Name: Great Homeschool Conventions (Columbus)
Start: 2025-04-24T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-04-26T23:59:59-05:00
Location: Columbus, OH

This topic has 15 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 3 months ago by simple home.

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November 21, 2011 at 2:43 pm
pbjmom
Member
Hi! This is my first year homeschooling my dd/5th grade & ds/2nd grade. I started the Genesis – Dueteronomy because I liked the idea of starting history at the beginning and combining historical events with Biblical. My daughter is doing well with it, but my son just isn’t retaining any knowledge from it. He seems to have a hard time getting anything that’s oral. I’ve tried shortening the time before having them re-tell it back to me – just a paragraph or so, but he struggles with it, and seems to tune out as soon as I start reading anything.
I’ve been using the additional books (got the Oxford Ancient History from the library) to supplement it, but I just feel like he’s missing so much of the information, and if I follow this series, he won’t go through them again, since we’d just continue each year through the present, so I worry that he’ll miss so much with not hearing the stories over and over each year. I just don’t know what to do.
I had to drop the Apologia Science that I was so looking forward to doing with them because I was getting so frustrated and since he’s a little behind in reading, the amount of writing in the regular notebooking journal was too difficult for him.
I am overwhelmed. I love the philosophy of Charlotte Mason, but am wondering if I need to do something different because it doesn’t seem to be working. Any suggestions would be so appreciated – thanks!
~Amy
November 21, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Sara B.
Participant
Narration is HARD to do. He will take a couple of years, probably, just learning how to do it. We started CM a couple of years ago, and my oldest dd (now 8yo) is just starting to get good at it. My 7yo is still just so-so.
As you go through the modules, you’ll work them twice throughout their entire school career. So your son will get all these books (and more) again in like 8th grade or so.
I don’t have any advice for you for Apologia. We also had to drop it this year because it was a little over my 2nd grader’s head, and my 3rd grader also wasn’t enjoying it. We are going to try again in the spring, maybe even with a different book. For now we are just reading living books and doing lots of nature study, which my kids are enjoying.
November 21, 2011 at 3:53 pm
my3boys
Participant
I agree with Sara B., narration is hard. It’s hard for the parent and the child to get accustomed to that way of showing comprehension. It’s been hard/challenging for us to really get into a solid habit of it and that’s been after “doing” narration for at least 2 years. I have found that there are books that are both hard and easy to narrate, which can be frustrating. One day they do a great job and the next not so good, but overall it takes practice and lots of it. Maybe your 2nd grader can start with Aesop fables or easy readers (that he can read for himself) and narrate from those for practice. My 9yo does better at narration when he reads to himself, but I also want him to be able to listen and be able to retain as well. We’re practicing.
After having done narration with my kids for quite a while now, and it’s getting better each and every day, I would never go back to fill-in-the-blanks. I know fill-in-the-blanks have a place and can be used for fun and such, but for our day to day studies, narration is it. I can really “see” my kids working things out in their minds and I’m so proud of them for working so hard.
My only suggestion to you right now is, be patient with yourself and your kids. We have been homeschooling for over 5 years and I have never really felt like my kids were learning how I wanted them to before CM.
I don’t have any advice regarding the Apologia. My 9yo is doing Swimming Creatures right now, but he loves sea creatures, and really wanted to do this book. There are so many other science programs out there that may be more appealing to your dc and that are CM friendly.
HTH
November 21, 2011 at 6:01 pm
Wings2fly
Participant
Which Apologia book are you doing? The Astronomy is supposed to be the easiest, but we have not done that one yet. We have done half of Zoo 2 on Swimming Creatures and dc enjoy that one. We used it with a lapbook activity, which we followed after oral narrations. They also make Jr. notebooks, which may be more at your son’s level.
November 21, 2011 at 8:22 pm
pbjmom
Member
Thanks for all your replies! We have been learning about the pyramids in history, and the supplemental materials have been good. I have to maybe look at history with the Bible as separate from history and do more with it. We are working on memory work in addition to the history/geo/Bible, but haven’t been doing additional stories, so not sure how to make sure they get a good Bible background.
We were doing the zoology 3 because my son LOVES animals, so I thought we’d touch on the classification since that’s what they were missing by not doing 1 or 2 before, and start with what they both, but esp my son love. Well, the reading/narration killed that – we got halfway into the 2nd chapter – that’s all. The jr notebooking wasn’t out this summer when I ordered it, and I wish I had done that, but am not about to throw $25 away, so figured I’d put it on hold for now and hopefully come back to it. So now I have no idea what to do with science. They want to do experiments and learn different things, but I have no idea what to do now, and not much of a budget to work with anymore.
I can try working on the narration with easy readers or Aesop’s fables with him and see if that helps. He does love stories – it’s the factual information that cause his eyes to glaze over.
It’s been an adjustment to do school differently for them than they’ve been used to, and trying to change their expectations that school doesn’t have to be worksheet after worksheet. But then I start to doubt myself, and get overwhelmed with the whole Charlotte Mason method and wondering if I’m doing enough for them to learn.
Thanks for all your suggestions – I appreciate it! 🙂
~Amy
November 21, 2011 at 8:57 pm
Wings2fly
Participant
Check the library for some general science experiment books for that age and spend time outdoors when you can and talking about the changing seasons and what the animals do. There are many living books for science that your library may have or you may be able to find free online. Here is one free nature resource, but I have not used it much. Someone on here recommended it: http://www.enature.com
Another link I got off here, but have not used: http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/gatty/parables/parables.html
And yet another:
http://oldfashionededucation.com/science.htm
If you make a new thread with a title specific to your science request, I’m sure you’ll get more suggestions.
Although it can be argued how CM it is, we have also enjoyed the free lapbooks on http://www.homeschoolshare.com and you can select the topic, many are science and animals. Many of those books they use are at the library. We did snakes and giraffes after a zoo trip one time.
November 21, 2011 at 9:11 pm
Sara B.
Participant
AmblesideOnline.org has some different science books with experiments, too, if you want to check them out. It would be listed under whatever year your son would be in. 2nd grade would probably be Year 1 or 2, depending on his reading level and comprehension level if you read aloud to him. (Maybe I should take my own advice! LOL)
November 21, 2011 at 11:09 pm
sheraz
Participant
Amy, I have a 5th grade dd that I started hs about 18 months ago. She went to PS for 4 years before I brought her home. She glazed over for so long when I started, even after having several months off. I found that at first if I let her draw a picture of what I read, while I was reading it, then had her expalin the picture I got a pretty decent narration from her. It wasn’t always detailed, and it wasn’t always long, but they were narrations. Then I would do one with them. Then we would do small portions where I did ask pointed questions, even if they were fill-in-the-blank ones, so I knew they were listening. It has taken me this long to start getting what I consider to be “real narration” – details from the beginning, and how it all fits together in her mind. It is hard! It is the one thing I was most worried about with a CM education, honestly, because it isn’t on a paper as proof we did something today. (lol) But after my experience, I no longer question its value.
There are several things that you can do to help your son’s narration abilities – have him orally narrate a fable. In the Mod 1 stuff, have him draw a picture of the story and tell you about it, write a name on a paper and have him listen for that name so he can tell you who it was and what they did. Have them act it out, have him draw comic strips with the story, a timeline he can make in a notebook for himself maybe helpful as a way to see it as well. Sonya and the others have a wonderful alternative narration page: http://simplycharlottemason.com/timesavers/narration/ I have to admit that the first part of Mod 1 dragged a bit for me, but I finally got into it further, and we are enjoying it very much. My dds beg me to keep reading the books chosen. We couldn’t wait to find out what happened to Hatshepsut today, so skipped ahead of the lesson plan. lol
I found some awesome books that have fabulous pictures of the places we are reading about in The Pharoahs of Ancient Egypt and it helps my daughters to focus on those and imagine what I am reading about.    You might be able to borrow it:  One of the best used books I got was called “Ancient Egypt” ISBN 0-681-32324-8 We love how the information and the pictures in here bring the subjects of the lessons alive. (In fact, I like the info in here better then in the Oxford for the Egyptian stuff). I have found pages to cover each subject so far. I found it used for $20. You might see if there are simple reading books about Egypt that you can assign to him to read – even early readers have lots of info them to get started.
For science and geting the facts out and enjoying them, have him read some of the Thorton Burgess books. They have really helped my dd – as she observes things in Nature Study she will comment that “that’s what Sammy Jay did in the book” or which ever character.   Nature Dvd’s also are fun and can be used for Narration. My rule is choose one plant/animal/mineral and give me 5 things (since he’s 5 grade age) you know about it after the dvd. I also use notebooking pages for that – it is a little more organized and my kids love to illustrate that list. =) There are tons of experiment books at the library, usually as well.
106 Days of Science is a fun one, The more we use it the more I like it. It is not expensive so might be an option for him. It would probably work very well for all of you. =)
CM methods work and narration is probably the hardest skill to acquire in the beginning for both you and your son. =) Give it more time – (and, if you think that he is missing the history, this is the best place for him to practice the skills. Then when he is more modern times, he will be much more proficient in narration/retention, lol) All that to say, I am starting see the results of being patient with it, and am happy with the results. =)
November 22, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Wings2fly
Participant
Those are some great narration tips Sheraz shared. I am still working on improving narration with my ds7, but it is getting better with more practice. I think it is age 6 when Charlotte Mason recommended beginnig narration and it takes a while for them to master it. I do want to point out that in the Burgess books, Mother Nature is referred to instead of Creator God. As a read aloud, you can easily substitute the words, but as a reader, I think the child needs to be well rooted in an understanding of Creator God first. The Burgess books are on http://oldfashionededucation.com/science.htm More discussion on this thread here: http://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/burgess-books-what-about-all-of-the-talk-of-mother-nature
Another thought, after reading your original post, is that maybe you are doing or expecting too much. “*I* was getting so frustrated…” I learned after a while of homeschooling that if I did everything by the book, it frustrated me (which my dc could sense and then it would frustrate all of us). So I had to learn how to use the resources in ways that fit my family. You don’t have to do any of the notebook journals or lapbooks with the Apologia books. You can sell your notebook journal on ebay or homeschoolclassifieds.com. My ds7 would not be able to handle the notebook journal at this point. And I cannot read/do any more than 3 pages at a time. We have enjoyed many of the experiments and “Try This” sections and would do one of those once a week on Fridays. We have also found some Planet Earth coloring books at the local dollar store and I try to find a related animal for him to color after I read sometimes. You don’t have to do the chapters in order. I have the Zoo 3 book, but we went straight to the dinosaurs chapter when I first got it in (ds7 LOVES dinosaurs), then we put it on the shelf to do more chapters in later. You don’t have to do the whole book all at once. If there is a term he doesn’t know, help him look it up. We also did a few chapters in Zoo 1 on Insects (chapt. 10 and 11 I think) this summer when they were into all the insects outside, but have not done any of the previous chapters. In the beginning each book, the author says this is okay to do to meet your family’s needs. Is there a favorite animal in Zoo 3 that you could skip ahead and read about and then go back to other chapters?
Also, there is an Apologia Yahoo group you could join. The author is on it, too.
November 22, 2011 at 7:54 pm
pbjmom
Member
re the zoology – I never even THOUGHT about doing the chapters out of order! That’s a great idea! Will check out the yahoo group as well.
Thanks so much all of you for all the good narration ideas and other suggestions – all GREAT ideas that are helping me as I process what to do. I will also check out the book suggestions.
Do any of you add Bible to the history (Gen-Deut) series or do most of you use just the book as is? Thanks!!! 😀
November 23, 2011 at 1:15 am
sheraz
Participant
I am using the SCM Module 1 which combines both Bible and history as well as the geography. The lessons are set up as 3 times a week Bible, 1 time geography, and 1 time history. The first few weeks are very Bible intensive as you lead into the Ancient Egypt history. This method works well, because it lets the kiddos think about the history and process it before you add more.  What are you using?
November 29, 2011 at 2:59 pm
pbjmom
Member
Sheraz – that’s what I’m using also. I like it, but maybe am just overthinking things. I want to make sure my son (2nd gr) is retaining it – my daughter (5th gr) seems to be doing fine. It’s gone well this week, but he needs prompts to remember what he’s just heard. After we finish a section and I ask him to tell some of it back to me, he draws a blank. I don’t think it helps that his sister likes to answer everything – then she feels bad b/c I won’t let her answer all the time so I can get something from him (with her going “can I tell it?!” while he’s trying to think of what to say), and she feels bad because she’s not challenged enough. I wonder at times if doing it with them together is best or not.
November 29, 2011 at 3:27 pm
sheraz
Participant
I misread your original post – I thought he was the 5th grader. Ooops! I still think that this skill is one that he is working hard to develop, and he is still pretty young, Keep it up and have the trust that he is getting it. The hands-on stuff that both Sarah and I recommeneded really help them as they are developing their skills. It is okay to use them and any other thing that will help him remember. There are no CM police to come hunt you down, lol. It does take patience, and a lot of un-schooling on OUR part. I feel the pressure to have my children be able to perform on command (a la public school) and when they can’t/don’t I start to doubt the process. But, if I remember that I was lead to CM after much prayer and thought, it helps me to trust.
He will get it. Maybe you can let them literally have days to narrate – dd MWF, ds TTH for history, and ds MWF, dd TTH for science or literature etc. Maybe she could start the narration and he can finish it. If she is modelling good solid narrations for him, he will only benefit from them. Maybe you could take a turn as well.
Seriously, try doing the drawing and explaination of it for narration, write down the explaination. Give him a visual of a character’s name to listen for, a Bible coloring page pertaining to the story. It REALLY DOES help. They focus on the task and listen at the same time.   Sonja has mentioned that she sets up a flannel board story set for each story as she reads. It is very visual and her dd can stay focused on the characters as the story progresses. All these help.
The Burgess books are also very inexpensive through Amazon and I think are a little easier and more interesting to young readers since the pages have bigger fonts, the occasional illustration and the chapters are “doable” for a younger reader which increases their confidence. The Mother Nature thing doesn’t bother my children – they are well aware that God created all, and know that the Mother Nature phrase is just a name for the “laws” of Nature that are in place when God created the earth. There are “natural laws” to keep the order that God created. =)

December 2, 2011 at 6:07 am
Wings2fly
Participant
How are things going now, Amy? I hope they have picked up for you. Let us know if we can help any more.
December 9, 2011 at 10:41 pm
pbjmom
Member
Thanks everyone for all your input! I started having them draw small pictures of what was happening in the stoy to help them remember what was going on, and I think that helped a lot. Will continue to try that, as well as several of the other great narration ideas you shared – and some from the scm link from sherax – thanks for all that! I also ordered the Ancient Egypt book you mentioned – they had it on paperbackswap – yay!
I also liked the idea of having them take turns (different days) to narrate so he doesn’t feel his sister breathing down his neck to contribute. I will check out the Burgess books as well. Thanks to all of you for your help! I think I just need to adjust my expectations a little. And remember to have fun with them! 🙂