back in school. Our teachers were kind but firm and expected the best from us, if we were not doing our best our parents were brought in to talk to. In those days if your parents came into school it mattered and we pulled our socks up and got back on track. So no – gentle is not meaning no hard work, no discipline and tea and fancies- oh no not at all. Linda

    I think this is a really interesting thread……I have always loved the term “gentle” as a description of the CM method but this thread made me stop and really think about it.

    Swtonscrapin- I really liked your insight into how gentleness should really be applied first of all to ourselves and our attitudes, so true.

    Cedargirl- I also really appreciate your thoughts on the fruit of the spirit and gentleness not being the equivalent of weakness or indulgence. Very well said.

    So it seems like taking the above comments into consideration gentleness is a principle that we’ll want to apply to all our years of schooling and even our whole lives. Having said that I do think there is a special aspect to the gentle approach of CM with regards to very young children. The idea of delaying any formal lessons until 6, short lessons, small amounts of copywork in the beginning built up slowly over the years, lots of outdoor time, etc.

    Before I had settled on homeschooling I did a tour of a very well respected local Christian Pre-K program. Although they did plenty of “fun” preschool type activities I was really surprised at the amount of academic type activities they had built into the Pre-K year. The director explained that kids these days are expected to go into kindergarten with a base a knowledge that is much greater then kids in years past. I love that CM eases the kids in so gently.

    My other thought has to do with what Bookworm and some others were saying. While I certainly can understand that it would be frustrating to have your academics questioned by others (i haven’t run into that yet but I’m only one year in) I don’t understand the pressure to prove that we are as strenuous as other systems. Obviously I expect a certain amount of achievement from my children by the time they are done with homeschooling. And I believe that we will have to help them overcome weakness in certain subjects whether they like it or not.

    But having said that I do believe that our (or at least my) daily schedule with CM looks very different then say a family homeschooling with the a more strenuous classical method, and I love it! I quite unapologetically believe is spending hours on the sofa enjoying a good book and having tea parties (or coffee parties if I get my say :o), letting my kids have time outside, giving them free play time to act out their history lessons, and time to explore their own interests and passions.

    All of this is what drew me to CM, quality academics in a gentle way. Here’s to a gentle homeschool journey! :o)

    Thanks again for all of the food for thought ladies!

    RobinP
    Participant

    Bookworm, I agree with you completely!!  I get SO FRUSTRATED about this myth of a CM education.  It is VERY strenuous and top-notch.  The students themselves were responsible for their knowledge.  That said, it doesn’t mean it’s stressful, although it can be at times, which is not always bad either. 

    I’ve had so many moms say the same thing…it’s great for young children but sooner or later you have to get to “real school.”  I agree that CM had an understanding of the nature of children that is missing in current culture.  And because of that, her methods fit children of all walks of life.  But what she expected of her students blows me away and I’m often intimidated by the sheer volume of material her students were able to, not only “get through,” but own for themselves.  Amazing.

    amandajhilburn
    Participant

    Thank you all for your comments. I do think that the CM method helps children learn on a different level. I love the way we are learning together!

    However, the word “gentle” has oftentimes made me feel guilty for expecting more from my children. I had the wrong idea of what this really means in the CM method. I too was thinking about tea and crumpets! I mean…just type the word gentle in the search engine of this forum and see how many posts have the word in them. Gentle math, gentle language arts, gentle EVERYTHING!! LOL!! I have often thought, “How on earth do you ‘gently teach multiplication facts’ or habit training?” I do not condone any conduct from the teacher that is not in line with the fruit of the Spirit, but discipline is a big part of Charlotte Mason’s teachings 🙂

    In my opinion, a misunderstanding of this one word could be detrimental to a child’s education. Hope this thread has been as helpful to others as it has been to me.

    Amanda

    Bookworm
    Participant

    Ladyofthehouse,

    I don’t think of what I’m doing as trying to prove that CM is as strenuous as something else, but I also don’t feel we ought to really aspire to the mantle of “CM” if we are not expecting THE VERY BEST out of our children.  THE VERY BEST.  Anything less is not CM.  CM learning is a joy because it is REAL learning.  But it ought to be REAL learning.  It’s not frippery, not intellectual twinkies, not mental junk food, not a pass on effort.  CM learning will take into account the specific abilities of each child–but if you read Charlotte’s writings carefully, you will see that she had more than a sneaking suspicion that most children were capable of more than was being asked of them.  So too are most of ours.  Charlotte expected of children things that our current culture doesn’t even expect of members of Congress–that they learn to control their impulses, subjugate their wills, display their true characters, work their hardest, do what they ought and not what they ought not, read heavy books and remember things out of them at the end of the term–without “cramming”, etc.  She expected children to enjoy their books, but to enjoy them because mental effort and learning are truly satisfying, NOT because they are always “fun”.  I like “fun” as much as anyone, but it isn’t “fun” to be an adult who cannot control him or herself, who cannot pay strict attention to something, who knows nothing of value, who cannot apply him or herself to the necessary tasks at hand, who cannot show courage or integrity because he has none—we need to remember what we are aiming at, and remember also that ONLY reading on the couch and having tea parties is exceedingly unlikely to turn out adults of that caliber. 

    Rachel White
    Participant

    Amanda, perhaps if you kept in mind the context of the time period in which she wrote; the contrast of her ideas and the type of education that was in existence at that time, then maybe the use of the word “gentle” makes more sense?

    Rachel

    sheraz
    Participant

    I thought too that maybe the gentle part that appealed to me was the living book vs. the cram this date into your head for the test thing.  I expect my girls to know it and relate it to something meaningful.  This year has been delightful in seeing them free themselves from the stress of flunking the test to seeing them say, “oh, yes…we read a book about that.  It was cool how…. did whatever”.  For all its gentleness, I think CM is actually more demanding a curriculum than any “regular” school because it involves the children way more, and keeps us moms hopping to continue to supply the “feast” of ideas.  I know that I do way more researching and “teaching” this way than I did with an “all you need to teach your child is in this box…” curriculum.  =)  (OK, I admit that I spend lots of time on the computer…)  My mom was just saying yesterday how much she enjoyed talking to my 11dd about Egypt.  Mom was totally impressed by how much dd knew.  We haven’t even completed our study, but she read one living book and loved it.  So, for me, it is enough to be gentle yet thorough, gentle yet excited, gentle yet firm.  It works if given enough time.  It gives me time to ease our way into the whole thing, so I as the teacher do not have to get so overwhelmed as we put it all into practice – I would call that gentle too. =)

    I really enjoyed the comments of Bookworm.  I have had people get that “look” when I tell them that I am doing CM – then they tell me that they have to do Thomas Jefferson or that they are training their child to go to graduate school.  I still kinda prickle up thinking about it, but again, most of the time the people who comment are the most ignorant of what CM is.  And, I have a long ways to go before I would feel absolutely confident about wearing the mantle, so to speak, but it is my goal. =) 

    amandajhilburn
    Participant

    Maybe we should say: give your definition of gentle in this context. I still do not really know what you all mean by the word. LOL

    Amanda

    Bookworm,

    Thanks for your response. This has been an interesting thread :o)

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